Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional how patient am I supposed to be?

Now DS principal has ignored two emails from me (he is working--summer school). In the last one I asked him to meet with me to discuss abusive/retaliatory behavior and referenced ADA and 504 and wanting to make sure things are "better for everyone" next year. It's been a REALLY long time since he promised to look into it (upon first request) and a fairly long time since I emailed again asking about appealing the grade.

NP has ignored two emails and a phone message, asking her when this "interview about developmental questions" is going to happen (fwiw, she told me she would have report to me by May 19--I'm not being pushy--and I've paid her big bucks out of pocket).

I called district office today and requested DS full educational record, including grades, test scores, disciplinary action, etc.

Are there any rules about how the district has to respond to me? All emails from the last two weeks of school were unanswered--school's out for two weeks now.

Can they do this? Because the situation is so dicey (with all the nepotism and my relationship with the district gifted program), it all makes me really uneasy. Seriously--I'm considering an attorney consult. There is a special ed attorney who has many mutual friends with me and does initial consult for free.

I'm kind of (really) tired of this...waiting. I've done every single thing I can think to do. If it had just been the "DS nearly tanked out of 6th grade" issue (he didn't) then I could probably relax but that horribly ugly, damaging teacher has kind of put the fear of God in me and I'm feeling like protecting DS at whatever cost from future disasters.

Before the attorney, I would:

--try to get the principal on the phone (some people just don't do email well), noting time and date of the phone call attempt in your communication log (you have one, yes? if not, start documenting everything in writing, in ink, with dates)

--if that doesn't work, send a paper letter that outlines the needs and asks him to respond by such-and-such a date. Copy the person in charge of special ed in the district and/or the superintendent, and put the CC line at the bottom of the letter so the principal knows they've been copied.

--then, yes, outside help. Do realize that once YOU have an attorney THEY will start bringing one to meetings, too, and it can become more confrontational on the whole. You may want to go to an educational advocate instead as first line of defense.

Sorry about the NP. Hang in there and persist. I think it will be worth the trouble in the end.

I agree with the steps DeeDee stated above. Try to phone, send a paper letter before you seek outside help.

If it's not too much hassle it may also be worth it to send the paper letter via 2-3 day mail (in a one of those big cardboard envelopes).

This is the mail equivalent of the restroom key chained to a giant log - it makes the letter harder to ignore or misplace (as a bonus you can get delivery confirmation - which is a great entree to a phone call - "my letter was delivered on XYZ date ...".).

Yes. It feels like overkill-- but it gets everyone's attention.

The perception (and it's just a perception) I get from reading advocacy stories is that some schools will try to "run out the clock" on parents who are advocating for anything different from the one size fits all "cheeseburger, cheeseburger, cheeseburger" model of education.

Does it make sense that every time from now you you have direct communication to (politely) conclude the discussion with a specific list of "next steps" each with a corresponding date?

You want to use certified mail, return receipt requested.

Then you get the little green card with a signature or a signature stamp.

What Jon said

And then do you staple the little green card to a photocopy of the letter that was sent (in case you ever do need to get an attorney involved?)

If you don't want to go the mail route, you could also take the letter into the office and have the secretary date stamp it as received, then ask her/him to give you a photocopy with the date stamp on it. This gets people's attention as well.

I punch the little green card with my two-hole punch and put in into the file with a copy of the original letter.

Otherwise the little green card will get lost or mingled with all of the other little green cards.

You can also scan the little green card and put it into the electronic file with a scanned copy of the original letter.

Or take a picture of the little green card and email it to yourself. I do this with everything now. Gmail is forever.

On my mind:

1--I need the NP report so I know what is going on and what to do about it.

2--I want to engage with advocacy agency but feel like NP report is important piece of that.

3--I would not "lawyer up" on the 504 issues because I don't think they were intentional. If the principal is unwilling to discuss a grade appeal in the art class, I think I will escalate to district admin--and that's where I might be willing to consult attorney. In this case, it is really the principle of the thing--that man actually, emotionally abused and damaged my son, retaliated against him (me?), and exercised "power over" in a truly disgusting way. At the very least, I want acknowledgement from the administration. I have mountains of documentation and none of it reflects well on the teacher. I would even consider suing the teacher for malpractice--I can't tell you how outside of my personal comfort zone that is but I want something about this situation to be just. I can't let an adult in a professional role abuse my son, get away with it, and just pretend it didn't happen. When I described the situation to my therapist, she said it was sadistic.

