Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy DS7 just not working at school

Hi all,

I really need help. DS7 has overall iq of 132, so moderately gifted. He also has SPD which seemed to mask any signs of giftedness. He doesn't follow any of the "typical" checklists/milestones, apart from early reading.

School has been an uphill battle all the way, pushing big time for "something" to help attention, concentration, never supplied any ideas about WHY he isn't concentrating when he is clearly capable of the work.

Today we were called for a meeting with the HOD and the class teacher. They are worried about his very negative attitude towards school work as he is constantly asking "why" he has to do anything and would rather talk to friends/play with his shoe/lie on the ground - anything except do the work.

They also want him to get everything right before they will offer extension - so if he gets all 10 sums right, then they'll offer "more" (of the same - maybe adding a 0 here and there...). They claim they simply cannot offer higher level work before he has shown them his mastery of the current level, even though the report with his iq test states he is 2 years ahead (roughly).

When I state that he is doing advanced work at home, they say that's "lovely" that I'm offering extension (as in oh yay now they don't have to), but refuse to see that as a reason to give him the same advanced level at school. Not before everything in the 2nd grade box is checked - and checked PERFECTLY.

I honestly don't know what to do - HOW do I motivate him to do the work when I simply, honestly cannot see why he should have to do it - and I would feel like a fraud telling him I feel he needs to do it because I don't think it's right. I think they are treating him with utter contempt and are ignoring the IQ results and wanting him to perform how they want, when they want, and then using his lack of compliance to "prove" that he isn't gifted.

They will "allow" that he's gifted in reading, since he aced his test, but they don't see he's gifted in math or anything else, plus IQ tests just measure general knowledge.

They then went on to say that everyone is gifted at something, we all have talents.

Oh, and the HOD ended with "if this was my child, I would have him repeat the year", due to his apparently huge lack of maturity, which I think (considering his relationships outside of school) instead points to a complete lack of stimulation/challenge, as well as of any true peers.

I am so frustrated and disappointed with them. My hubby agrees and says he doesn't feel we are going to get much more from this school (we are looking to change) - however he still feels we need to follow the psychologist's recommendation that he finish the year at this current school and start "fresh" at the new school next year. To me I feel like we are doing huge damage to this child by sending him to a place which demands perfection at the wrong level, isn't willing to "give" at all - no wiggle room - and is making comments to him like "come on, with your little brain you can definitely do this."

I really need help, advice - I don't know how to do this. I'm scared DS is about to lose interest in school completely - and we still have at least 10 more years to go! I want him to succeed, but more than that, I want him to be happy. All of this doesn't tell me he is happy where he is...

TIA

Big red flags all over the place in your story and I am so sorry you are having this experience.

You are correct that your son needs appropriate work for his level or his focus will not improve. It is aggravating to here that Even if he does jump through the hoops they set and meet their standards, that will lead to more hoops and more of the same.

I cringe when I hear the "everyone has gifts, everyone is talented" phrase. I have been told that and I am sorry, all people have value but they are not all gifted and talented in an academic sense. They can't be or the curve of individual variation in intelligence would not exist. And it simply is not the reality of experience.

There is a lot of research that negates any value in repeating a child at school so the comment about "if that was my son I would make him repeat" is not supported in my view, particularly if you have evidence of his ability in academics and relationships outside the school environment.

Why does the psychologist think he should stay in an unproductive environment? I can't imagine there is any value in the experience when he is not understood by the staff and no accommodations are being offered. Different story if the environment is poor out of ignorance but there is some willingness to improve it if you can educate people.

I would move, as soon as possible, for your sake and your DS IF you have that option and the emotional and physical energy to achieve it. I know they can be big IFs.

Depending on where you are there may be processes to follow to organise support for giftedness or special needs, like the SPD,but from reading here, they can take time and energy to implement. When does your school year start and finish? Do you have many months in this current setting to make it worth battling for accommodations? Do your research into the school and the state's gifted policies, if any. Is there anyone at the school or in the school district that you can talk to?

I am no expert in SPD, there are others on the forum you can give you insights into how that is impacting and some advice on managing those impacts. Depending on his particular sensitivities there may be adjustments that can be made to the environment that will help with improving focus or therapies to explore. But at the end of the day, if lack of appropriately challenging work persists, you still have to deal with that problem.

Once children become unhappy and unmotivated it has broader impacts on them and the family so you are right to be concerned and consider all your options.

The good news is that the right educational setting, whether you create it where you are or move or go to home schooling, can make a big difference in a short space of time. I know the concern about the wrong environment "damaging" your child. Take heart, kids are very resilient and bounce back fast when the situation changes for the better.

We do want our kids to be happy. I wish schools would realise that is our prime concern and part of happiness is the right level of academic challenge and appropriate supports for any LDs.

thank you!!!

