Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Musical instruments at what age?

Our DS4 seems to like music a lot. Like baseball, it has always been related to numbers. Just before his 2nd birthday we noticed that he recognized songs on his favorite CDs by their track number. "Jailhouse Rock" was his favorite, and whenever it came on he would run around the bedroom shouting "Five, five, five!" For a while we didn't know what he was talking about. But then we noticed that the very cheap CD player we had put in his room had an LED readout for the track number and "Jailhouse Rock" was, indeed, the fifth song on the CD. It turned out he recognized all the songs on that CD, and others, by their track number. We were astonished to discover he had been making this connection.

In addition to listening to music, I have been taking him to Saturday morning music classes for children since he was about 12 months old, and he has always liked them a lot. We have lots of instruments around the house - piano, guitars, and a variety of small instruments for him - that he enjoys fooling around with.

Fast forward to the present. The music school where he takes his Saturday morning lessons offers a Suzuki strings program that starts at age 4. I spoke with the director of the program the other night and she thinks that DS would be very good for it. But it is a big commitment. They expect you to practice every day - even if at the start that means for only 5 minutes. I do think DS would enjoy being able to produce music, but I am not certain that he will enjoy making such a commitment. I am very nervous about over-scheduling him. Have others had any experience with Suzuki strings programs? DS says he wants to learn the cello "because it has a deeper voice than the violin".

BB

We started DS at 5 years on Suzuki violin. It has been a big commitment and there were some years where we fought a lot about practice. If, though, the adults in the household all support the decision and don't waffle too much, I think many families can get through those early struggles. Starting around 11, DS started taking responsibility for his practices. He now plays violin, is a competitive fiddler, and is playing cello in orchestra. He has excellent music reading skills as well. So, for us, the early commitment paid off.

I would suggest that you look at some of the books about the Suzuki method (including Nurtured by Love) and get an idea of the philosophy. Since it is listening-based, probably the most important thing is to make sure they listen to their CD every day. We just plop it in the CD player as he is climbing into bed at night. Some days that was the only practice that DS got. But listening makes a huge difference.

Hi BBDad

We started violin at 5 with a modified Suzuki program. DD is now 9 and has kept with it. She plays in various ensembles and orchestras, too.To echo what others have said, it is a great way for her to learn that something can be hard, but if you do practice you get better, and if you don't, you don't. As she, like many children referred to on this board, gets so many things so easily and quickly, it's great character and discipline training.

DD9 is now taking up the clarinet as well.

Here�s my son�s Suzuki violin lessons story:

When he was almost five and facing another year of pre-school due to missing the cut-off for K, he was evaluated for IQ (at the suggestion of his pre-school). Although he tested as gifted, the retired school pyschologist suggested that he may have attention issues and suggested Suzuki lessons.

We enrolled him with a young man who taught Suzuki from his home while his wife worked at her career away from the house. It seemed like an ideal arrangement for DS- a male teacher who lived less than a mile away with weekday morning availability! The problem was that this young man was already task saturated with the care of a newborn, a toddler, two affectionate cats and a very friendly golden retriever!

My son (and I) attended lessons (supposedly to help with attention and concentration) while the instructor held his crying newborn, the cats circled our feet and the dog�s wagging tail continually brushed my son�s face, all while listening to Telli Tubbies (sp?) on the baby monitor! We quit after 7 weeks into a 3 month commitment!

Even though we were actually out a few hundred dollars for rental and pre-paid lessons I thought this situation was hysterical, even at the time.

We started a 3.5 year old so what someone else noted - to develop an ability to focus on something she wasn't dictating. The hard part you are right - is you taking the time to ensure they practice or it is pointless. It's been a good thing for her. We started the then 5.5 year old 6 months later so they'd get off on a more even footing. The younger one does better now that she is trying to best her sister or at least show her not to be shy. Ironically we thought the younger's love for music would rule out but the older is all math and patterns - so despite it being susuki - the older one figured out who to read sheet music in a day.

