Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Gifted Traits as Toddlers

Just wondering -- how gifted are your children and what special things were they doing in the toddler years?

I'm asking because I have a DD2.5 who clearly shows signs of GT. However, I'm not having her tested until she's getting closer to going to school. In the meantime, my DH and I are always trying to analyze how GT she might be. Sometimes we think just MG, other times HG or even PG. She seems to be learning even more quickly now than she did just a few months ago.

I know all children develop at different rates and some may not show signs of being GT until later than the toddler/pre-school years. But if anyone can remember some of the special things your child did at this time and how GT they are from tests, I'd be very interested to know. It's perhaps the closest I can get to figuring out how GT my DD is until she's old enough to be tested.

Thanks!

Have you looked at this? http://www.educationaloptions.com/levels_giftedness.htm

My recollections of DD at 2.5 are a little hazy. At that age she couldn't get enough of being read to. She was verbal very early. She was able to draw a large capital E with crayon on paper. At age 3.5, she announced to her grandparents that she would "now do an interpretive dance". She then performed a dance to show a seed sprouting and blooming into a flower. She could recite "The Night Before Christmas". Just before she turned four, she begged me to teach her to read. She picked it up very quickly and has had her nose buried in books ever since. Her WISC scores at age 8: GAI~MG, VCI~HG. Her FSIQ is not valid due to a visual/motor integration problem.

At 2.5, DS knew all the letters and letter sounds and was just beginning to sound out words like CAT, BUG, etc. He was beginning to add and subtract and could count to at least 30. His reading and math skills have developed a full year (or more) earlier than DD's. His WPPSI-III score at age 4.5: FSIQ~EG.

For my definitions of MG, HG, EG, PG, I'm going by this chart:

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/highly_profoundly.htm

Grat-

My dd sure hit it off with your social butterfly! I have a feeling that if you were to retest, she'd blow it out of the water.

I am interested in this as well, my dd is 2 years and a couple of months, so it's all very fresh in my head, no testing as yet (do they even do that?), I'm pretty sure she's "blazingly smart" as my dh puts it.
Here's some of her latest, I would be curious if this rings any bells for people with older children:
definitely a music lover, calls out for repeated viewings of the Nutcracker, gets near frantic when the classical music station 'turns off' the music to tell you what's coming up next. Knows by heart many children's rhymes and songs (abc song, I'm a little tea pot, hot cross buns, etc.) and makes up plenty of others. I remember telling her to stop singing at the top of her lungs in a restaurant because others were trying to eat and she just launched into a hearty rendition of "TRYIN' TO EAT, TRYIN' TO EAT" which she made up on the spot.

She has a very rich vocabulary, both her baby sitters are astounded at her ability to communicate. Three and four syllable words are no problem for her, her grammar is usually spot on, with an occaisional mistake which she will sometimes correct on her own.
Her coordination and vigor seem ahead of normal for her age. She is defniitely 'large and in charge'. For a while I thought she was considered bright by so many people because she is just extremely outgoing, but I more and more feel there's definitely something going on in that brain that is at least early for her age.
First word was at 9 mos, which I think is early.
Walking was average, exactly 12 months, give or take a couple of days.
Not sure how 'normal for her age' these are:
Today she started using a pair of scissors somewhat deftly - straight lines only, but didn't seem like she was going to hurt herself. Since at least 1.5 years: when asked to count to 5 can recite to 10 or higher depending on her mood. Now starting to recognize some of the numbers on paper. Can really count objects up to 3 with accuracy (as opposed to recitation of a string of number names).

Hoosier-

If you want to post a little more about your toddler, us old timers might make a few speculations. Just keep in mind that certain behaviors will shout PG, but kids who do not do these things may also be PG. Early reading, for instance, is a big clue, but there are plenty of PG kids who don't read until a more typical age.

I've got four PG kiddos and each has had a unique developmental path, though all were self taught early readers.

I think it's really hard to tell from early milestones. According to my mother, I didn't really talk at all (except to say, "Mama") until I was three. She was quite concerned but decided I was ok because I could follow complex, multistep verbal instructions at age two. One day when I was three I started to talk--the first thing I said was, "Can I have a drink of water?" LOL, maybe I didn't talk until I actually needed something I've always been uncoordinated and didn't do any physical stuff early. Socially, I was a very late bloomer. I tested HG in grade school.