Sorry I should have said: we're in South Africa... no IEPs/504s/gifted programs. There is one school for gifted kids in the country... they abolished/allowed all the extension programs to fall apart after 1994, as at the time they were filled with already advantaged kids and not enough previously disadvantaged kids. I'm stopping here before I go all political. Don't misunderstand - I am so grateful for all the changes, I'm proud to have had Nelson Mandela and all the others who stood with him to bring about change, but I'm also disappointed that some of those changes have turned out not to be for the best in the long run.

Anyway... re the SPD, he has had OT for almost 2 years and the vast majority of the hyper/hypos that were causing issues have been resolved - the OT said there's basically nothing left for her to work on. He also did The Listening Program with her and that also helped. There are still small issues with hand muscle strength and pencil grip (he has poor handwriting), but apart from working with play doh and using a pencil grip, there's not much more to do but practice - all the sensory stuff checks out within normal ranges now, he is coping with all the stimulation that used to cause meltdowns and shutdowns - or at least at this time, it seems these are "background" issues, not the main attraction.

The psychologist he is seeing for play therapy is working to address general anxiety that is related to school. Now to me, when we had the feedback session and she told us that the poor educational/academic/social fit of the school is what's causing the anxiety, I just wanted to take him out of school.. as in THAT DAY. But then she said she feels it would be best for him to finish the school year (sorry, ours generally run January to December, varies between public (gov) and private schools), and then start at the new one next year... to be honest this just doesn't make sense to me. She said herself it's a vicious cycle, poor school fit leading to anxiety leading to poor performance leading to more anxiety. I'm not sure if she just meant that IF we are going to change schools, it might be less stressful to do it after he finishes the year - new kids don't stick out as much at the beginning of the year?

But in light of this most recent meeting, I just can't see that this can be ok.

We are planning to talk to DS tonight... I want to chat about what's causing him to behave like this at school - as in, it seems like he's really not happy there right now and I just want to ask if there's a problem he's having that we can maybe help him with. He just seems so unhappy and that really upsets me. He has the potential to do well - perhaps very well - but without his needs being met, without him feeling he is being respected as a person, I don't think he's going to feel very happy at all.

The school actually twisted stuff back on that line - the HOD said to her, emotional and social happiness is far more important than academic success... it's kind of ironic that she can't see that I'm saying the same thing, but pushing in the opposite direction... he doesn't need more of the same basic crud he's been suffering through for 3 years, in a class full of average to possibly high-average ability kids, he needs MORE new stuff to excite and challenge him, kids who are reading the same books, thinking at the same level and find the same things interesting - whether they're the same age or not doesn't matter!

Right now I feel like pulling him out and homeschooling at least till the end of the year and then trying a private school next year - if we go back at all! His best friend is homeschooled and he fell in love with the idea, but I think he also fell in love with the idea of me being at home with him all day, which just isn't possible for us right now.

Oh... the gov here doesn't have any policies on gifted education at all. They have an "Inclusive education" policy, but this runs more along the lines of including kids with learning disorders than those with above average ability. They talk loosely about "differentiating curriculum" but this is not a reality in the classrooms. The HOD actually told me that the government doesn't allow them to accelerate kids above grade level... until you've done everything for the grade and are physically moved to another grade, they supposedly can't give more advanced material. They are also apparently not allowed to grade-skip a child. Repeating is wide-spread and common (a little TOO common). But advancement? Nope... unheard of. Unless you start your whole school career "early", they don't allow it.

Leaves us with very little in terms of options.

I had the sense you were nearing the end of the school year. While generally kids don't stand out as much transitioning schools at the start of the year, in reality kids move schools all the time for all kinds of reasons. If you found a good alternative school I would move anytime. A good school would help you with transition issues if any. We have moved mid year but unfortunately, from a good school to a not so good school. Hard to compare.

Sounds like you have the SPD management well underway. An incompatible school environment is going to cause anxiety and therefore exacerbate sensory issues and so on through the visious cycle as you said.

Doesn't sound like there is a system to work with as such. That can actually be ok if the school is willing and able to accommodate as they aren't tied in to a rigid set of guidelines and rules but if no school accelerates, that can be a problem.

I have no real time for differentiation. Nice idea in theory and we have seen it work once but in an already gifted class. For the most part it is a buzzword and not a reality.

Do talk to your DS. Great if he can articulate the issues but not surprising if he can't. My DD can be very hard to read on the detail of emotional issues even when grossly we can tell there is a problem. Kids really struggle with putting their feelings out there, they often can't identify the problems and they do try to protect us and please us. Follow your instincts.

What school options do you have? You mentioned home school. Can't hurt for a few months. If you homeschooled could you then put him back in a higher grade. How would schools determine what grade to put him in? Would they test or just go on his previous school grade?

Private schools? Any options there.

This would be my recommendation. We did that very thing with a school district that refused to skip, and they took our DD back at the grade level we declared without comment.

