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    Joined: Apr 2013
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    plaz Offline OP
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    Trying to decide which IQ and Achievement test would be best for my 7 year old daughter (grade 2). She is strongest in Verbal Reasoning (a little lower in Non-Verbal and Math). She is a passionate reader for sure!!!

    From what I read WISC would make more sense than the new SB? My concern is that I read it is heavily timed. Her thought process is fast but she melts down if things are thrown in front of her too quickly (-2.5 Astigmatism in both eyes). Is the timing of WISC extremely fast in some parts and is there a difference in timing between the 2 versions?

    Any input appreciated, as well as any Achievement Test recommendations for the same child!

    Thanks in advance!!!

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    Is your purpose to get as high a score as possible or to actually find out her strengths and weaknesses? Because your question reads a lot more like the former, which will not find much favor here.

    I don't think that anything is thrown out quickly in the way you seem to be thinking in the WISC - there are timed sections, but the whole subtest is set in front of the child and they have to get through it as fast as possible. It's not a rapid-fire ask-a-question-get-an-answer-ask-another-question section like a timed computer-adaptive test. (aeh is our resident expert here who will correct me if I'm wrong, I hope.)

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    plaz Offline OP
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    Thanks! She took the CoGAT and ITBS in school this fall. We just got the results and she was 99th percentile in CoGAT both age and grade and 99th percentile for ITBS. Her CoGAT profile is 9B. We are very relieved as she was approved for a great local self-contained program in our county. I'm still getting my head around it all, but believe she would also greatly benefit from the connections made available by DYS if she qualifies (nothing at our local schools is accepted). I would also like to better understand how gifted she really is in terms of her strengths and weaknesses (would not care about overall numbers period - wish they were not used, but understand why they are necessary.

    I found a local University that will do fairly affordable testing for IQ and Achievement as required by DYS. I plan to do NO test prep for whatever tests we decide on (...with the possible exception of very few sample questions given on their official sites to make her more comfortable/less stress... her school gave them Riverside practice questions prior to CoGAT). However, I do want to select the best test for her and to get the best overall information for me. I was going with SB because of the high ceiling, then I read mixed reviews on the accuracy of results for version 5. So... I'm just processing, trying to get this stuff straight in my head... and trying not to stress out my daughter (it is really just the type of timed things done with visual blasts that can make her melt down... like Moby Max timed math).

    Just looking for any input on how to get accurate results.

    Thanks again!

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    aeh Offline
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    The SBV and WISC-V are both individually-administered, which is quite a different proposition from group standardized tests like the CogAT. I've only had a few months experience with the WISC-V, as it just came out in October (though years of experience with the previous versions), but generally, I like the structure of it better, from a clinical utility standpoint. The SBV is much less dependent on speed than the WISC-V, but even on the WISC, only a handful of subtests are really affected by speed, and two of them are specifically measures of processing speed. (The SBV has no measures of processing speed, which can be a clinically important aspect of cognitive ability.) One of the improvements with the WISC-V over the WISC-IV is that speed and working memory are less heavily weighted in the calculation of the FSIQ (what most people think of as the IQ). I would not worry about a rapid-fire test process precipitating melt-downs. The majority of the test is quite gentle, and even fun for many GT kiddos, though there may be moments when she feels challenged because discontinue rules require testing until a specified number of failures have occurred. If the examiner is aware of her astigmatism, she will be able to take that into account in her interpretation of the visual parts of the test (the VSI, FRI, and PSI subtests, mainly), most of which should not be notably affected by her vision. (I assume she has and wears corrective lenses?)

    There are no legitimate sample questions for individually-administered IQ tests and achievement tests. The best way to prep her is to make sure she is adequately rested, fed, and comfortably clothed for test day, and to clearly convey that the outcomes of the test in no way reflect on her value as a human being. smile Testing is for the purpose of understanding oneself better. As long as she does not experience this as a high-stakes gateway to something, I would say that this is all the prep you need or should have. It sounds like you have already dealt with the high-stakes aspect with admission to your county program.

    At age 7, the test ceiling on the WISC-V should be plenty, for the majority of children, even many 99th %ile children. The test is normed to age 16-11, so there are items designed to push a high school-age student. As a recent release, with the most current norms, it should result in more accurate scores than older tests.