4--I would like to begin working on a(nother) letter requesting special ed eval but I need the NP report.

5--I don't think we can get private speech/language services in my city. I think he needs his pragmatic language ability evaluated. My spec ed friend said that "pragmatics are the hot new trend" and that if he is evaluated via school they will "take a look at that." After his bizarre OT observation, I have no confidence in the school's approach--I want a referral and will travel where I need to but we need HELP (i.e. NP report).

Yep.


You can start on this now, by describing who he is and what has been happening to him. The NP information will inform this but you also have a lot of reasons why you need advocacy.


Yes. I would keep this on a tight timeline--if Principal doesn't respond to the paper letter, I'd be in contact with district, evidence in hand. If they decline to act, then advocate. Then lawyer. If it gets that far you should also be actively shopping for alternatives.


Nope. Get out From Emotions to Advocacy. You do not need a dx to support this. Instead of naming a dx, you need to name all the different things he struggles with, you can cite horrid things the teachers have said, and ask for the eval. Start the clock on this ASAP!

You can mention that you are pursuing private diagostic information that may inform their process. But start the clock.


Much depends on the capabilities of the school SLP who evaluates. We have seen good and bad.


I would ask a lot of questions of the NP in that meeting-- what therapies are likely to be maximally useful to DS? Who locally has the expertise to provide them? Is there help paying for them? Does NP know an advocate who can help? In short, pick their brain not only about exactly what diagnostic results mean, but also about recommended next steps.

The NP's report should also include next steps framed (preferably: insisted upon) in a way that the school can use them. If it doesn't when you see it, ask for them to be included because they are your best tool for getting the IEP in place properly.

Okay, thanks for helping me organize thoughts.

I had a DOH moment just now and remembered the university has a Speech/Language/Hearing master's program. I called and he can be evaluated very inexpensively and they said they will definitely look at social communication and expression, sounded knowledgeable.

I guess I should begin to work on the letter, and call the advocacy agency.

eco, I'll second all of DeeDee's wise advise. Also mention that you don't need to be patient in the sense that you sit and wait, but otoh a different type of patience is often needed when supporting a child with challenges such as you're facing - patience in understanding that it's not an easy road to follow and that there are going to be many times when it feels like you're going nowhere because of one particular situation, yet there's a lot of progress being made and you are actually getting somewhere, just not in the exact direction you'd mapped out. I hope that makes sense!

One thing that our advocate advised was important to always do when using written communication - request a response by a specific date (10 business days out usually is a fair timeframe). At the stage you're at with the principal communications, I'd also cc whoever is in charge of SPED/504 in your school district on the next communication.

Most importantly, I'd contact the advocate *now*. They should be able to advise you on all of this, and may have local knowledge that will be helpful that those of us on this forum wouldn't have.

Hang in there!

polarbear

ps - we've had some extremely difficult dealings with our schools, but never had to resort to sending a certified letter - we simply used email for written communications with the note to respond by a certain date. You can make the "response" request very specific also - say "We would like to have a ____ (date, decision, answer yes/no, whatever) by June 15" for example - tell them what type of response you are specifically looking for.

pps - re the neurospych - does she have an office and an office admin person? Secretary, person who answers the phone, person who runs the front desk etc? If she does, go through them with the request for the report and appointment, rather than leaving a message for the np.

Can I state what I believe he needs in the letter? I want functional behavior analysis. Am I allowed to say that?

Things are happening around here.

--Called, did phone intake, am receiving papers in mail to schedule language eval.

--email MPACT advocate. She called me within minutes to say she will read my email and then set a time to talk. She said she'd also email me an "action plan" to discuss. It was just a 60 second phone call and all about logistics so why am I crying? Maybe because somebody IRL may be able to help?

This whole thing has pretty much unraveled me. Thank you all for coaching.

Pretty much. I had a similar reaction the first time one of my DD's therapists sent an email to "team DD." I completely lost it at the idea that she actually had a team, on her side.

Best of luck to you - I hope it's all up from here.