I can't tell you what is right in your case. For us, I grew up with susuki lessons and love music. The oldest needs something that doesn't happen perfectly without practice. The youngest needs something to force her to pay attention now at 4.5 our practice time is still a meger 10-12 minutes a day. So for us it is more a parenting - reinforcement tool of sorts. If they decide in a year to throw in the towel or we have to switch teachers and nobody wants to go forward... then we'll see. For now while there are the "no I don't want to practice" there is still a lot of "holy cow" did you hear what I did - a looks of self pride for failing, failing, getting it right. School may not offer a lot of opportunities to have to work hard at something before getting it right.

but overscheduling is definately something we try to avoid. our girls aren't much for a lot of sports at present...

so basically i'm not saying anything new here :-) sorry - more of the same. you can always wait for fall/winter to come to give it a try when there isn't so much draw for the outdoors (of course we live in a snowpile).

Thanks to everyone. I can of course imagine it would be good to learn discipline, and how to stick with a project. These are certainly important skills, and he doesn't much have them. He will definitely need to develop them at some point. What I can't figure out is whether now is the time to start in on them. I have tried to be very conscious of taking his lead - playing math or reading games with him when he seems excited but not forcing them on him when he's not showing an interest. I feel like I'm starting to understand this balance well. We do a lot of those things, but I don't think he thinks of it as a burden at all. They happen in his free time, as the spirit moves us. What I'm nervous about is the idea of changing from this rather free-spirited, playful approach to something more like: every morning at 7:00 a.m. you must take out the cello and practice! It's not that I think there's no room for this kind of discipline, it's just that I don't know whether age 4 is really the time to begin teaching it.

There must be some out there who have avoided early music lessons because they felt its being so scheduled would dull their DC's interest. Anyone want to take that side? We have about a month to decide, and hearing from both the pros and the cons would be really helpful.

BB

I can say that it was DD's interest that led us to start. We went to a lot of children's concerts and at one festival the conductor/ impresario let the children play little violins and then sit next to their favorite musician/ instrument during the concert! We're also lucky that her school has a mandatory violin program for the little kids and mandatory band for the bigger kids. It has really helped encourage her.

Our guy was very busy and distractable and I didn't really like the idea of giving him an expensive stick (bow) to run around with, so we did wait until he was 5 1/2 so he had a bit more self-contol to start. But there are many kids who start younger and do fine. They will often start the little ones with a fake violin so that they can practice how to hold and take care of it. When they prove they can, then they give them the real thing.

Somewhere there is a balance in the practice amount and intensity. I see some parents who are too intense and get really freaked out that if there kid doesn't practice hard every day they will never play well. Many of these families seem to burn out after a few years and their kids come to hate playing. On the other end, the parents who do not convey their own commitment and are too wishy washy also tend to have kids that give up. We shot for a middle ground of "good enough" which for us was some practice most days. Sometimes that was only working on one thing he needed to for 5 minutes. Other times it was listening to the CD and extra time instead of playing. Some days, he might practice for 15 minutes. Often I felt like we weren't taking it seriously enough especially when I met the really intense parents. But 7 years into it, most of the "intense" families have dropped by the wayside and our DS is still going strong. 5 minutes a day for 7 years adds up to a lot of practice! The key is that it something ought to happen almost every day, but it doesn't have to be a big part of every day. Does that make sense?

I think that's very smart, acs.

We're considering piano lessons for DS7, so while I have no advice to give, I am reading this thread with interest. Especially the advice about practice time and finding that balance...

Thanks all! Good thread!

I don't have anything to add but I have to say that I just spent 20 minutes trying to get my child to do ANY piano practice. He's not doing Suzuki. He begged at age 5 to learn the piano. We started him at 5 1/2 (he's almost 7). Just in the last 3 months or so he has started refusing to practice. I don't know if it is a stage or if he is bored or if he is being rebellious. It makes me nuts - putting out all that money for lessons and he keeps doing the same songs at every lesson because he won't practice. If he'd practice just a few minutes every day between lessons, he'd get stars on those songs and could move on.

Didn't mean to hijack the thread with my rant but it just makes me so irate that he won't practice and I have no control over it. We've done rewards, consequences, punishment, promises. Nothing works. The teacher told me to back off so I have but it just kills me. I feel taken advantage of because he won't practice and I can't "make" him. It can become quite a battle and even when I give up the battle I feel frustrated.

Thanks for letting me vent. Good luck with your decision.

