Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments High School Curriculum Question

I haven’t posted in some time, but now I came back to everyone with a question about Public High School placement. We are starting to look at my DS12s high school choices for next year. He is grade skipped and attending a public school in the 8th grade and taking Algebra 2 at the local HS. The concern we have is what class's he should take starting in the 9th grade. Currently he wants to attend Caltech, MIT, or Stanford after he graduates from HS. (He’s 12 so things may/will change as he gets older). The school district has been somewhat helpful with his math placement; however they do have their own plan for progression through HS. There normal honors progression looks like the following (Adjusted for his Math.

Honors English 9, Honors Biology , Honors Trig/Pre-Calculus , Fine Arts or Foreign Lang, PE or Sports or Marching Band (2 years of PE is required to graduate) Semester of Computers + Semester of Health (1 semester of Health is required to graduate) Health may be taken during the summer after 8th grade.
The plan I suggested looks more like this.
9th Grade

Honors English, AP Biology, AP Calculus BC (He will take Trig, pre-calculus over the summer on line), German 1 (May change to Spanish), PE (May change to Marching Band)
Principals of Engineering
Health over the summer if needed and the schedule can be worked out

10th Grade

Honors English, AP Chemistry, German 2 (or Spanish 2), PE (May change to Marching Band
AP Euro History, Aeronautical Engineering
(Independent Math Study at UC or CU)

11th Grade
Honors English, AP Physics (If offered, or honors if not), German 3 (or Spanish 3), AP US History, 2 Electives, (Independent Math Study at UC or CU)

12th Grade
AP English, AP German (Or Spanish), AP Micro Economics
3 Electives, (Independent Math Study at UC or CU)

Electives may be
Animation 1 and 2, Architectural Drawing 1 and 2, Interior Design 1
AP Computer Science, Jazz Band.

I am looking for guidance on what curriculum choices other students have chosen that allowed them the best chance of acceptance into the 3 universities (Or similar universities) I listed above. Also note the district has already stated they are not in favor of him taking AP Biology and AP Calculus in 9th, and would prefer he takes a foreign language in 10th.

CA requires two years of math in high school to graduate, and your DS is only taking one with the school as an official high schooler. I would double-check with the school to make sure they'll credit him for one or more of the alternatives. Otherwise, your DS may be better served to take the regular trig/pre-calc class in 9th grade, and calc BC in 10th. If you can get them to credit him with the math he takes at the university, you can possibly drop an elective in 11th and 12th grade, which would give your DS more time and space to get his work done.

All of the desired schools are privates, which means expensive, so even if you feel you're on track to finance that, it might not be a bad idea to keep the door open to the UC system, because four years is plenty of time for a potential life-changing event. The UCs and CSUs both require a year of visual or performing arts. You've already identified a few electives that would satisfy that, so I'd make sure your DS selects at least one from that category.

Otherwise, it looks like a solid plan, and assuming he does well, coupled with his age, I don't see any reason why any school wouldn't want him.

I agree with Dude-- with one exception.


I'd swap out one of the AP science courses with AP US History in 9th grade. Offer that to the school as a "concession" to them.

It'll be more suitable earlier on, honestly-- by the time DD was a senior, that class was way too remedial for her. It would have been perfect for her when she was a freshman, though.

If you have the option locally, both AP English and AP Literature are very worthwhile. DD took them both, one as a junior and one as a senior in high school.


AP Stats is another consideration on the math track. You maybe could swap out a year of science (since there are only 3 in the AP track) for that one. Or do a different AP science-- Marine Science or Environmental Science, perhaps?

I am in a So. California School District known for it's top math program, every year student win top math awards. In MY DISTRICT the school is absolute sticklers that one CAN NOT take outside math and be placed in their HONORS MATH courses. PERIOD, no exception. (I'm not entirely sure what they do with kids moving into the district.) That means taking online Trig/Pre-Calc during the summer would not get him into BC Calculus. (Not sure what this means at this level maybe AB Calculus, at other levels your child would be put in the non-honors course).. Their claim is their HONORS math classes are harder than those at the community college. I've seen this problem more with kids trying to take Geometry is the summer or online and trying to get into Honors Algebra II. But the school takes a very hard line on this. I don't agree with it... but it's there. I do know of a student who started staking Algebra through the district in 5th grade and in 9th grade took AP Calculus. I do not know what this kid is doing this year. But he never skipped a year by taking a class online. The district does (like your student) allow occasional students to start the sequence as early as 5th grade but these students mostly ended up taking AP Stats and AP Computer Science to fill out their upper grades.

I would talk to your district math coordinator, or H.S. math department chair. While I know students who are more than capable of learning at this speed. My own husband finished Calculus as a 9th grader and took math classes through a top university starting in 10th, that was 30 years ago. So I have no doubt that your son could do this. I just suggest your proceed with the summer school idea only after talking with those in charge.

Something else to seriously consider. IF you son wants to get into a Top Tier University. He is more likely to get in by "playing the game". Taking AP and Honors classes through the H.S. gives you +1 on your GPA. If you take the same class online or through a university (even a UC) that grade will be face value. While I don't consider that important, many kids do. Most kids who take Calculus their junior year at my school go on to take AP Stats or AP Computer Science their senior year because on paper (ie.. for the GPA) that "LOOKS" better.

In addition, taking classes at our local UC even though it's very close are fraught with scheduling difficulties. My son is currently in Marching Band. (He Loves It.) But there is no way I could possible fit a course at the UC into his schedule even if he had a hole in his schedule, and even with a very short commute. It's more common for kids take UC classes during the summer.