Here I go again, this made me cry, too! I can't/won't/don't understand why it's so hard for people to see children as needing help instead of being a huge bother (I guess I'm glad of that). This business is not for wimps.

Thank you for the good wishes.

This should be part of the letter requesting an eval, certainly.

As for the tears-- this is more sentimental than I would usually get, but a wise friend said to me that every tear you shed fighting for your child is a jewel on your shield.

Yes, not for wimps. But you are strong enough to do this, and getting tougher by the minute.

Keep hanging in-- it will not always be like this.

Advocate sent a really long email with a lot of resources. We are going to talk via phone next week. She's asked me for a lot of information--overwhelming. Here is a snippet:

"Do you have a current copy of X 504 Plan, also is there a behavior plan in place for in school?
When we talk on the phone I would like to know more about what type of things he struggles with in school. As in what things are hard for him to do. Does he have trouble with communication in expressing his wants and needs, what classes does he seem to have the most trouble in. In your email you stated the school has written you with behavior concerns they have had. Can you email me a time line and brief snapshot of those emails?

Before we talk I would like if you could, write down a list of all the concerns you have for X in the school, also a list of goals you have for him, and what solutions you feel would solve the current problems. Also if it is possible ask X to do the same thing. We will go over these list when we talk."

So I need to organize and weed out the mountain of email from teachers. Maybe highlight comments that illustrate their frustration with his social/behavioral stuff? I think most of my concerns are in two areas: EF and social communication. Maybe make a couple of lists with headings? The EF is easy to talk about--lost assignments, failure to complete assignments, rushing when not engaged, etc.

Wildly inconsistent performance in classes--doing well for awhile and then suddenly checking out...is that a thing, and how do I articulate it?

The social is much more difficult to capture. Should I look for the comments about his negativity, "snarky" comments, disinterest, etc? It's all so non-specific. Except for the rambling and upsetting emails from the art teacher--should I include those? I am conceptualizing the art teacher as an "outlier." His other teachers each had a specific communication style--and often said similar things, in different ways--but were not lunatics.

She asked if he has a behavior plan and he doesn't. I'm not sure what a behavior plan is, exactly--and I don't know if it would help with his subtle "annoy the heck out of everyone" behaviors. I didn't realize we could have one with 504, but a friend says her child has one--but he has much more severe classroom behavioral issues.

Just to revisit the idea of how to get their attention if you are being ignored. We were at a different stage - ready to request OOD placement - but this is the protocol we followed.

1. Email to IEP coordinator (already at district level due to inexcusable behavior by principal - YMMV) requesting immediate meeting to discuss change of placement. No response.

2. Email to district's Director of Pupil Personnel Services including a copy of email from #1 requesting immediate meeting to discuss change of placement. No response.

3. Certified letter to Director of Pupil Personnel Services including hard copies of emails from #1 and #2. No response.

4. Certified letter to Director of Pupil Personnel services, certified letter to Superintendent, regular mail to both, personal delivery to superintendent's office and email to both, each including copies of prior communications, reference to date and signature of delivery and copy of little green card from #3. No reponse.

5. Hire spec Ed attorney (best in state - someone who I am told strikes fear into the hearts of districts). He sends a letter advising that he has been retained to represent us and requests DD's file. Immediate meeting scheduled. District offers OOD placement.


We found out later that behind the scenes there was all sorts of scurrying to make arrangements for OOD. We were requesting a rather unorthodox placement and they were working on making it happen but superintendent was vetoing the plan so they were working to come up with the alternative that was eventually proposed. We were not told any of this until a year later though.

HTH

eco, it sounds like your advocate is trying to do a thorough job of understanding your ds' needs, and that's *wonderful*.


I'm sure that the list of info she's asking for you combined with the list of resources she's sent feel huge and overwhelming, but I'd keep two things in mind:

1) Just tackle it one tiny chunk at a time. Don't get stressed out over the entire amount requested or the large amount of research you may have suddenly opened up for you, just take it all one step at a time and you'll get through it. I'd put together the list she's asking for first, so that she has the info to review before you talk. The info on resources may prioritize itself to a certain extent once you've talked to the advocate.