My twice exceptional son who had a 50% delay in motor skills at 12 months but was identifying letters before he was two and read his first easy reader book without being taught at 2 1/2 only a year after he started walking and could name words that were spelled out for him and could do Reader Rabbit First Grade at age 3. He was also very talkative and liked to use big words in his speech. He has not had an IQ test, only an individual achievement test. The educational psychologist guessed his IQ to be in the highly gifted range based on the information we gave him and the results of the achievement test.

My 3 y/o daughter was alert at birth and put her fingers in her mouth just before 1 month. First word at 9 months, combined words at 13 months, sentences at 15-17 months (hard to tell because she vocalized constantly). She had a repetoire of songs at 18 months and could hit the notes.

She started writing letters at 2 1/4 yrs. When she was 3 1/4, she told me she wanted to read. So I wrote CAT and she sounded it out. They do sounds at day care, but no one talked about tracking from left to right or combining sounds as far as I know. She wanted me to give her a spelling test in May and wrote "I see a dog," "feet," and "fast" correctly, including separating the words.

She begs the day care provider for homework. It's mostly kindergarten level stuff and has been very easy for her for months.

She took steps quite late (14.5 months) and didn't really walk for a month or so after that.

My 6 y/o wanted to learn about dinosaurs when he was just 2. He probably would have started learning their names before that if Mom and Dad had understood what was going on. He could distinguish similar dinosaurs (ex. different dromeosaurs) before 3 by looking at drawings of their heads, even when they weren't drawn to scale. I didn't teach him this. He could learn from documentaries about dinosaurs before he was 3. He could identify a skull as amphibian when he was 5 ("What kind of skull is that?"), and I didn't teach him this. He's EXTREMELY observant.

He could sound out words before 4 but wasn't interested in learning to read until 5 1/2.

My eldest asked us to teach him to read when he was 3 1/2. He thrives on instruction and soaks it up like a sponge (when he's in the mood). He wanted to learn how to play chess when he was 4 or 5 and was playing games in kindergarten. He wasn't very good, but he was playing properly.

They've never been tested so I have no IQ info.

Val

If anyone can give me an idea or has had similar experiences your children as little ones, that would be interesting. Here's the lowdown on my DD2.5.

She has never been advanced with gross motor skills, crawling and walking at the average time.
She started speaking about 25 words at 17 months and then just went in fast forward with her speech.
Before 2, she could:
speak in 5-word sentences
recognize the entire alphabet, upper and lower case (22 months)
knew all the sounds each letter makes
could count to 20
recited books we read to her only once or twice
memorized various nursery rhyme songs after hearing them a few times
could sight-read about 25 words in both upper and lower case or mixed (dog, cat, elmo, mommy, go, stop, etc)
could spell her name out loud (20 months)
knew all her shapes and colors (20 months)

Now at 2.5:
solves puzzles of 24 pieces (I haven't gotten anything bigger than that yet)
operates the computer mouse perfectly, opens certain programs and navigates through websites (right now she's drawing on the computer with free software, Tux Paint)
completes a 12-card memory game on the computer
comprehends a large vocabulary from us - we talk to her like she's 4 or 5 because she responds better to it (our family probably thinks we're nuts)
She can type her name out on the computer
Started teaching herself to sign the alphabet by herself


She does not read yet, but I think she's close. Lately she's been naming all the letters in a word and then "reading" it (for instance she took my lotion bottle, read all the letters in the word "continuous" and then said, "Mommy's lotion!" as if that's what she was spelling out).
DD has always LOVED being read to. When she was 18mo or so, she became obsessed with this Pooh ABC book so that I had to read to her at least 25 times a day, no exaggerating. We realized later she was trying to memorize all of the letters. Today at lunch, she said, "I'll stay with mommy while daddy mows the grass." She stuttered a little, but I thought that was a long sentence for 2.5.

Dottie, we are doing our best to enjoy DD while we can (although some days get a little frustrating, as life with any toddler can be). I try to write down as much as I can about her -- they say the funniest things!


I think I asked my original question on this thread because sometimes my DH and I feel like we're reading too much into what DD does. Our family has not been the most supportive, often discarding her behavior as nothing out of the ordinary. Sometimes we really second-guess ourselves even though we know in our hearts our DD is not "normal."
Any thoughts or speculations about my DD are welcome.

Thanks for the additional details, Hoosier. I'd say she definitely sounds G, but what flavor of G is hard to say. The memory for songs, books, sight words etc. stands out to me, along with her vocabulary and interest in reading. Keep on letting her lead the way and I'm sure she'll continue to amaze you!

