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    Joined: Dec 2011
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    vwmommy Offline OP
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    DS9 is in third grade and diagnosed ASD, ADHD, and anxiety. He reads at a 6th-9th grade level, depending on the subject matter and understands science concepts that aren't usually introduced until high school.

    Math, on the other hand, is different. His conceptual understanding in amazing. He has understood things like square roots and negative numbers since kindergarten. His processing speed is very low compared to the rest of his scores though. Perceptual reasoning being about 99th percentile and processing speed about 20th percentile.

    This causes issues with DS being bored by the concepts that they are learning but still struggling with basic math facts. He eventually gets them but he ends up feeling bad about not being "good at it". We have been trying to let him know that eventually he will get to a level in math where his type of understanding will be more important. His teacher this year has been pretty good about not emphasizing speed work (i.e. fluency) so much but we are still struggling with how to keep his confidence up.

    Any thoughts on how to bridge this period with his interest still intact? I know that he needs to lean his facts but I'm afraid that if we wait for math to get interesting for him again it might be too late.

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    Have you tried fluency games on the computer? Some kids find it frustrating but DS loved Big Brainz which has addition through division. Multiplication is called "timez attack". DD8 also struggles with this with her slow processing speed and I just keep trying to plug away at it. I think the key is to have him do it daily, or almost daily, but even then he may still forget some of the facts after a while or be slow to retrieve them. Big Brainz has free versions so you could have him try it and see if he likes it or not. It's a video game format so I think that helped keep my kids engaged. DD went through phases where she was frustrated by it, probably because of the speed/timing aspect of it. If he is very frustrated by being timed (even if it's a game) he probably won't like it.

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    vwmommy Offline OP
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    Yeah, the computer games often end up in tears. He gets really frustrated with them. I'm not too worried about his fluency because I believe that eventually it will become more second nature for him. I also don't believe that, in the long run, it will make a difference if it takes him two seconds or eight seconds to remember a sum.

    I've compared him to a filing cabinet with too many papers in it. All the information is there, its just hard to get the right piece of information out.

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    I hear you. DS didn't seem to care about not getting things fast enough, he liked the "game" aspect too much. But it doesn't work for everyone. I guess all you can do is drill and more drill but don't worry about speed.

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    While the computer games worked well for us, there are some ipad games where speed isn't as much of a factor, but you still get "prizes" for completing them. I would have to look them up, but there was one where you got rocket parts as the prize and then you built the rocket.

    Would that kind of thing interest him?

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    Originally Posted by vwmommy
    Yeah, the computer games often end up in tears. He gets really frustrated with them. I'm not too worried about his fluency because I believe that eventually it will become more second nature for him.

    Computer games are a bust with my son - because along with perfectionism issues, his anxiety level goes through the roof when he is faced with a situation where someone in distress will be rescued if he remembered all the math facts on time and punched them in without mistake. He used to be in tears and have nightmares after working on such computer games.

    So, we went with other approaches to drill his facts - one was a mnemonics based program for easy recall. Another was the Soroban mental abacus method (outsourced to a tutor, because I am not familiar with it). The combination seems to have broken the "slow processing speed" barrier for math facts.

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    I'd look at it from a different standpoint (which I think is actually aligned with what you are thinking, wvmommy). I wouldn't push computer games or drill and kill or whatever. I'd look at is as - the math facts are perhaps slow at the moment but they are what they are, and he's only 9. It's not unusual for absolutely neurotypical no-challenges-in-the-world kids (even gifted nt kids) to not be developmentally ready to seal down their math facts quickly until they are a few years older. I'm guessing there are other challenges that your ds' time would be better invested in than trying to cram math fact fluency in before he's really developmentally ready.

    Sooo… first thing at school: how are they working on math facts? Is it fill in worksheets, timed tests etc? Then I'd try to get a work-around in place. If he is slow with handwriting, request that he be given oral response accommodation on timed tests. If he knows them but is slow in responding orally too, then ask for either extended time or reduced # of questions on assessments that impact his ability to move forward. If he is still calculating on his fingers (or whatever), then ask for a calculator accommodation on work that is not straight assessment of timed math fluency.

    And - request that he be placed in math at the level his conceptual ability allows him to be placed. It's easy to accommodate for fluency challenges.

    Best wishes,

    polarbear

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    I'm with polarbear. DD12 has a similar spread in reasoning/speed. Math facts quizzes were a significant part of her complete breakdown and withdrawal from school in 3rd grade.

    If I had it to do over again, I would not back the teacher at all in requiring math facts drill. She still hasn't learned them at 12, and isn't likely to; her dad says he never learned them and it hasn't hurt him yet. Since you have data on processing speed, you could ask for modified assessments that let him move forward. The most important piece for us, though, has been to find conceptually interesting math to play with outside of school. Even the best 3rd grade math isn't that advanced.

    My DD liked several math books: The Number Devil, Penrose the Mathematical Cat, The Further Adventures of Penrose, Math for Smarty Pants, various logic puzzles, etc. There is a puzzle called Kakuro which is like a numerical crossword, using sums as the clues, that is good for low-pressure addition practice.

    It's not an easy road. Now I have a middle-schooler who loves math and STILL can't do arithmetic fluently - but her fluency in all subjects is down at the same low percentile, so I doubt we could have done much about it.

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    I can ABSOLUTELY understand the approach of not making this an issue right now and taking the stress level down - this MAY be the right approach for your DS.

    DD started complaining about math in 2nd grade and it turns out it was because she was not quick at her math facts. We solved the problem by having DD practice (she does NOT suffer from anxiety). She has a weaker WM than reasoning-ability, so this actually took some work on her part - but it was great for her. Learning her math facts quickly/automatically actually GAVE her math confidence. This might not work in your situation, but DD has gone from "I hate math" to being one of the very top math students in her grade (and possibly very high a grade or two up). I hope that you find a good solution for your DS.

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    I think it's extremely helpful to get to the point where you don't need to count on fingers or struggle to recall answers. But depending on if there is a learning challenge it might not be possible. I don't think I'd give up at this point, just find ways to work on it without emphasizing speed or putting on pressure. Like have him work on math fact problems for just a couple min. per day (not timed), then move onto more "fun" or interesting math.

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    Search around a bit, there's been quite a few threads here on variations of this theme. The quick summary is if he discovers patterns within the multiplication tables himself, he'll probably remember them forever. Filling out a multiplication table is a cool one to see things like how 9s multiplied progress.

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