Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Long awaited report for dd8

"...presented as a child who is struggling with self-regulation and not patient with mental activities that require longer engagement...during VCI was restless and fidgety,...easily distracted with both visual and auditory stimuli...frustration and fatigue...sensory processing and regulation of activity level and attention...strong processing speed and well-developed fine-motor skills...suggest parents consider expanding eval."

VCI 112 RS/SS/%
Similarities 16/11/63
Vocab 33/14/91
(Comprehension)15/9/37
(Information) 12/9/37
Word Reasoning 13/12/75

PRI 112
Block Design 22/10/50
Picture Concepts 10/7/16
Matrix Reasoning 24/15/95
(Picture Completion) 21/11/63

WMI 107
Digit Span13/10/50
Letter-Number Sequencing 17/13/84
(Arithmetic) 19/11/63

PSI 121
Coding 39/12/75
Symbol Search 26/15/95
(Cancellation) 105/17/99

FSIQ 118

I made appt. with ped neuro to check out attn issues.

So, not really what I expected. But this tester is very experienced with gifted kids.

I guess a lot of the challenges I am seeing are related to other stuff (adoption/loss/trauma/sensory related to institutionalization?) and maybe inattentive ADHD.

So, overall I think we are coming closer to understanding dd, and psych had lots of suggestions for the right kind of teacher.

I think I got pretty spoiled by older dd who was much easier to figure out and accomodate (thanks in part to the wisdom and input of helpful posters to this forum!)

Even though it isn't exactly what I expected, still worth it. (Just hope dh agrees after writing that check!)
Edited to add: She also said lots about what an artistic, creative, funny kid dd is. But, I already knew that and those aren't the areas we need help with!

I'm not an expert but I'm noticing the differences between the subtests within the indexes. I.e. Matrix Reasoning vs. Picture Concepts, and Vocab vs. Comprehension and Information (although not as drastic). Hopefully aeh will weigh in.

ETA: Don't children with add/adhd generally have lower PSI and WMI? I could be wrong though....

Hmmm. I guess. Can't remember how psych explained that? And I shouldn't have specified inattentive ADHD...there is some impulsivity and hyperactivity (I still don't think that is quite the right word) as well.

Congrats on finally getting some info to sink your teeth into. Did the report include recommendations/accommodations? What did she mean by expanding the eval?

Sue

Yes achievement testing and social/emotional? No clue exactly what that would be? Will the neuropsych do achievement testing? I really don't feel like paying $220/hr to same psych and I think my insurance will pay for neuropsych.

My thoughts:

There is a little diversity across the VCI subtests. I suspect the evaluator felt it, which may be one of the reasons she did two additional subtests, and calculated the VCI without the two lowest scores. The tasks she did the most poorly on involve the most complex receptive language. (Word reasoning does, too, but has more repetition and clarification built into the task.)

There is a lot of diversity across the PRI subtests, with, interestingly, the greatest difference between the two fluid reasoning tasks (the two concrete-perceptual tasks are quite similar to each other, and different from both fluid reasoning tasks). Hard to tell whether the picture concept result is spurious, based on her testing behavior, or illustrative of a genuine difference between inductive and deductive reasoning. I'd love to see how she would do on the new WISC-V fluid reasoning index, which is composed of matrix reasoning and the new (to the WISC) figure weights. I evaluated a young person recently who was exceptionally strong on the FRI, but average on everything else; probably would not have been identified GT (2e, actually, in this case) on the WISC-IV, but was clearly so on the WISC-V.

WMI is the only reasonably consistent cluster, but, of course, relatively weak. Good reason to investigate attention further.

The scores in PSI climb steeply in order of administration, and in the extent to which they are symbolic tasks. Can't say which of those, if either, is part of the explanation. Some children with ADHD do rather well on timed tasks, as they respond with temporarily-improved attention to the stopwatch. Kids with EF issues (such as ADHD) also are often slow to adapt to a new task set, which might result in improved performance on later items of similar tasks (i.e., timed pencil-and-paper tasks, in this case, with very similar oral directions).

I don't have anything smart to add on the IQ piece (out of my depth) or know anything of your story, but I noticed your mention of trauma...are you considering a possible disorder of attachment?

I referred a very young (4) girl who I suspected was 2E for psych eval once and her IQ score was much different (lower) than I sensed in therapy. She ended up with a RAD dx (not severe) that the psych thought influenced the testing outcome. This child seemed brilliant to me, but unable to show it in testing.

If going to a neuropsych, I would say you want achievement, social-emotional, and EF (not just ADHD). Make sure the next evaluator has full access to this assessment, to avoid duplication/invalidation.

If you end up looking into RAD (now split into RAD and DSED-disinhibited social engagement disorder), you'll want a skilled child psychiatrist (which, sadly, are rarities), though some experienced psychs (mostly clinical) will be good for this, too.

Aeh thank you so much for your input. I have more relevant info re: some of your points but will wait until I am on computer instead of phone. Eco thankfully I am 100% certain not RAD but we can't take attachment for granted and I think I need to be way more intentional about implementing this kind of approach- Trust Based Relational Intervention: http://www.child.tcu.edu/Articles/TBRI%20Principles%20and%20Practices_Both.pdf

I am sure that she could benefit from a professional with experience with attachment and trauma, and I think I have found a psych who may be a good fit.

That looks like a really interesting approach. With my DS, I asked the neuropsych going in if there is a a way to distinguish between effects of trauma and autistic traits (bc my son seems very disconnected from his emotional state). Her answer was unclear to me but she seemed to say she approaches things from a "what can be measured" vs. a "underlying cause" angle. I may not have understood her, though.

She suggested a DBT type approach to help him A) identify feelings and B) learn better coping skills to help with self-regulation. He's already going to an EMDR therapist--there's a lot of mindfulness in that--and I think it's helping.

Trauma has so many odd physiological effects. When you said "and I shouldn't have specified inattentive ADHD...there is some impulsivity and hyperactivity (I still don't think that is quite the right word) as well" that resonated with me. My son has ADHD dx but it's never really fit, exactly--one reason I pursued testing with neuropsych w 2E experience. I have no doubt he also has some trauma-related issues--it seems difficult to tease out what's going on, exactly.

I hope the psych you found is a really good fit--it can be so helpful to have therapeutic support.