Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional how patient am I supposed to be?

This should be part of the letter requesting an eval, certainly.

As for the tears-- this is more sentimental than I would usually get, but a wise friend said to me that every tear you shed fighting for your child is a jewel on your shield.

Yes, not for wimps. But you are strong enough to do this, and getting tougher by the minute.

Keep hanging in-- it will not always be like this.

Advocate sent a really long email with a lot of resources. We are going to talk via phone next week. She's asked me for a lot of information--overwhelming. Here is a snippet:

"Do you have a current copy of X 504 Plan, also is there a behavior plan in place for in school?
When we talk on the phone I would like to know more about what type of things he struggles with in school. As in what things are hard for him to do. Does he have trouble with communication in expressing his wants and needs, what classes does he seem to have the most trouble in. In your email you stated the school has written you with behavior concerns they have had. Can you email me a time line and brief snapshot of those emails?

Before we talk I would like if you could, write down a list of all the concerns you have for X in the school, also a list of goals you have for him, and what solutions you feel would solve the current problems. Also if it is possible ask X to do the same thing. We will go over these list when we talk."

So I need to organize and weed out the mountain of email from teachers. Maybe highlight comments that illustrate their frustration with his social/behavioral stuff? I think most of my concerns are in two areas: EF and social communication. Maybe make a couple of lists with headings? The EF is easy to talk about--lost assignments, failure to complete assignments, rushing when not engaged, etc.

Wildly inconsistent performance in classes--doing well for awhile and then suddenly checking out...is that a thing, and how do I articulate it?

The social is much more difficult to capture. Should I look for the comments about his negativity, "snarky" comments, disinterest, etc? It's all so non-specific. Except for the rambling and upsetting emails from the art teacher--should I include those? I am conceptualizing the art teacher as an "outlier." His other teachers each had a specific communication style--and often said similar things, in different ways--but were not lunatics.

She asked if he has a behavior plan and he doesn't. I'm not sure what a behavior plan is, exactly--and I don't know if it would help with his subtle "annoy the heck out of everyone" behaviors. I didn't realize we could have one with 504, but a friend says her child has one--but he has much more severe classroom behavioral issues.

Just to revisit the idea of how to get their attention if you are being ignored. We were at a different stage - ready to request OOD placement - but this is the protocol we followed.

1. Email to IEP coordinator (already at district level due to inexcusable behavior by principal - YMMV) requesting immediate meeting to discuss change of placement. No response.

2. Email to district's Director of Pupil Personnel Services including a copy of email from #1 requesting immediate meeting to discuss change of placement. No response.

3. Certified letter to Director of Pupil Personnel Services including hard copies of emails from #1 and #2. No response.

4. Certified letter to Director of Pupil Personnel services, certified letter to Superintendent, regular mail to both, personal delivery to superintendent's office and email to both, each including copies of prior communications, reference to date and signature of delivery and copy of little green card from #3. No reponse.

5. Hire spec Ed attorney (best in state - someone who I am told strikes fear into the hearts of districts). He sends a letter advising that he has been retained to represent us and requests DD's file. Immediate meeting scheduled. District offers OOD placement.


We found out later that behind the scenes there was all sorts of scurrying to make arrangements for OOD. We were requesting a rather unorthodox placement and they were working on making it happen but superintendent was vetoing the plan so they were working to come up with the alternative that was eventually proposed. We were not told any of this until a year later though.

HTH

eco, it sounds like your advocate is trying to do a thorough job of understanding your ds' needs, and that's *wonderful*.


I'm sure that the list of info she's asking for you combined with the list of resources she's sent feel huge and overwhelming, but I'd keep two things in mind:

1) Just tackle it one tiny chunk at a time. Don't get stressed out over the entire amount requested or the large amount of research you may have suddenly opened up for you, just take it all one step at a time and you'll get through it. I'd put together the list she's asking for first, so that she has the info to review before you talk. The info on resources may prioritize itself to a certain extent once you've talked to the advocate.

2) While it's looking like a huge task to pull the information together today, it's something that you need to do and that you'll keep with you and refer to again and again and again over the years as you advocate. So it's time well invested. You will most likely find that it's info your ds will appreciate having at the point in time he begins to advocate for himself.


