Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Help, my 10th grader is failing algebra 2

Math has always been Drennen's thing. His peers refer to him as the math genius. All of a sudden this year he is failing Common Core Algebra 2. He does have dysgraphia (can't read his own handwriting), although it is just now having to be diagnosed. No accommodations without a diagnosis. His class only gets to use a calculator for graphing, and they refuse to see the handwriting as an issue. The main issue to Drennen is that he is being placed in a college prep algebra 3 class next year rather than the pre calculus honors class he feels he needs. The school does not see the big deal and feel as though this way they are not setting up for failure. Drennen does not see it that way, he sees it as they are getting in the way of him pursuing his dream (PHD in Astrophysics). Has anyone else been faced with this.

I just wanted to let you know that I am too dealing with almost this same thing. DS9 is currently in 4th grade doing 5th grade math via his gifted self contained class. he scores high on the tests but gets zeros on the work because he too has Dysgraphia and that messes up his numbers when he's "showing his work". I've had to fight hard to get him to do 6th grade math instead which should be implemented next quarter but we'll see. The only thing I can say is to fight for him, and don't stop. And you're not alone...so sorry you are dealing with this.

My son is sort-of in this situation. (He isn't dysgraphic) His peers always looked up to him in math. He did really well in Algebra in 7th and Geometry in 8th and then didn't get the grades in Algebra II last year and was placed in 'regular' pre-calculus this year. He ended up with C+ in Algebra, for multiple reasons and for DS it is water under the bridge. It was partly due to teacher.

DS is getting A's in math this year, has a great teacher and is now on track for being able to go back into the top track next year, although if this is a good idea is still up for debate. (AP Calc BC vs. Calc AB). The biggest downside is part of this class is repetition, they are about to start Matrices a subject that he covered in MORE depth last year and did well on.

What happens if your son takes this 'algebra 3 class' next year. Can he with a good grade move back "up"? Is he getting low grades on tests? Or is it just homework. Is there something he can do in the summer to get back into the top track. Have you talked with the teachers? Is the dysgraphia a problem because it's painful to handle the homework load. Problem in Algebra II can be sometimes really long and take a lot of time.

Not sure if this helps, but I know kids in astrophysicist in college who weren't even on the top track in H.S.

Good Luck... I do know what you are going through.

To the OP-- what, specifically, is causing the failing grade in this class?


Presumably it is poor performance, somehow-- is it conceptual? (Be brutally honest there-- are there ANY conceptual gaps-- of any source or explanation?) Is it just that computationally, he can't get "correct" answers because of the dysgraphia? Is it possible that this is a working memory thing?

Can you mitigate any of that in any way? (Afterschooling, summer school, etc. etc.)

You should also know that Algebra II is the first weeder course on the path to Calculus.

It is a very difficult class. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that even a HG+ student might struggle with it, particularly if there has been a lack of true challenge previously.

(I say this as someone whose kid sailed all through high school mathematics in spite of just about zero instructional support, up to and really, even including pre-calc... and that student has STILL struggled mightily with the eye-watering pace of collegiate math taught at the university level, given that unbelievably poor foundation. Gosh, thanks for nothing, secondary educational system. I also know that I'm not alone among parents here.)

Indeed. Alg II was an eye-opener for me, because I'd never had a prior experience where the teacher used the entire hour, every day, for lecture. This was a teacher with math degrees, he was very thorough, and I left the class every day understanding the material, but that's how much time was needed, because the concepts were that complex. The next day, we moved on to something new. As a student who had never had any challenge in math before, I was unprepared, and earned a C for the first semester, because I wasn't making time to do any of the copious homework (I usually completed that in class before). The teacher wasn't checking it every night, so it was up to our executive management skills to keep up all semester, and my motivation just wasn't there. I wasn't practicing what I was learning, though I was still able to pull low-As on the tests. The homework folder... yikes.

I could easily see a situation in which an LD like dysgraphia would have changed that C to an F.

Another important thing to consider in your DS's case is that if he'd always been told he was a math rock star, and he suddenly finds it difficult, he may be experiencing imposter syndrome, which may be causing him additional emotional issues that get in the way of his intellectual processes. Perfectionism. Self-sabotage.

I must be missing something here... Could you tell me what is difficult about Algebra II? The algebra part of precalculus--yes--but Algebra II seems to me to be nothing more than an Algebra I rehash with a few extras thrown in.

