Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments Educating the teacher - washout

Sounds like you are doing as much as you can. Way to go!

Agree.

And in those cases, when the parent gets involved, the teachers blame the child. "Well, DC never said anything about it to me." This is one of the reasons why self-advocacy is so helpful, because when it is time for us parents to step in, we're in a stronger position. We begin the conversation by describing the situation and the things our children have done in an attempt to resolve it. That cuts off the go-to excuse right there, and adds an unspoken, "Why has it gotten to the point where I need to be personally involved?"


Children in my school district are not allowed to communicate with the staff directly via electronic media of any sort (email, social networks, etc) to avoid any inappropriate contact (grooming, etc) or its appearance. All communications must pass through the parents' accounts.


During DD's difficult 1st-grade year, we asked her to write a letter communicating her feelings about the school situation. I read it aloud during one of the meetings. The body language of the staff members all said, "I don't care, I'm not listening."


And vice-versa. Our children know that adults can be unpredictable when challenged by a child, and the adults in question control a lot of their lives, and can make things very uncomfortable. Children DO get bullied by school staff, and my DW has seen direct examples. They're often going to consider it in their best interests to say nothing and avoid escalation, and they'll only gain the confidence to speak up when they're convinced, by words and by actions, that their parents have their backs.

Also, the child backing the parents is not limited to the meeting. For example, if the parent says the child has a certain skill level, the school is going to require confirmation. The child needs to be prepared to demonstrate those skills.


ITA. That staff member's action was totally inappropriate. The next time you have a meeting with the school, they're going to bring up your DD's responses, and how they are inconsistent with your message. My response would be, "That's what happens when you ambush a 9yo."

It's so interesting to read about all the different school policies, and I appreciate the perspective they bring to each discussion. This makes complete sense, but I had never heard of this kind of policy previously (probably why I didn't understand the earlier reply that it might be difficult to tell the identify of the person sending the email!). We have had a few teachers over the years very specifically say that they don't want parents involved in these discussions, and if it gets to the point of a parent being involved, they want an administrator there as "witness." Perhaps that is part of the reason that I am suspicious about teachers who ONLY want to talk to the kids and not to the parents-these are usually the same teachers that allocate 2 minutes at the end of class for these student-teacher meetings (even when one is requested before or after school or during lunch) and try to steamroll the kid and shut him or her down.

Though I agree in theory that at age 9, a child should be able to advocate for themselves, in reality, it is impossible for many kids to do so. I was one of those kids who was in the OP's child's situation when I was pulled into advocacy meetings with my parents. Though I laugh about it in retrospect, I was almost traumatized at that age when I was forced to take a stand against a really stern teacher whose classroom was not at all fun to begin with.

Children can easily be the victims of adults (teachers) and they spend more waking time with these teachers than they do with their families in a day. A teacher can make life uncomfortable for a child who labeled her class as "boring" (and by extension, implying that she is incompetent at her job) in front of other adults in an advocacy meeting. My child at age 6 says that his 1st grade teacher used a "mean voice" to talk to him and though she said nothing wrong, it hurt his feelings that she used that voice to tell him to do some things in class. That is just a small example of the "bullying" from teachers that children face in school.
So, I prefer to do any advocacy by myself with a lot of data and facts to back me up and I would tell the teacher to test my child for proficiency rather than ask my child for feedback. I would also tell them that the very fact that I had to advocate and they were unable to figure out my child's giftedness through classroom observation or testing is their fault. (I am also the kind of parent who would rather change schools than get into prolonged advocacy battles, so take my post with a grain of salt!).
Any email communication between child and teacher is prohibited in our school.

A young child can communicate, but they cannot advocate. Th relationship is inherently unequal, and if you have the kind of teacher and school where advocacy is necessary, you sort of by definition need the adult to do it. Yes,the kid is like a witness in that situation, talking about their feelings and needs, maybe even bring up suggestions, but all relevant decisions will be made by adults, teachers or parents or both together and the children know this. The accommodations I discussed today with my child's teacher (subject acceleration in math versus radical acceleration via a full grade skip) are NOT things I'd want my almost 8 yo to discuss with a teacher without me.
Edited to add that the teacher mentioned that while she thought it was right to have our first conference without him, she wanted him present for the follow up meetings discussing further steps. I liked that.

I am definitely ... Give me what my kid needs (I am flexible in how you do that as long as he is being educated appropriately) or I take my toys (his very high test scores) and go home (home school or something). 1100 kids in the school ...169 kids in his grade and only 10 kids in 4th grade got his scores last year. And he could have taken the 5th grade test and gotten top scores on that one too. They can't afford to lose one out of ten kids

I had the first meeting where I got nowhere and I went home flustered and steamrolled. Regrouped and went back and talked to an administrator one on one. She took notes...I don't know if she agreed or is just very, very good with upset parents. In addition, I talked to the gifted coordinator for the district and got her on my son's team (she asked for his iq and WJ achievement scores and that was enough for her). Then things happened not quickly. But I had started making plans to pack it in and I think that it was evident in my persistence that I was going to succeed or else leave.

But I didn't involve my son in the advocacy ...although he would have told you he didn't want to do third grade math again and wanted fourth grade math. He isn't shy about stuff like that.

This.

To clarify, I'm not proposing a child practice self-advocacy for the big things, like "two years acceleration in math" or "move to a different classroom where there's more of a cluster in her ability range." I'm talking about the little stuff, like, "the librarian won't let me check out chapter books" or "this kid keeps pushing me in the lunch line."

Very very good to hear so many points of view! I was angry that the teacher flippantly stated that if DD9 was unhappy that she needed a psychologist (we have one, thank you kindly) vs. thinking about how she could enrich the work. I was also not thrilled that the teacher asked DD to prove that she could do 4th grade work when every single previous assessment from the school showed her doing above level work. I later asked the psychologist if DD needed to prove, yet again, that she was able, and it made me feel better that the psychologist said, "Of course not." The psychologist also stated that is not up to a child to come up with their own curriculum as the teacher suggested DD could do. She stated that teachers should have some ideas about how they could challenge higher level kids.

What I did take away from all the posts here is that DD could do a bit more advocating with the teacher so we practiced that this week. Success!!! DD does do well on her own handling other kids; I don't worry about that. I do feel like teachers have so much power over children so it can be very intimidating for a young student to be questioned by his/her teacher. DD had no notion that she was going to be called in. That was not fair to her. I have done a lot of explaining to her this week about what is going on between mom, dad, and the school. I also have been more firm with the teacher about DD's ADHD and made more suggestions to the teacher about how we could work on that situation. Finally, I have a letter printed out for the principals asking for a meeting to be held to discuss DD and "enrichment". That will be the next hurdle!