Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Ceiling effect on NWEA MAP math section?

My 12yo DD is currently in 7th grade at a private gifted school. The school says her NWEA math scores are not showing much improvement because she hit high levels early and she has continued to take the test twice a year and now there are few test questions left for her to take that are not extremely difficult, so this is keeping her score artificially low.

My big questions:

Anyone heard of a ceiling effect like this?

Does anyone know how I can have my DD take the NWEA MAP test on a new profile, so it won't start her where she left off? That should prove/disprove the school's explanation.

Anyone have another explanation?

In third grade DD scored a 255 in math (98th percentile for 5th graders (2011 norms)). In 7th grade, her scores are now only 262 (only 96th percentile in her grade).

The average score for her grade has risen from 228 to 260+ during this time, but there are only 4 kids in a higher math group than she.

We need her to score 99th percentile in math for a high school application... and I know she has learned a whole lot of math since 3rd grade!

Thanks.

That 3rd grade score is amazing, but the data from MAP would seem to suggest that there should be more room to show growth on the 6+ version of MAP: https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1nA_PlvjvwFTi5vMwRxlfmmVUJo63pfwn67ZAMHaV4oU

Where are they placing her in math? Exposure really matters with MAP testing.

That's really helpful. Thanks so much!

She took HS-level algebra last year and HS-level geometry this year.

Starting to really sound like she's not learning any math that would increase her scores, but I don't understand how she appears to be learning new material and yet her scores remain essentially the same. Especially when other students are still showing growth.

I keep asking the school to look into it but they don't seem to know where to start.

She showed some growth on the PSAT math section, going from 49 in gr6 to 54 in gr7 even though she didn't answer all the questions (she's slow at math!).

She's taking the ACT and SAT this spring, so that may help also.

But the MAP test is what the high school requires, so none of the rest matter for that.

I'm still thinking it would be interesting to have her take the test fresh (not on her existing profile) to see if there was a glitch somewhere...

The school's explanation is actually not totally bogus. In fact, if you take the MAP repeatedly, you do run out of higher-level items eventually, which can artificially flatten or lower your score. There is a fairly deep pool of items for middle percentile students, but not that many extremely advanced items. Once you've used them, they're out of your rotation for future administrations for several rounds. (I can't remember the exact lock-out period, sorry.) Re-setting her MAP history will take care of that problem, but will also result in re-setting her start point to one grade level below her nominal placement, which can also depress her apparent performance level, as she might not have enough items administered, to make it to her true level, if it's very far above grade placement.

Have you tried out-of-level testing on something other than the MAP? E.g., the ACTs.

Thanks for the replies.

At school she took HS-level algebra in 6th and HS-level geometry this year.

They thought her scores would go up when she moved to the 6+ version of MAP but it didn't happen much. Other kids are reporting scores much closer to the hard ceiling in the doc posted by Loy58 but many of them may not have hit high scores as early. Some did though. Hmmm.

DD's PSAT score rose from 49 in 6th to 54 in 7th (and she's slow and didn't answer everything). Her MAP scores actually put her higher in comparison to HS sophmores than the PSAT did, but MAP has no time limit.

So maybe she really has been kinda treading water the past couple of years? She does appear to be learning something!

She's doing the ACT and SAT this spring, so maybe that will be insightful, (although not relevant in any way to the high school admission requirements). Maybe it will help us figure out if she has gaps somewhere...

For the record, she's not passionate about math so it normally wouldn't matter, but she's passionate about science and some of the really elite programs require an astounding math score for entry.

AJAmom, your DD sounds like my DD9 - not passionate about math, but passionate about science, so I have had the identical concerns (so I keep an eye on her math progress, including on MAP).

FWIW, I'd love to hear others chime in about real-life scoring on the 6+ version (we are not there, yet). An anecdote - I have heard from some parents that their gifted students didn't transition well from 2-5 to 6+ version (scoring lower, not showing much growth), but I don't yet have a student taking 6+. aeh's comments are interesting (as always!). I did not know about the test bank items.

Yes, MAP has no time limit, so it may benefit cautious students or students with slower processing. The ACT and SAT might be useful if she doesn't find the time restrictions too much (but they might underestimate her abilities if she needed more time).

Based on the specific facts in your posts, I don't think that your DD is anywhere near the ceiling as to MAP. The scale on the MAP 6+ goes up to 320 and I would think that you would likely need to approach 290 to reach the "soft" ceiling. In your case, I would look at her highest score on the MAP 2-5 (compare that to the 255 in 3rd grade) and her lowest score on the MAP 6+ (compare that to the current/highest 262 ). I would also look at each of the 4 categories (Operations/Algebra, Real Complex Number Systems, Geometry and Statistics) to see if there are variability/weaknesses.

I have twin 6th graders who have taken the MAP 2-5 numerous times in elementary and the MAP 6+ twice this year. DS is scoring around that soft ceiling while DD is nearer your DD's range. Based on their observations, the questions on MAP 6+ are vastly different from the questions on MAP 2-5. A 255 on MAP 2-5 may be accurate, an underestimate or an overestimate depending on the particular child. Therefore, I would focus only on any stagnation of your DD's scores since starting the MAP 6+ (likely Fall of 6th but can be earlier). Furthermore, the highest level of questions that DS and DD encountered were vastly different due to the approximately 30 point difference in their scores. According to DS, as you approach the higher score levels, you get a lot of science application questions that require knowledge of mathematical formulas that he hadn't memorized but could often derive. In that sense, it is very different from the PSAT/SAT . However,your DD's PSAT score actually looks to be around the same ballpark as her MAP score.

Your school should be able to test your DD on a new profile. I do question their explanation because at a score of 262, I doubt that your DD has even hit the extremely difficult questions yet.

As DS and DD had high scores and either soft or hard ceiling issues, their MAP 2-5 scores (both math & reading) in elementary school did not follow a linear path and sometimes looked stagnant and sometimes even dropped a bit through the many administrations. However, if you stepped back, you can see growth over time and their general places on the charts. Anyhow, all their first MAP 6+ scores were at least as high as their highest MAP 2-5 scores although both kids told me that the MAP 6+ (especially the math section) was different and much harder compared to the MAP 2-5.

My dd is in 5th grade and took math6+ for the first time in the fall. We saw a slight drop in her score from the spring 2-5 test. That being said, her scores in 2-5 always dropped a bit from fall to spring. We are currently seeing the ceiling affect for ds (3rd grade on 2-5 MAP). His spring score was a 255. We also hit the ceilings with primary math on him. We are pushing for proper math placement next year as well as a switch to 6+

Thanks again.

We saw no real effect of the switch from the 2-5 test to the 6+ test. DD might have said it was harder, but her scores didn't show anything very significant.

All of her score reports only say "high" for each of the subskills in the section. I'll ask again if they can get a more detailed score report.

Apparently I should have not let the school tell me it was all ok when her scores just leveled out and didn't move much. Sigh.

Oh well. Can't go back in time, so I just need to figure out how to go forward.

If she can't get into that high school, then she can't. But either way, we still need to figure out why she either isn't learning new math or she can't show it on the test. Time for me to dig further.