I agree that it's a great idea to get input from your ds. We found that including our ds' input was invaluable for a number of reasons: first, the school wants to hear from the student, not just the parent. When students' are younger, they really can't provide much in the way of meaningful input, and your ds is still at an age where he needs a large amount of support/interpretation/forward thinking from you when advocating, but he's also at an age where he has quite a bit of self-awareness (possibly... unless it's somewhat limited by his disability), and that is important to take into account. It's also helpful to have his input simply because it gives you more information (and very relevant, useful information), plus it gives him a voice, which can be very empowering. It also helps start the process of moving from all-parent advocating to eventual self-advocacy.


I'd print out *all* the emails (or save them to one file or file folder), then highlight comments that illustrate your concerns. I'd also note - EF issues are easy to see and understand (somewhat), so yes, that will be easy to talk about. Chances are you'll find that it will be the easier piece of the equation to get accommodations for too, because these are very common challenges.


You just articulated it. If you can, try to correlate it to something going on - do you see patterns - for instance, refusal to do a specific type of work, or checking out at a certain point in the semester or time of day, etc. If you don't see that yet, that's ok - that's why you're pursuing a private eval/opinion. You don't have to have all the answers yet, but you do need to be sure to give the advocate a list of all of your concerns.


I'd include all of this. The advocate will help you sift through the totality of your information and piece together what is necessary and helpful in advocating.


I was once told, many years before I had children in school, by my friends who already had children in school - there's always going to be *one* teacher that is simply.... beyond annoying. I'm guessing the art teacher is that teacher for your ds, and I hope he's the last You need to be able to articulate what happened in his class, why it was an example of your ds' disability impacting his performance combined with a teacher not recognizing the disability. Past that, you have to let go of calling him a lunatic anywhere but here Which I realize you wouldn't do lol. Just keep the advocacy focused on the disability and needs of your ds, and try to take the emotion due to last year's situation with the art teacher out of the equation. Advocacy works best when you stay focused on future needs, focus on factual info, and keep everything even in terms of emotion. It's alright to get emotional with your *advocate* but try to keep the emotion out of how you build your advocacy case and out of discussions with the school.


I can't answer any of your questions about the behavior plan or whether or not you can get it with a 504 in your school district - but your advocate *can* answer those questions. In addition to the questions your advocate has asked you to answer, put together the list of questions you have for your advocate - in writing - because it's easy to forget a question here or there when having a discussion, especially when there is so much to consider and a lot of raw emotion involved.

As overwhelming as it all seems, you're doing all the right things, and headed in a good direction, so hang in there!

Best wishes,

polarbear

thank you, I copied the list of the tests--if you want me to delete the rest, let me know. I think school did the VMI and it was "above average" but even so, I don't necessarily trust that info--bc she said his hands were shaking. That doesn't seem normal, and sounds physically exhausting.

As for NP--I believe she only did WISC V and ADOS during test, but sent out BRIEF, ABAS, and something else I don't remember. Surveys, not actual assessments, I believe?


OOD is not an option--there's nothing any better here or near, private or parochial. Essentially, it's this program or his assigned school. I'm not 100% opposed to regular school but he is, and also not sure what they'd do with him since he was accelerated, especially the math piece. He's not super math-y but did fine in pre-algebra and is scheduled for high school algebra I this year. I think the regular MS has an "accelerated math" class but don't think that means different material, just faster pace. I've read about your battle with your daughter's school and was horrified. Our situation isn't nearly so extreme--for one, he doesn't have any (identified, severe) learning disabilities and also is not being mistreated at anything near that level.

this makes a lot of sense. Chunk it. Thanks.

I like the idea of talking to DS, ideally, but the "self-awareness" piece seems to be quite missing from his "databank" (as he calls it--ha--see, that's part of the problem!) I might ask him anyhow and see if his answers reflect the lack of self-awareness because I suspect they might.