I don't see anything else really wrong with the rest of the plan assuming that it goes OK for him. That schedule will have a huge homework load & he will be quite busy.

I really don't think that he has to jam in the math and science. If he wants to, then fine. Yes, math through at least Calc BC and take all the AP sciences, but honestly, these courses will in no way guarantee his acceptance to those three schools.

And doesn't your school have other math courses? Linear Algebra? Diff Eq? Did he not take a language in middle school? Or does he want to start over with a different language in HS (most kids enter level 2 of the language in HS - AP is essentially level 5).

While I'm sure he will be a qualified applicant for those schools, most applicants are qualified. He may very well get in one of those schools, but he needs to "love his safeties" (i.e. apply to other schools where he knows he will get in).

Take a look at the stats of the kids who got rejected from those schools on College Confidential. Many of them had courses like your son plans to take. Then look at who got in. Sure, some won't make sense, but typically kids have won some high level academic competitions, have published research, have some very special talent (could be in the arts or sports), done an exceptional service project (not just Eagle Scout), etc. Of course, if you are first generation to college or URM, that helps, but I suspect that is not the case.

Help him find his passion and that will guide his ECs. 8th grade is a good time to plan this stuff since you really can't get really into an EC that you start in 11th grade.

My kids do not have those special ECs. Middle kid is taking 4 APs this year (11th) - AP Eng Language, AP Calc AB, AP Physics 1 and AP French. Next year is likely AP Spanish, AP Eng Lit, some AP science (Chem or another Physics - already took AP Bio), AP Euro, not sure on math. Plays two sports at HS, in 5th year of a travel sport, student rep to a Board of Trustees for an educational non-profit, perfect score on a national foreign language exam...she does not have anything special. Maybe could try the sports angle at a DIII like MIT, but otherwise, nothing special. Like someone else said, you need to play the game. Mine have not and it probably hurt my eldest in her acceptances.

My daughter wants to attend MIT as well.

She took AP Calculus BC in 9th grade.

In 10th grade she is taking Multivariable calculus and Differential equations (post AP), AP Comp Science A, AP Physics 2, AP Chemistry. Honors English

For 11th grade she plans to take AP physics C, AP Bio, Honors topics in Comp Science, Honors Topics in Math (post AP level).

For 12th the plan is to have mostly post AP courses in Math and Science with research component.

These classes are all offered in her high school, so no need for early college.

She is very busy, but is definitely manageable. She does best in classes that are at her level and topics she enjoys (loves physics).

The trick here is to let her be the driver in choosing her courses. She decided how much she wants to work and as long as I see her happy and not stressed out, I am fine with her choices so far. She manages to keep straight As so she is definitely not overwhelmed.

She is also in a varsity team and very involved in her school's robotics FRC team.

It is important that they are putting effort in things they enjoy. Like Notsogifted said, nothing guarantees a college acceptance to a specific college, but if they are doing what they like, then they will enjoy the journey, whatever the final destination ends up being.

Have you checked the pre reqs for courses like AP Biology? Has he already taken a H.S. level Biology or another of lab Chemistry class, perhaps online or during the summer? I just noticed that you have AP Biology listed for him as a freshman. In our school one year of Biology and Chemistry are a requirement before any of the AP science courses. It might be different at your H.S. but I thought that was a fairly standard that AP Biology was a 2nd year. At my son's school there is a new rule started this past year was that freshman & sophomores can't double up science courses. Leaving the AP Science courses only available to Juniors & Seniors. ON the other hand in our school AP Computer Science, can be taken once Algebra II has been passed.

I don't doubt that your child can likely take AP Biology and do well in it. And it looks quite likely your H.S. is more flexible than mine. It looks like a good schedule, I'm just not sure if it's one the H.S. administration is going to be happy with unless they are already giving your son special accommodations for being PG.

I am impressed by some of the courses you have listed like Aeronautical Engineering, Architectural Drawing 1 and 2 are not available at my H.S. My school only offers math up to AP BC Calculus, AP Statistics and AP Computer Science. No engineering course, not even any physics course with Calculus.

Another thing you should note. AP Physics without Calculus has changed as of this year. It is now broken into two different years Physics 1 & 2 and takes two years. (AP rules you can't sign up for both the same year.) AP Physics with Calculus (Physics C) is still available as a one year course, but unfortunately my H.S. doesn't offer it, nor do they offer Physics 2.

Is AP Physics 1 now just classical mechanics, then? Ugh. DD would have hated that. She loved the second semester best.

Yes. I have a friend who's daughter is now taking this class. This is even more frustrating given that my district doesn't even offer AP Physics C.

Wow, thank you everyone for your input. It's all very helpful. Please note the local HS has not agreed to any of my suggestions yet. They do seem to require Honors Bio before any AP science course. There is no foreign language at any of our middle schools, and they normally do not allow you to take any until 10th grade. They are willing to allow him to take honors Trig/pre-cal, I just believe this will be too easy for him. They also have limited AP courses vs. other schools outside our area. It’s hard to believe that a MS with 1400+ students has no foreign language and no geometry (Or now Math 1). The HS has over 4000 students and is one of the largest in the country but does not have a Physics AP class. I am hopeful that they will become more flexible as we progress. We had huge battles with the district for the grade skip in 2nd and the two year math skip in 4th to 6th. The good thing is that they still are trying to work with us and trying to do what they think is best. The HS does have a great engineering path for students that want to go to Cal Poly Pomona.