2) While it's looking like a huge task to pull the information together today, it's something that you need to do and that you'll keep with you and refer to again and again and again over the years as you advocate. So it's time well invested. You will most likely find that it's info your ds will appreciate having at the point in time he begins to advocate for himself.


I agree that it's a great idea to get input from your ds. We found that including our ds' input was invaluable for a number of reasons: first, the school wants to hear from the student, not just the parent. When students' are younger, they really can't provide much in the way of meaningful input, and your ds is still at an age where he needs a large amount of support/interpretation/forward thinking from you when advocating, but he's also at an age where he has quite a bit of self-awareness (possibly... unless it's somewhat limited by his disability), and that is important to take into account. It's also helpful to have his input simply because it gives you more information (and very relevant, useful information), plus it gives him a voice, which can be very empowering. It also helps start the process of moving from all-parent advocating to eventual self-advocacy.


I'd print out *all* the emails (or save them to one file or file folder), then highlight comments that illustrate your concerns. I'd also note - EF issues are easy to see and understand (somewhat), so yes, that will be easy to talk about. Chances are you'll find that it will be the easier piece of the equation to get accommodations for too, because these are very common challenges.


You just articulated it. If you can, try to correlate it to something going on - do you see patterns - for instance, refusal to do a specific type of work, or checking out at a certain point in the semester or time of day, etc. If you don't see that yet, that's ok - that's why you're pursuing a private eval/opinion. You don't have to have all the answers yet, but you do need to be sure to give the advocate a list of all of your concerns.


I'd include all of this. The advocate will help you sift through the totality of your information and piece together what is necessary and helpful in advocating.


I was once told, many years before I had children in school, by my friends who already had children in school - there's always going to be *one* teacher that is simply.... beyond annoying. I'm guessing the art teacher is that teacher for your ds, and I hope he's the last You need to be able to articulate what happened in his class, why it was an example of your ds' disability impacting his performance combined with a teacher not recognizing the disability. Past that, you have to let go of calling him a lunatic anywhere but here Which I realize you wouldn't do lol. Just keep the advocacy focused on the disability and needs of your ds, and try to take the emotion due to last year's situation with the art teacher out of the equation. Advocacy works best when you stay focused on future needs, focus on factual info, and keep everything even in terms of emotion. It's alright to get emotional with your *advocate* but try to keep the emotion out of how you build your advocacy case and out of discussions with the school.


I can't answer any of your questions about the behavior plan or whether or not you can get it with a 504 in your school district - but your advocate *can* answer those questions. In addition to the questions your advocate has asked you to answer, put together the list of questions you have for your advocate - in writing - because it's easy to forget a question here or there when having a discussion, especially when there is so much to consider and a lot of raw emotion involved.

As overwhelming as it all seems, you're doing all the right things, and headed in a good direction, so hang in there!

Best wishes,

polarbear

thank you, I copied the list of the tests--if you want me to delete the rest, let me know. I think school did the VMI and it was "above average" but even so, I don't necessarily trust that info--bc she said his hands were shaking. That doesn't seem normal, and sounds physically exhausting.

As for NP--I believe she only did WISC V and ADOS during test, but sent out BRIEF, ABAS, and something else I don't remember. Surveys, not actual assessments, I believe?


OOD is not an option--there's nothing any better here or near, private or parochial. Essentially, it's this program or his assigned school. I'm not 100% opposed to regular school but he is, and also not sure what they'd do with him since he was accelerated, especially the math piece. He's not super math-y but did fine in pre-algebra and is scheduled for high school algebra I this year. I think the regular MS has an "accelerated math" class but don't think that means different material, just faster pace. I've read about your battle with your daughter's school and was horrified. Our situation isn't nearly so extreme--for one, he doesn't have any (identified, severe) learning disabilities and also is not being mistreated at anything near that level.

this makes a lot of sense. Chunk it. Thanks.

I like the idea of talking to DS, ideally, but the "self-awareness" piece seems to be quite missing from his "databank" (as he calls it--ha--see, that's part of the problem!) I might ask him anyhow and see if his answers reflect the lack of self-awareness because I suspect they might.