The patterns I see are related to medication, medication changes and how those medications behave in the body, how they affect his appetite and mood, when they kick in and when they begin to fade...and also, believe it or not--I just recently realized that his worst "sudden tank outs" coincided with seasonal allergies! That probably makes ME sound like a lunatic but the first time was in fall during peak of ragweed assault and the second was in early spring (tree pollen). He's not been tested for allergens but is really miserable with allergies during tree pollen and ragweed seasons--also allergic to grass pollen and mold, I think, but is not nearly as miserable during those high counts. Is this a THING? Should I have him tested? He takes Zyrtec and it helps but does not cure. His eyes get crazy swollen and soooooo lethargic. Another odd physical issue is that he overheats very easily and pretty much melts down if he is hot. I am pretty sure the school won't evaluate for these things. haha

At least the lack of control on behalf of that teacher makes it easy to illustrate how DS disability impacted his education. His horrid emails pretty much describe a kid with ADHD, practically bullet by bullet. And he did have 504 for that, and much communication from me to the teacher, so it wasn't as if it was some sort of unsolved mystery.

I will not call the teacher a lunatic anywhere but here. The word came to me like a bolt of lightning and was very satisfying to type. :P

thank you so much for you help!

Eco I was not suggesting that you explore OOD. I was explaining how the progression from email to certified letter to spec Ed attorney worked in our case.

Sometimes I think I'm as literal as my son.

I appreciate your info. Can't believe you had to go through all that--I hope I don't, bc I don't think I have enough resilience (and my son's needs are not as great--he is not out of the box gifted). I've about decided to let the "art teacher is a lunatic" situation go and just keep looking forward.

The DKEFS is an actual standardized performance test of EF functioning and breaks down the difficulties. DD had a big problem with shift/inhibition. So if you don't get your questions answered with the testing that was done you may want to pursue that test or ask about the complex figure test. DD bombed this as well even though she hit the ceiling of the test on matrix reasoning. Her figure was "correct" but the way she copied it was amazingly disorganized. She did fine on visual-motor tests so it has to be an EF issue (poor planning/organization).

Two thoughts:

1) Regarding OOD... it is often recommended, when advocating, to have or cultivate a backup plan or "Plan B", which would typically involve a graceful exit to another learning environment, whether another school/district, or homeschooling. If you see no alternatives, then by default you may need to escalate, in a step-wise approach, to get your son's needs met. This is not to say that one strategy is better than another, it is just a high level summary. There are posters on the forum who've used either approach... and even a combination of both approaches, over the span of their child's educational journey.

2) Regarding the use of words like lunatic to describe others... the posters attempting to assist you would tend to understand the rant/frustration expressed in this word choice (and therefore some may consider the forums to be a "safe place" to vent), however a much larger audience reads the forums and:
- may be able to identify you, your son, the teacher from posts
- may tend to form an impression of parents of gifted kids, as a whole, based on what is read in the forums

Some may say the teacher was "old school", having entered the profession before much was known about LD, 2e, school psychology, etc. Others may say he was "ignorant" of facts about LD, 2e, psychology, etc. Unfortunately, training in these areas may not be part of professional development of all teachers across disciplines, it may be reserved to specialists in these areas. Likewise, many of the posters on the forums, despite various credentials, did not have depth of understanding in these areas... but increased their knowledge once it affected them in a personal way, such as through a family member.

Thanks, that sounds like a good way to get info.

Yes, I follow. We have Plan B in place.


"Old school" or "ignorant" would not capture or excuse verbally abusing a child and terrifying him, deliberately misleading the parent, and behaviors clearly driven by negative emotional response to my child. I am comfortable in my word choice, although it was meant to bring a little levity to the conversation. Some and others may say what they like: they are entitled.

I could (but won't) provide some evidence of why a lack of training and/or experience was not the issue at hand. Suffice to say, the teacher had many years with gifted students AND special needs (not gifted) and most certainly encountered more than one 2E child. We aren't the first to have had an unfortunate experience--funny what you learn when you start talking to people. I say "shine a light on it" but it sounds like you don't think that's the best approach. To each his own.

Let the record reflect: The words chosen and opinions expressed in my posts are purely my own and in no way reflect the word-choices and opinions of other parents of gifted children.