I've got three early walkers (7 months, 8 months, and ten months) and one late walker (15 months). All were fluent readers by age three at the latest. The most precocious of my readers was reading signs at 12 months, had many sight words at 16 months, and we discovered that he could read virtually anything in clear print just after he turned two. At that age, he loved to read adult field guides to identify things form his rock and seashell collections. He is not my strongest reader now though, as his little sister has surpassed him. She is much more of a bookworm and is very, very fast! The test admin who did her evaluation said that she scored higher than any other child she's ever seen on some reading subtests. She was past grad school level at six years old. It's been fun watching my kids play developmental leapfrog with each other. Skills don't always develop along a predictable path, and I have given up trying to guess where they will be in any particular area in a year, two years, or more.

My kids were all pretty verbal early on, and I think I am a bit out of touch with what is typical. Let me see if I can find a chart: http://parentcenter.babycenter.com/0_milestone-chart-25-to-30-months_1496593.pc

That's not the one I wanted... let me see:
http://www.austega.com/gifted/preschoolers.htm

That's the one! Maybe you'll find this helpful.

take care-

In the FWIW department...

I think early milestones tend to indicate (though do not guarantee) GTness, especially if a child reaches milestones early across the board or at least in most of the areas not tied tightly to motor skills.

Later milestones, however, do NOT mean a child isn't GT. That's very important! There are just WAAAAAAAAAY too many cases of kids who didn't speak until 3 or 4 or whatever, and then spoke novels, or the kid who didn't read until 1st grade, but was reading at the 8th grade level by the end of that same year. I have a deep mistrust of anything that is used to "rule out" kids, especially kids who are pre-K-aged or so. There's too much going on there that we can't necessarily see.

I, too, would suspect GTness in your child, HoosierMommy, and I'm with Lorel that it seems too early to tell level.

So there's certainly no reason to think you're crazy, no matter what your family seems to think!

Thanks for the thoughts. I fully understand that some children do not show any signs of GT until the school years -- I was one of them. My DH and I will certainly enjoy our DD as a fun-loving, rambunctious toddler who loves to swing and paint rocks with water colors outside. She keeps everyday interesting, that's for sure.

Hmm. I've seen this chart before and have always been a bit dubious about some of its claims.

Ex. I'm not convinced that a speaking a word at 7.9 months is a "normal" developmental milestone. This seems pretty early to me (extremely so for the general population), and also because the chart says a vocabulary of 4-6 words doesn't come until ~8 months later.

Also, my kids' pediatrican told me that the standard 24 month milestone is combining 2 words (onset 18-23 months), not simple sentences. And if a child has a vocabulary of 20 words at 21 months, how can he "combine several words"? His vocabulary isn't big enough for that unless he just strings them together with no meaning. From what I've read, combining two words happens when a child has a vocabulary of ~25 words.

Not throwing a ball until age 4 seems pretty late to me? I'm pretty sure this happens a little before age 2.

Also, what does "30% advanced" mean, exactly?

Has anyone ever wondered about this chart?

Val

I didn't look at the chart--I'm too lazy--but our physician suggested that the sentences kids make should be 1-word-long per year of age for ND. So a 2yo should form 2-word sentences, and a 3yo should form 3-word sentences.

I'm not sure how soon after that the rule breaks down, but I'm betting kids don't wait for their 4th birthdays to make 4-word sentences. But that's just my guess.

Throwing a ball happens before 2. I'm pretty sure you're right about that, too. Both our kids did, and they weren't terribly advanced in the motor skills department. Certainly not DS7!

FWIW...

I have a DS2...well, he'll turn into DS3 next week. He's advanced. Very much so, both in language/reading and logic/math.

I just wanted to say that about 6 months ago, I went through the same process you are now. Questioning myself, trying to find any charts/statistics/anecdotal evidence that would help me quantify him. And I was able to assure myself that I wasn't crazy, or overly biased (as much as any first time mom can be unbiased). And that made me feel calmer.

Now that a sort of general acceptance has settled over me and my DH regarding our son, I don't feel as neurotic about it. For me it was a bit like the stages of grief....call it stages of GT acceptance:

1) Amazement / Disbelief
2) Worry / Anxiety
3) Planning (for me this meant trying to rearrange the future picture in my brain regarding school since we are going to be making some fairly big life changes before school begins)
4) Acceptance / Normalcy

If last 2 years have been any indication, DS is never going to be a typical kid. And I have gotten a lot better at dealing with that...mostly dealing with friends, family and strangers who comment on it.