The patterns I see are related to medication, medication changes and how those medications behave in the body, how they affect his appetite and mood, when they kick in and when they begin to fade...and also, believe it or not--I just recently realized that his worst "sudden tank outs" coincided with seasonal allergies! That probably makes ME sound like a lunatic but the first time was in fall during peak of ragweed assault and the second was in early spring (tree pollen). He's not been tested for allergens but is really miserable with allergies during tree pollen and ragweed seasons--also allergic to grass pollen and mold, I think, but is not nearly as miserable during those high counts. Is this a THING? Should I have him tested? He takes Zyrtec and it helps but does not cure. His eyes get crazy swollen and soooooo lethargic. Another odd physical issue is that he overheats very easily and pretty much melts down if he is hot. I am pretty sure the school won't evaluate for these things. haha

At least the lack of control on behalf of that teacher makes it easy to illustrate how DS disability impacted his education. His horrid emails pretty much describe a kid with ADHD, practically bullet by bullet. And he did have 504 for that, and much communication from me to the teacher, so it wasn't as if it was some sort of unsolved mystery.

I will not call the teacher a lunatic anywhere but here. The word came to me like a bolt of lightning and was very satisfying to type. :P

thank you so much for you help!

Eco I was not suggesting that you explore OOD. I was explaining how the progression from email to certified letter to spec Ed attorney worked in our case.

Sometimes I think I'm as literal as my son.

I appreciate your info. Can't believe you had to go through all that--I hope I don't, bc I don't think I have enough resilience (and my son's needs are not as great--he is not out of the box gifted). I've about decided to let the "art teacher is a lunatic" situation go and just keep looking forward.

The DKEFS is an actual standardized performance test of EF functioning and breaks down the difficulties. DD had a big problem with shift/inhibition. So if you don't get your questions answered with the testing that was done you may want to pursue that test or ask about the complex figure test. DD bombed this as well even though she hit the ceiling of the test on matrix reasoning. Her figure was "correct" but the way she copied it was amazingly disorganized. She did fine on visual-motor tests so it has to be an EF issue (poor planning/organization).

Two thoughts:

1) Regarding OOD... it is often recommended, when advocating, to have or cultivate a backup plan or "Plan B", which would typically involve a graceful exit to another learning environment, whether another school/district, or homeschooling. If you see no alternatives, then by default you may need to escalate, in a step-wise approach, to get your son's needs met. This is not to say that one strategy is better than another, it is just a high level summary. There are posters on the forum who've used either approach... and even a combination of both approaches, over the span of their child's educational journey.

2) Regarding the use of words like lunatic to describe others... the posters attempting to assist you would tend to understand the rant/frustration expressed in this word choice (and therefore some may consider the forums to be a "safe place" to vent), however a much larger audience reads the forums and:
- may be able to identify you, your son, the teacher from posts
- may tend to form an impression of parents of gifted kids, as a whole, based on what is read in the forums

Some may say the teacher was "old school", having entered the profession before much was known about LD, 2e, school psychology, etc. Others may say he was "ignorant" of facts about LD, 2e, psychology, etc. Unfortunately, training in these areas may not be part of professional development of all teachers across disciplines, it may be reserved to specialists in these areas. Likewise, many of the posters on the forums, despite various credentials, did not have depth of understanding in these areas... but increased their knowledge once it affected them in a personal way, such as through a family member.

Thanks, that sounds like a good way to get info.

Yes, I follow. We have Plan B in place.


"Old school" or "ignorant" would not capture or excuse verbally abusing a child and terrifying him, deliberately misleading the parent, and behaviors clearly driven by negative emotional response to my child. I am comfortable in my word choice, although it was meant to bring a little levity to the conversation. Some and others may say what they like: they are entitled.

I could (but won't) provide some evidence of why a lack of training and/or experience was not the issue at hand. Suffice to say, the teacher had many years with gifted students AND special needs (not gifted) and most certainly encountered more than one 2E child. We aren't the first to have had an unfortunate experience--funny what you learn when you start talking to people. I say "shine a light on it" but it sounds like you don't think that's the best approach. To each his own.

Let the record reflect: The words chosen and opinions expressed in my posts are purely my own and in no way reflect the word-choices and opinions of other parents of gifted children.

Understood. This article from the Davidson Database discusses Constructive vs. Destructive humor.

My posts consistently shine a light on practices adverse to gifted, and detrimental treatment of the gifted.