I would also recommend talking to your DS about the importance of performing well on tests, to show what he knows. We had this same conversation with our DD, when she was rushing through homework and making obvious mistakes. "You know what you're capable of, and I know what you're capable of, but the school doesn't, and you have to show them, or they'll just go on thinking we're crazy, and that they're the ones who really know what's best for you. Show them what you can do, and then we can go back to them and say, 'See, she's past this, it's too easy, so skip her.'"

ndw - I'm trying to find out if that would indeed be a possibility. I'm not sure how/if they confirm which grade is appropriate, but one of the schools we're looking at claims to work "ahead of government schools", and so does a "diagnostic" language and math test to check where new students are. I'm actually really happy with that idea - although my concern would then be are they testing across a range of grades or only putting the grade-appropriate material in front of the child based on where he's perceived to be from previous grade placement/age. They're closed until 9 Sep so I will find out then.

We're looking at 2 private schools, one only has space for grade 3 next year, not grade 4. The other seems to have space but is an all-boys school - not that I'm against them, but I want DS to have a say and I'm not sure yet how he'd feel about that. With two younger sisters it may just be his idea of heaven!

Dude, I LOVE that explanation. I've tried to explain why its important before - previously he refused to do classwork but would test (if not brilliantly, then at least) well. This year has seen a drastic drop across the board - he's stopped working in the tests as well and the teacher/HOD said that he's not failing, as such, but they're not seeing any signs at all that he is "above average" - except in reading. Frustration is.

Does anyone have any recommendations on how to counteract the "emotional immaturity" as an argument against skipping? The HOD's comment about keeping him back (if it was up to her) due to huge immaturity just grates - is there any way I can counteract this attitude? If there were a research-based checklist somewhere of "how unchallenged gifted kids behave in class" that would be awesome

though... to be honest, I don't really feel we're going to get through to the HOD/teacher at the current school. They don't get it, and they don't WANT to get it.

It was Dude who mentioned the homeschool and then grade skip option in another thread and I remembered it because we considered it. So kudos to Dude.

So many resources. Start with "A Nation Deceived" a comprehensive review of acceleration research. Freely available on the internet in two volumes from The Acceleration Institute. Don't be intimidated, it is an easy read and has lots of references. Here is the address for part one, sorry, thought it would paste the link.

http://www.accelerationinstitute.org/nation_deceived/nd_v1.pdf

Just went to the main page of the institute and you can get full report as an iBook.
http://www.accelerationinstitute.org

Next stop hoagiesgifted.org a website of some renown for resources. So many that it is easy to get distracted. Start with Gifted 101 section and browse.
And of course the Davidson Institute has an excellent database.

For how the emotional aspects of giftedness, I am currently reading the iBook of "Off The Charts: Asynchrony and the Gifted Child"

I can recommend this book of essays with easy to read info including research into the emotional aspects of giftedness. I think you would find it useful in your current position.

Also available on kindle and hard copy:

Why Gifted Kids Get Poor Grades and What You Can do About It by Sylvia Rimm
The Underachieving Gifted Child by Del Siegle

For general reading:

A Parents guide to Gifted Children

SENG is an organisation supporting the emotional development of gifted children and their website is worth a look too.

Thanks ndw!!!

I checked in with an acquaintance who homeschooled until 5th grade then placed her eldest son into school. She said there were no issues at all, they took him without doing any tests or checking his skill level - though I do think this was at a government school, it still shows that it is possible...

Lots of reading to do... good thing I love it. Many thanks for the support!

Sounds like a frustrating experience. Are you sure that your DS would cooperate and do the work if given a higher level at school? Or could the problem possibly be something else (maybe in addition to boredom)? DD became sloppy at school last year and I think it was partly because some of it was boring, but also because she was anxious, 2e (so she struggled with some things like writing), and it was a bad fit with the teacher, causing passive aggression. She is in a new school/new environment and is back to acting "normal". I guess what I'm trying to say is that you don't want a situation where he is given higher level work and then your DS still doesn't achieve. Then that will give them even more reason to dismiss all your concerns. If you find a better fit in terms of a school, I would go for it. We moved DS last year 4 months before the school year ended and he thrived in the new environment. He had been getting sloppy as well at the old school because the teacher did not expect anything of him. It was never a concern--she just didn't care what he did. A new environment allows the child to "start over", so to speak, rather than continuing on in a downward spiral.

Very much worth asking. Apart from boredom/inappropriate work, I would ask

--(because of the SPD) whether autism spectrum disorders were considered/ruled out. (Lots of gifted people on spectrum are missed in the diagnostic process because their strong language skills aren't "typical.") Kids with ASD often resist schoolwork with a "what's the point" attitude.

--are there possible LDs or ADHD? If a child has trouble with handwriting or decoding or any other component skills, they often will refuse work.

--what is your child like at home? Will he do chores willingly, or do you get the same "important to you, not important to me" attitude?

I'd really look at all the pieces, not just the giftedness.