    In terms of achievement testing, the WIAT-III and KTEA-3 both have linking studies attaching them to the WISC-V, which makes statistical comparisons a bit easier and more reliable. On the other hand, both have ceiling issues for selected subtests.

    On the WIAT, the reading comprehension subtest notoriously underestimates GT children, because of the grade-level item sets, which are pretty fixed (you can drop back for lower-functioning students, but not advance for higher-performing students). Oral reading fluency also has grade-locked item sets, but is usually not as much of an issue. At second grade, she would not be administered the essay composition (extended, multi-sentence writing) subtest at all.

    On the KTEA, reading comprehension has item sets with decision rules, which does allow for continuing to higher levels, beyond the grade-level set, which would be a plus for high-functioning students. The written expression subtest, on the other hand, is administered in strict item sets. Then again, at least the second grade set includes the possibility of essay writing, so, unless your child is an exceptional paragraph-writer, ceiling effects may not come into play.

    From a ceiling standpoint, the WJIII and WJIV (latest version, just out this past fall) have the most generous ceilings, as they do not have the item set restrictions. They lack the linkage data, being from a rival publisher, and also of very recent publication date. I find them to be slightly less developmentally engaging, though that will be highly individual to your child.

    Given your description of your child, the most important factor is probably going to be the clinical skill of the examiner, especially her ability to build rapport with your daughter, and set her at ease.


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    plaz Offline OP
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    Great information!!! Exactly what I was hoping to learn!

    She does wear glasses for the astigmatism (half strength because the full strength caused headaches). It sounds like the WISC-V will be fine for her (I just got nervous when I read it was "heavily" timed). I think we will go with the WISC V and later the KTEA-3. She loves reading, writing and most any type of puzzle, so she will probably enjoy the WISC V. First, I will try to figure out how to explain to her that she should take another assessment while making sure she doesn't worry about the outcome (before and after she takes it). The ceiling doesn't really matter. I can't help being a little curious but the main reasons are that testing may let us know weaknesses we were not aware of and because the benefits of DYS sound very, very good. We are very lucky that she is a happy, social and well-rounded child and I am aware of the importance of maintaining that.

    Thanks so much for such a comprehensive reply!!!

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    We told our DD (7.5 at the time) that the test was to help see how she learns best and that the questions got harder and harder until almost no one would be able to answer them and the tester knew that (just to keep her from freaking out if she started feeling out of her depth). This was for the WISC-IV.

    Rapport is a big deal, but she loved her tester and had a great time with the test. Her lowest score was processing speed (which came in as normal for her age) but it didn't seem to stress her out -- and she'd be likely to get stressed in a high pressure full speed situation as well.

    She loved the test and only started to get a little tired at the end (according to the tester, I didn't see or hear any of the testing). The only amusing thing is that questions didn't get too hard on some of the subtests... she ran out of questions instead.

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    plaz Offline OP
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    That is great! I will tell her that and will also make an appointment to meet the person who will administer the test (so that we can change prior to the test if necessary).
    Thanks!

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    aeh and others given you some great advice. I think rapport with the tester is key. We chose our tester from the Hoagie's list, based upon other parents' reports of rapport with children, and the tester was AMAZING: http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/psychologists.htm. My DC have very, very different personalities, and they both enjoyed the testing experience.

    DD9 had a 9C profile on the CoGAT, strongest in verbal, next in non-verbal, relative weakness in quantitative. Her composite was 99% for age and grade. She did extremely well on the WISC IV, and it mirrored the CoGAT. Like the CoGAT verbal, DD was VERY strong on the VCI portion of the WISC.

    I will mention that although I was told WIAT is child-friendly, we did have problems with the ceilings, even though DS was 6 when he took it. In retrospect, perhaps we should have used another test like the WJ, which has higher ceilings.

    Best wishes to you and your DD!

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    plaz Offline OP
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    Wow, your daughter sounds a lot like mine - they just put a V+ and didn't list the relative weaknesses, but her score was a little lower in non-verbal. This has all been great advice - wonderful forum! I'll check out the hoagies site!

    Thank You!

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    I would suggest seeing how the gifted school goes before testing for DYS. You don't need to do everything now.

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