My DS7 started Suzuki piano at 5 - the year before kindergarten for him (he has a fall birthday). He's been taking a bit over 2 years. He was asking to do it. For him it has been WONDERFUL. And believe me, he has plenty of days he doesn't want to practice. I sit down with him and don't allow anyone or anything to interrupt us when we're practicing. I throw in lots of games and incentives, etc. Many performance opportunities (ie showing off) help a lot. And I think you just need to know if you start young, parents need to be very involved and consistent in my experience. And I like who talked about being "good enough". We take a day off every week and usually have 1 or 2 lighter practice days. Sometimes if we're preparing for something or his teacher is running a contest, we have some heavier weeks. Make sure you find a teacher who really "gets" and clicks with your child.

I also grew up taking Suzuki violin and my brother took Suzuki piano. I personally had a wonderful Suzuki experience. DD4 is likely to start Suzuki violin (hopefully) this fall. She seems more ready than DS did at 4 - not quite as squirrelly and she's asking to start now as well. We have a waiting list where we take lessons - it's a very popular program.

I also highly recommend reading Nutured by Love.

Good luck!

I only played xylophone :-) as a child and from very early on felt that the lack of ability to play a musical instrument (in my case I was thinking piano)was somehow making me less of a full person, if you get what I mean.
DS started taking Suzuki violin at 3.5 at his own insistance (long story). I was taking lessons with him an practiced with him daily. DD was dragging my big, full size violin and constantly taking it out of tune, so she got her own little violin for her second birthday and I started playing with her at home (basically open strings, when older brother was practicing) and she also started formal lessons around 3.5 years of age.
It is a huge time commitement on the parent side, HUGE, but practice is quite easy and short when kids are little. It is more of a "play" for them. And rewards are cheap when your kids are young. My kids never had any "major" problemswith practice, that is refusing it, till DS hit middle school, but the attitide at the house is that he has invested so much time in this already and he is so good, that it would be very foolish and unwise to quit. See, problems generally start when thir lives become more busy and they become more profficient on their instruments and therefore have to practice more/longer. DS13 and DD11 practice 70 minutes every day at this point during school year. At summer it is different, for example, DS does not practice at all for a month due to other commitements and DD practices 2 to 3 hours each day.
I do not think that you can overschedule your child with an instrument at the age of 4. You will have to make choices, but the time commitement for the next few years will be minimal.
Both my kids also play non suzuki piano, started at 8 and 6 respectively.

I took DD before she was 3.5 to get evaluated to start violin, since she kept talking about it. This was the Russian method, because Suzuki wanted one of us to take the lessons with her at 3.

The Russian method does not start them that early, but they thought she could, but they would start with piano, twice a week lessons. Practice was expected to be 10-15 minutes per day. We thought it was a lot for her schedule and we just opted for a Dalcroze music class and enrolled her in group piano this fall.

She does a long day at Montessori, ballet and gymnastics, so she is pretty active. So it depends on your child. I am thinking of sending her to the Special Music School instead of the gifted school for grades K-6 because I think it would suit her.

I had also started with Music Together at 5 months and although she loves music, she adores ballet and takes class with kids at least a year older. So sometimes it is hard to make choices on how your child should spend their free time.

Ren

DS5 is learning the electric guitar. Started about 6 months ago. 1/2hr a week leson with 15 min a day practice 5 days a week. We have to push sometimes for the practice. Durring thesummer he is taking a break. If he still likes to play we will start up again.
DW would love him to play the piano, he's not interested. Older DS15 plays the guitar so he wants to be like big brother.

I'm going to go back to this thought. We did music because it was something my husband and i both grew up with. it "fit" our family. i wouldn't have done it just for the theoretical values or discipline. especially because before 6-ish (at least for gt kids otherwise maybe older) it really is a responsibility on the parent.

for those reading along with interest - you typically rent violins for little kids so you are buying every time their arms grow and you aren't making a huge commitment before you know if it will work out. susuki that's been referenced means the goal is to teach by ear not sheet music reading. and yes, typically children start with a pretend instrument until they learn all the piece, a bow hold, and clap out some songs before being 'awarded' a real violin.

And I will also say, DS7 pushing 8 (and is most likely in the HG+ range) still needs a lot of guidance and help in his practice. He loves the result of his practice, but would not do it without some guidance. Many suzuki teachers really want parents to be involved and practicing with their kids until 11-13. I really treat the music thing as a non-negotiable. I do try to make it as fun as possible, but it's not really an option for him at our house. In particular because it is the only thing that has consistently challenged him for the past 2+ years.

