Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment SB 5 or WISC V? Mathy Kid

DS9's psych will be doing a new test on him in the next couple of months. He did the WISC IV and his overall IQ was 123. However, DS9 is very mathematically gifted, not verbally gifted, and the WISC IV did not show that. He was not given any of the extra subtests either.

So, we are applying to two schools for next school year and both require IQ testing. DS9's psych really wants to use the WISC V but I am not sure if that is the best choice.

So, which is best for mathy kids?

A recent thread
http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....5491/Ability_testing_for_young_boys.html
with links to earlier ones.

I was on that one but it is more a discussion on the WISC IV vs other tests, not the WISC V. DS9's psych is really impressed by the WISC V but after the huge discrepancy between the WISC IV and the KTEA II scores I want to be sure he gets the test he really needs. I already know he is not gifted verbally though he is advanced and above average. I want to make sure whatever test he does is the one right for his actual skills, if that makes sense.

The comment that made me most hesitant to go forward with the SB5 was how many otherwise-gifted kiddos the test missed - but obviously, that has not been EVERYONE'S experience. If you like your tester, and your tester likes the WISC V for your DS, I would probably go with that. Also, that implies that your tester is likely comfortable with the test and its administration.

Once we found someone we respected and trusted for testing, their opinions became pretty important.

I will be curious to hear whether there is significant confusion about what is "gifted-level scoring" on the WISC V once we start hearing about results. From stumbling across discussions about the WISC IV, it seems like when the WISC IV was released that discussions went on for quite some time about its differences from earlier tests, why the GAI should be considered for gifted kiddos, etc. It does seem like it takes some time (possibly quite some time) for everyone to understand a new instrument.

For math-y kids:

The pros of the WISCV:
1. It has a fluid reasoning index, separate from the visual spatial index, so you are not confounding spatial and abstract reasoning.
2. There is an ancillary scale, that the examiner can choose to derive from the figure weights and arithmetic subtests, called quantitative reasoning.
3. The new GAI is weighted with two verbal, two fluid reasoning, and only one visual spatial, which reduces the time and motor element in the GAI (previously block design was one-fourth of the GAI, now it's only one-fifth).
4. Verbal is now two-sevenths of the FSIQ, where it used to be three-tenths, so very slightly less weight in the FSIQ.
5. Picture concepts is not a core fluid reasoning subtest, which reduces the verbal content of fluid reasoning.
6. An ancillary nonverbal index can be derived.
7. The subtest ceiling is supposedly more robust than the old WISC.
8. The norms are as current as they can be.
9. Linked to KTEA-III achievement test & WIAT-III.

The cons of WISCV:
1. Examiners are not yet familiar with test administration and interpretation (though generally experienced evaluators should have no problem picking up the new subtests, especially if they have been giving the WPPSI-IV and WAIS-IV, as the new subtests on the WISC-V are largely variants of subtests from those two tests).
2. Extended norms have not yet been released, although supposedly, they are under development.

The pros of SBV:
1. Examiners are familiar with it and its clinical interpretation.
2. It has existing extended norms (but not all examiners have them).
3. It has also has a quantitative reasoning cluster.
4. Nonverbal quantitative reasoning can be calculated separate from verbal quantitative reasoning.
5. An overall nonverbal area score can be derived.
6. Linked to WJIII achievement.

The cons of SBV:
1. Decade-old norms.
2. Significant verbal content in the nonverbal cluster.

For what it's worth, personal preference: if I were your examiner, with the referral question and history you have posted, I would also want to try the WISCV on your ds.

DS is the same way, in that his talent is in math and non-verbal and there was a big gap. I think 27 points with non-verbal ability being in the 140's. Although I think part of that was because he simply did not feel like answering the verbal questions. His speech pathologist gave him a language test a few months ago (about a year after the WISC so he was more mature, 7 instead of 6) and her description of the test made it sound similar to what is asked on the WISC, and he scored in the 99th percentile.
Did you have a GAI calculated on the WISC IV? If not, that might be in the gifted range and the school "should" accept that.

Did the psych say why the WISC V would be better for a "mathy" kid? I'm curious about this. We may end up having to re-test if the district doesn't accept his old scores.

His GAI was actually lower than his FSIQ by about 10 points. That is one of the big issues. After the KTEA from last week the psych is really questioning the validity of the WISC IV he administered.

The WISC V supposedly has more in the way of math than the WISC IV but I am not very familiar with it yet. All I know is the WISC IV was apparently not the best test for DS9.

aeh, He does really want to try the WISC V with DS9. I'm just nervous because the WISC IV was not the right test for him. You are familiar with his recent test from my other posts. The giftedness is there it's just finding the right test to show his giftedness.

The psych goes through the training next month for administration of the WISC V but he is already familiar with it. Another thing I have to worry is that the WISC V is not on the approved list of IQ tests because it's so new.