Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion How do you define "trying" to a first grader?

Yes, I agree with alot of what has been said up above. I would drop the "trying" thing because she probably is trying, but with a 2e kid, simply trying isn't necessarily going to get it done. And you don't want to her start thinking, "I'm already trying as hard as I can and it's not good enough, so why bother?"

I think I would also formally request (in writing) an evaluation. Having a great teacher is a great start, but even a great teacher isn't going to cure her of an actual disability. It sounds like her difficulty is not just in handwriting, if she's also having trouble with using organizers, reading graphic novels, and all that. I don't see how any of that will be solved by formal handwriting instruction or just having a great teacher.

Also, have she had a vision evaluation? Like by a pediatric optometrist? I would consider that, if you haven't tried it already.

aeh, for the CBM assessmnet, what are they asked to write? Or is it copying?

For the CBM writing assessments, they get a writing prompt, which they complete with a brief story or personal narrative. It is not copying, but original writing. ("One day I was walking on the beach, when I found a bottle. There was something in it. When I opened the bottle...").

This pdf explains how to administer and score a 4-minute writing assessment:

http://www.jimwrightonline.com/pdfdocs/cbmresources/cbmdirections/cbmwrit.pdf

This page has a few comments about writing probes, and a form for making prompts, including some clickable pre-made prompts (in the sidebar):

http://www.interventioncentral.org/teacher-resources/curriculum-based-measurement-probes-writing

The writing assessments on the PAL-II include both copying (sentence and paragraph) and composition. If you're going for a strong school assessment, this would be best, but if you think you're going to have to document on your own, then collect the CBM probe data.

Thanks for the links/explanation. I don't know if DD has done anything in school so far this year (other than math assessments), and I don't know how much of her issues with writing last year were behavioral/anxiety or if she is really behind. I think I'll try having her write and timing her, however what she does at home (or one on one with an assessor) may be completely different than what she does in class. It's the same with DS. He writes fine with the spec. ed teacher, but could end up doing nothing in class. It depends on whether he likes the topic or if he spaces out.

I don't know your ds, so I maybe it is this, but if there's an LD at play the difference in output between the classroom and working with the SPED teacher might be due to something completely different from either not liking the topic or simply spacing out. For instance, simply working one on one could mean his anxiety over working on a frustrating subject is significantly reduced. The SPED teacher may also be giving him more specific or structured directions, she may be prompting him when he's stuck etc.

I'd also dig a bit to determine what's happening when he does "space out" - this happened a lot with my son - or what looked like spacing out - was because he was lost and didn't know what to do. When you think your ds doesn't like a topic or isn't interested in it, look closely at the type of topic - is it writing on a topic that he has knowledge of, or is it an open-ended question about something that may require him to organize new thoughts in his head?

polarbear

ps - when our ds was in early elementary, part of what made it difficult to recognize that he had an LD related to written expression was the nature of how writing was approached in the classroom - each assignment was different in some way from the previous assignment, so it wasn't easy to see ds was having difficulty with x/y/z but was able to accomplish a/b/c - because one day the class was told to write about x using y method, the next day they'd be writing an a story based on b method etc. Because he could do a/b/c but not x/y/z, it looked like there were days he was trying and days he was just spacing out or not trying. Plus many young children don't come out and say "I can't do this because ___" - they don't know why they can't do it or why it's tough. So the communication that they "can't" do it or it's tough is coming through staring out into space, losing focus, paying attention to other things, acting out, whatever - basically they are communicating in a way that's easily mistaken for lack of interest or lack of motivation etc.

polarbear, thanks for the info. He has a history of being unmotivated with various things so it's hard to tell. The second things get a little bit challenging he doesn't want to put in the effort. Last year at this time his writing was ridiculous, but the second we moved him to a new school it looked 300 percent better, because he was trying harder (for whatever reason). Then when we tried a trial of ritalin it improved even more and he sped up a lot (according to his last teacher). He actually met his writing "goal" on the IEP but not the OT goal so they will continue to pull him for writing. He has a new IEP manager (who is also a spec. ed teacher who will be working on writing with him) and I told her that there is probably a large discrepancy between what he will do with her when he is pulled, and what he does in the classroom when he's on his own. She said she'd keep an eye on it and it might make more sense for spec. ed to go into class rather than pull him. I'm actually more worried about DD and her writing so maybe this spec. ed teacher can help me as well--I'm just waiting to see if her teachers communicate with me about issues and what they say. Then I'll probably have to request an eval depending on what they tell me. I suspect her issues are a combination of her ADHD, handwriting issues, not being able to organize thoughts, anxiety, perfectionism, and plain old stubborness.