Thanks to everyone for a really interesting discussion. I'm following along closely, and am hearing some very helpful perspectives. It seems clear that lots of the parents who have encouraged their children to start playing an instrument early are themselves musicians or people who played instruments from a young age. My DW and I fit that category too, and perhaps it's not surprising that people who value something hope their children will value it too. But another consistent refrain seems to be that music is an area where children can learn how important it is to work hard. People say that about athletics too, sometimes. With kids for whom accomplishment at school comes easy, this can be a valuable lesson.

I wonder if anyone has any suggestions in general about how to teach the value of working hard at something. I noticed lately with DS that he loves playing math games that are easy for him, but if he has to think then he switches off. It's as if he's scared to think. I don't believe that he's scared to fail, since that doesn't seem to be a general trait of his. He just seems unhappy that the answer hasn't immediately popped into his head, and so he starts trying anything that occurs to him. The problem doesn't require much thinking, and it's thinking he knows how to do, but somehow he'll do anything to avoid it. I suppose the equivalent in music is playing the pieces you already know well instead of the pieces that need work. Any tricks for encouraging the latter?

BB

I read somewhere that Steve Jobs was an underachiever until his dad used money as an "incentive" for good grades. His grades improved drastically and then he was skipped.
All kids have different motivations and when a kid is smart enough to talk their way out of ever doing anything the least bit difficult I think it's appropriate to find alternative "inspiration". My kids never have nor will accept "because I told you." So, I devised an incentive program.
Basically, I bought a bunch of junk they wanted really bad. Mostly stuff I would never agree to buy them simply because it is junk! I stuffed it in a bag and made a chart for each of them. I told them when the chart is full of stickers, they can pick out whatever they want. This way, I never "make" them do anything. They are in total control of completing the tasks, totally on their own time table. They love this. The beauty of it is that I decide what warrants a sticker. I've taken things that aren't there fav's but I think are challenging and made them the tasks they need to complete in order to get the stars. So they think they are in control, but really I am! These tasks aren't all academic either. Straightening up their room to my specifications is EXTREMELY challenging for them! Everyone is happy. I get to see them stretch themselves and work outside their comfort zone. There is no arguing or pushing involved because they decide when they do the tasks and choose the tasks with the caveat each task can only be completed once per day.
And they get a "feel good" moment for doing something they might avoid simply because it is a little difficult. I know, it's somewhat Pavlov's dog, but aren't we all that way. My husband says he does a great job at work because he takes pride in his efforts and that should be the internal motiviation we should be looking for in them. I asked him if he would still work his butt off if they stopped paying him. And come on, they're 5 and 8. Webkinz are THEIR currency!

Great idea, Neato. I know all too well what BaseballDad is describing. Thanks.

DD9 asked to play the flute since age 5. I offered piano (my instrument) or violin, but she had no interest. I called a music school when she was 6 and they said to wait until 7. When she turned 7 we began flute lessons once a week and discovered that she could read music. She like playing but isn't always disciplined to practice as recommended. Her teacher is easy going and we advance at a comfortable pace, faster or slower depending on other commitments.

I grew up in a musical family and starting an instrument/age depends on a lot of factors. The instrument for one, some can be mastered earlier than others. Flute takes great coordination of breathing and finger dexterity. It can be frustrating to try to make a sound for weeks and then figuring out fingering for each note vs. instant sound of pressing a piano key.

Since the OPs DS is 4, I would suggest a group music lesson at first to see interest. Also, allow your child to try different instruments and see what interests him. Suzuki is a group lesson but in its true form it is a big commitment and not a great fit for everyone. Our DS3.5 is asking for a violin, but I wouldn't think Suzuki would be right for him. Plus I can't imagine sitting in a room full of beginners listening to all that screeching, LOL!!!

Different towns have different ways of setting up their Suzuki, so I won't speak for everyone here. But in our area Suzuki is not primarily a group experience. For us, Suzuki has been weekly individual lessons and a monthly group lesson. The group lesson includes children of all levels including people who are in high school and even college and been playing for 10 or more years. So there is hardly any screeching at the group lesson. In fact, hearing the older kids play has been really inspiriational to DS.