I wouldn't say that Algebra II is entirely an Algebra I rehash with a few extras thrown in, but I'm also with Kai in not really seeing it as any type of weed-out class

I wonder if it's more the teacher or amount of homework given that resulted in it being a "weed-out" class?

polarbear

Kai-- perhaps it used to be that way-- but the treatment of functions from a conceptual stance (rather than a procedural one), the inclusion of trigonometry, and advanced concepts which used to be in a rigorous GEOMETRY course, just to name a few differences. Some of those things are pretty old school-- and the sheer volume, pace, and rigor in the course catches many students off guard, and always has.


Val and I have both had recent (and not particularly good) experience with what passes for calculus preparation in secondary institutions these days.

My own story is much like Dude's, btw, and yes, it did result in imposter syndrome and math struggles that lasted for many years-- well into college. I should have had no trouble with calculus, but I did. Because it scared me. Looking back, my problems were related to the very rude(!!) shift in pace and work expectations, a truly dreadful teacher for the course, coupled with my previous beliefs about my math ability (accurate, but not useful in the context).

I also speculate-- and this is my own hypothesis-- that this is about where a lot of secondary math teachers run out of expertise beyond the bare bones of the course material.

That translates into fairly lackluster or superficial instruction in the course topics. Many of the people teaching this course don't understand much math beyond this content.

whereditgo, it would help us if you could give us more specific details on why he' failing - is it difficulty reading his handwriting (for either himself or the teacher), is he switching numbers or making errors when copying, is he having difficulty keeping up with homework due to large amounts of problems being assigned and running out of time, does he write slowly, does he forget to turn in assignments, is part of the grade hinged on keeping up a notebook and he's not up to par on that, is he not getting good grades on tests, etc.


Does he have a diagnosis now or are you just now pursuing one?

If he doesn't have an official diagnosis, what symptoms of dysgraphia do you see? Dysgraphia is more than just "sloppy handwriting". Please know I'm not questioning, just asking for more details that might help us give suggestions re how to proceed.


This is an issue that will most likely pop up at sometime, somewhere, for any student with dysgraphia. Is this the first time your ds has had this happen? Has he been in b&m schools all along? How were you able to advocate past it in the past, or is this the first time that handwriting has been an issue for him?


First, I have a question - what the heck is an Algebra 3 class? I'd look at the curriculum and be sure it's not a repeat of something he's already had (unless of course he's truly failing Algebra II).

Second, not getting to Calculus during high school isn't going to be the end of a dream of Astrophysics if that's what your ds wants to do. In fact, I'd be careful to consider what might be more of a challenge than math placement next year - i.e., what is happening now that is causing the issue in Algebra II. If your ds has dysgraphia or a different type of learning challenge or something else entirely that's causing him issues in Algebra II, just getting through Algebra II and placed into PreCal next year isn't in and of itself going to mean he won't run into the same issue again. Getting a correct diagnosis, understanding the challenge, and finding a way to accommodate successfully are going to be very important moving forward in his education, especially if he's struggling in an area that is crucial to the upper level education he's passionate about seeking. So, from that respect, at this point in the school year (if you're in the northern hemisphere ) it's possible that an Algebra repeat might not be the worse thing ever - if you can get a correct diagnosis now, work through suggestions and advice on accommodations, taking a repeat next year might give him the chance to truly learn the math in depth plus learn how to deal with the challenges of working with dysgraphia accommodations.


My dysgraphic ds has gotten discouraged in school before - and I think when things like this happens, its important as a parent to help him put his frustration where the actual cause of it is. The staff at school isn't trying to kill his dream - they are trying (I suspect) to do what they feel is best to help him be successful. They may not have all the info they need or understand dysgraphia, so as a parent you need to understand the challenge and you need to help your ds understand it. You probably can't do that in a vacuum, you'll need a professional diagnosis and your ds, as a teen, might need input from another adult/professional/mentor/whoever. You can find info on accommodations (and consult with professionals to do so), but your ds will have to be a key part of testing accommodations, thinking through what is needed and isn't needed, and deciding how he will use them and what works for him. He'll also need to see an example from you of how to advocate for himself, and then he'll need to be able to start advocating for himself (if he does have dysgraphia or another LD).


I have two 2e kids, one has dysgraphia and is in high school. He's had different classes at different times that were a challenge due to dysgraphia and required us to advocate as well as think through accommodations and at times try new accommodations.

Math can be tough for dysgraphic kids for several different reasons, which is why I asked for more specific details at the beginning of my reply. The good news is, the reasons why math is tough *can* be accommodated. I'll list a few of the things my ds does in my next reply, if you see something that seems similar in terms of a challenge hello might have your ds try the accommodation at home - but again, my first recommendation is to get the diagnosis and a professional's input on what's up.

Best wishes,

polarbear

ps - I mentioned "professional diagnosis" several times above - please know I wasn't specifically *not* including a diagnosis through your school. That counts too