'Neato - your methods sound a lot like ours. Our current incentives for DS involve Pokemon cards and "fun" computer time. They vary every few months or so. DS loves the fact that the challenge becomes a game.

Our Suzuki is set up like acs' too. Weekly private lesson and monthly group for piano. Violin has group almost weekly (even a bigger commitment!)

Both my kids took a kindermusik style class from age 1 that I think really helped pave the way for music lessons. The last class especially was wonderful - teaching beginning music reading concepts and trying out many kinds of instruments, learning about instrument families, etc.

I will tell you what works here as far as math is concerned. Competition with dad!
Example = I spend a lot of time with my DS, a math oriented kid, in a car, driving him places. This spring he was working on some tough math problems. I suggested he uses his "car time", and he was trying to. He was solving those math problems until he got stuck on one and then started saying that it is way too difficult for him and how he needs dad to actually help him. Well, he calls dad on his cell and says that he is absolutely stuck on question so and so and that this is the area of math he never had any exposure to. DH, who happened to have those questions in front of him (a well organized family working towards a common goal says "let me think". DH calls DS ten minutes later and says "I've got the answer". DS screams "DON'T TELL ME" and starts writing vigourously in his notebook. Two minutes later he screams "I GOT IT" and calls DH to check the answer with him. It is correct.
I stress the fact that it took him only 2 (two) minutes to solve a problem he thought he had no idea how to even approach.
So my answer is COMPETITION, be it with dad, be it with age mates.

Great story Ania! That sounds exactly like my DS - one minute absolutely ranting something is SO hard he absolutely cannot do it and the next minute he's off to the races.

Incogneato, I think you have a carbon copy of my kids. Webkinz are a great motivator.

My kids' piano teacher recommended using a candle for practice incentive, which the girls love. Each girl has a taper candle which burns while she practices. Each spent candle is worth roughly $5 towards a Webkinz product. With one candle they can buy something like trading cards (for those who need immediate gratification) or they can save up to buy a Webkinz animal.

acs- I like the way your Suzuki is set up. Ours is 1 group and 1 private lesson per week. Groups are by ability but it would seem very motivating to have different abilities practice together.

I did Suzuki piano and while I don't remember the entire experience, I remember having to take turns as there weren't one piano per student. I had to listen quietly and take turns, which was great for learning patience for sure!!

Yes, competition works great for our DS, too. He practices way harder for a fiddle competition than he does for a violin recital, even though the violin pieces are harder!

A few years ago, when he needed to review all his Suzuki pieces for an upcoming camp, we set up a competition between him and DH (who plays violin OK). DS assigned each song a point value and wrote the song name and point total on a slip and put them in a coffee can. For about a month before camp, whenever either of them had a free moment they would pull out a slip and see if they could play the song from memory. If they could, they got that number of points. They kept track of how many points they accumulated (honor system). Whoever got the most points at the end of the month won $25 gift certificate for a book store. The were neck and neck the whole time and eventually DS won by 1 point at the last minute--funny how that worked. LOL! But there was very little complaining about practice since he really wanted to win!

I have always liked our system. Two lessons a week would make us nuts. It had not occurred to me that anyone did them the way you describe, so now I will be even more grateful for our incredibly sane teacher.

About how long does it take a taper candle to burn? An hour, 4 hours, 10 hours? I might try this with mine and give him a Dollar Store gift card.

I don't know how long they last, but stick 'em in the freezer and they don't drip.

I like the system of incentives approach - especially when it involves longer term planning and the DC's ability to choose to go after a particular prize. We have sometimes given stickers for completing something, and he goes to a very low-key (and wonderful!) karate class that gives "stripes" (pieces of colored duct tape) after each session. The karate teacher is so terrific that I think he could get away with giving high fives and the kids would respond. But the idea of working towards something you choose seems really good.

One feature of our Suzuki Cello class that is entering the decision is that it is, by comparison with some of the others described, rather time consuming. It involves a private lesson and a group lesson every week, plus an additional Dalcroze class every week. Three different sessions every week plus daily practice. Seems like a lot.

We use 2 sticker charts. Something amazing earns a short term sticker. A finished practice earns a long term sticker. He can earn 7-10 short term stickers for a 20 minute session of computer. When he gets to 100 long term stickers there is some bigger incentive. He has gotten to pick out a restaurant for us to go to (one that coincidentally has vintage computer games) and has gotten Pokemon cards.

I wonder if he'd like a Webkinz? I bet both DS7 and DD4 would. DD4 never had any interest in the computer (compared to her brother anyway who was begging to play at 2). The last month all of a sudden she can and will try to play almost anything her brother is doing.

Oh my goodness BaseballDad, 3 classes a week for cello? Ouch! Is that the only program available locally? Our strings are 2 most weeks and that is sounding a bit painful.

I'm guessing our weekend group attendance if we do strings with DD4 may be spotty. It's not like we're going to stop going out of town. In particular if we are homeschooling.

Dumb question alert, Dumb question alert!

Webkinz?

BB

Hereby appreciating Kimck's appropriate astonishment at 3 cello classes per week. It seems crazy to me too. The thing is, there are other places to take string instrument lessons in the area. But this is the most convenient, the one we've been taking Dalcroze classes at for 2 years, and also the one with the best teachers. And if there's any lesson I feel I've learned in the last couple of years, it is that a good teacher, who has a good rapport with your kids, is priceless. I go to DS4's karate class as often as possible just to watch the instructor. He is a master. I'm talking about mixed-age classes full of kids between the ages of 2 and 14 - sometimes as many as 25 of them! - and he somehow manages to take them all seriously, to motivate them, to keep them in line, to be warm and humble but also appropriately stern when necessary, and to teach them great life lessons in a fun atmosphere that all the kids love. I couldn't give a wit about karate per se, but I think it's worth it for DS (and for me!) to be influenced by this teacher. I can't say the teachers at the music school are quite as generally talented, but they do really know what they're doing in working with young kids. And there is a very large community of great young kids at the school. That's the main reason it seems like a possible option. But I agree. Three classes a week is a lot.

Thanks for the clarification about Webkinz, gratified3. Still not quite sure what it is, but pretty clear that I'm not looking forward to it. Ah, well.

Just to be clear about our relation to music. DW and I both grew up playing instruments - piano and violin for me, piano and classical guitar for DW. DW's mom is a pianist turned piano teacher; we both think it's important for DS to have music in his life. Neither of us has any hope or desire that it will be a career for him, however. Indeed, I think it's probably a very difficult way to make a living, and I wouldn't encourage it at all as a career choice unless it were clearly the thing in the world that motivated him most. (I say this having chosen an academic career, which seems to me to have similar upside and downside potentials.) Still, he does seem very moved by music, and he shows some rather strong interest in being able to play instruments. I do believe that the kids who are in this program like it a lot, and that it would be a good group of kids for DS to get involved with. And I think he could gain a sense of accomplishment if he made some progress. But all these things are tempered by the fact that he's only 4, and by the fact that there are other things he enjoys more. If there were Suzuki baseball I would definitely sign him up.

BB

Here you go BaseballDad

http://www.webkinz.com

Don't let your 4 year old see it! DD4 just saw me bring that page up and she's flipping out.

Thanks, Kimck. I think.

BB

I feel like I've just witnessed a crack exchange!


Don't do it BB! You'll be sorry!

About the sticker chart. Because the girls see what I put into the bag and have to "work" to pick something out, I'm hoping that it will eliminate a lot of the instant gratification, entitlement issues that seem to be the norm today.
It usually takes about 3 weeks, give or take, for them to complete the chart.

Are you referring to the webkinz link or to my newfound addiction to this board? This is worse than e-mail. Must get back to work, must get back to work. [Zombie eyes.]

<Must get my fix...Must get my fix...>

Ahem.

No, um, she meant the Webkinz site. It's kid-crack.

As for the forum, it's too late for you, BBD. Too late for all of us, in fact. But they say the first step to getting better is admitting that you have a problem.

K: "Problem? What problem?"

LOL!

Yes. I guess it was inevitable but I was hoping to avoid Webkinz for a while longer. However, DD received one for her 9th birthday.

Oh! Then you almost made it! What a shame to get so close and fall to the evil invaders anyway.

Well, you fought the good fight, Cathy. <Fist raised in solidarity>

I just listend to this interview on NPR.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92642058

(make sure you listen to him talk and then listen to his music)

It takes several hours for the candles to burn down, but the exact number varies widely depending on the height and quality of the candle. My kids love the candles but it may just be the pyromaniac gene they inherited from their mother.