I have recently decided to just stop worrying/planning/thinking down the road and just enjoy him now. He's an amazing creature and although he reads like an elementary school kid and like to count to 1000, he still refused to eat his breakfast this morning and broke down because his eggs were on the wrong plate. So, yeah. He's still a toddler and I don't want to miss a single minute of that roller coaster ride.

What a wonderful post, Catherine!!

I can remember going through all those stages, but without the clarity of understanding it so well.

Hummmm.... now that I stop and think about it, I still go through all those stages, sometimes on a daily basis. And I've been on this particular roller coaster ride for eight years now.

I guess the fun never ends.

wow, catherine, you went through your stages much earlier than I did. But I think you've got them pegged. We started our "phases of GT acceptance" after we got DS4's test results (PG based on the chart Cathy posted). We had him tested as a condition for early entrance into kindergarten. We went with the psych's recommendation to not early entrance DS. Your "worry/anxiety" wa much more like panic for me. I'll add "find out everything I can about HG" as a step before planning.

Here's DS4's background. Alert at birth, and with strong neck muscles. Day 2, flipped himself over in the bilirubin light incubator thingy. Besides that one incident, he was early at rolling both ways. After that, not too early with gross motor. In fact, he took first several steps before he turned 1, then fell, then didn't try again until 14 months and kept on since then. He didn't jump until about 3 1/2 - he's my cautious little kid (except for his invincibility syndrome).

Very early talker. Can't remember exactly when. I do remember that before one I had some sign language cards. I remember looking at them, in a very lazy manner, and thinking, well, he already says or understands all these words, why should I bother with the signing?

Could sight read many words around 2. Around 2.5, took off with road signs. I ordered tana hoban's "i read signs" then, and by the time it arrived, he could read it straight through by himself (he was very proud to have "read" his first book.) He could read chapters in Frog and Toad around his 3rd birthday. After that, we knew he could read many words, but he didn't want to read to us.

I forgot to mention that he has always loved being read to, since birth he would pay attention to books. We have pictures of interested baby on his back with daddy laying next to him reading hop on pop. Reading to him was one of my calming techniques for high maintenance baby. Horrible napper. He wanted to be read to for hours when he was old enough to point at books (early pointer too - I remember carrying him around identifying everything he pointed to).

Now, at 4.5, he's reading encyclopedia brown chapters to us (he'll only read to us as a procrastination method at bedtime). These are maybe 3rd-4th grade level? He's not interested in spelling too much or writing.

He occasionally shows some interest in math, but always loves science stuff. We just try to play with him like anyone else, though. He loves hiking and collecting rocks. He's still just a kid. We'll worry about "real" schooling next year (although we definitely continue teaching him on a day to day basis - just not organized teaching).

sorry so long!

I think I have made the introductory trip through those phases. I have absolutely no doubt that I'll most likely be visiting each one again in depth as the years go on. Honestly? He's 2. There's not much that can be done (or even should be done) now.

Our biggest thing is the plan. We need to move districts and that's going to require selling our house in the next 24 months. So in a weird way, my DS and his brain are directly responsible for me re-painting our living room. That's one of the many, many items on our large "get the house ready to sell" list that we made up this weekend.

So see? If I have to buy new paint/carpet/landscaping, it's ONLY because my kid is too darn smart! That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

CFK-

Nice to hear from you again! Interesting study idea. I don't think anyone has tackled that yet. Catherine, I think you're right on about the grieving. I've been saying the same thing for years. And I do revisit the different stages as my kids grow and change. Mostly, though, I think I'm in acceptance, until something new reminds me of how weird we are...

C, I know what you mean. Life is all about balance, and it's good to be honest with yourself about the potential to over analyze and obsess.

But it is nice to see you back...

I also have been finding myself posting a little less. I was finding that I was becoming increasingly overwhelmed and frustrated. It also is good timing since DS5 is in the process of a much needed learning break.

To make a quick comment about the OP: I didn't really notice that my older son was gifted since I was very focused on his gross motor delay. It didn't matter that he was talking full sentences since usually friends and family were always asking if he was walking yet. Once the gross motor thing finally resolved (around 2.5 years old) I started to realize that his vocabulary, counting, rhyming and reasoning skills were advanced for his age.

I was more aware of some early skills from my younger two (untested) children. Right now I love sitting and watching DD4 create wonderful art masterpieces with such expression and detail. I also love watching DS2 put together puzzles with such determination and ease. I honestly think I am just more aware to look for these things after having gone through it once already.

I miss my buddies though.

(Even though I'm also trying to be here less and revise the book more. *sigh*)

Catherine, that was a great post about the stages of having a GT kid. Everything hit right on with me. Sometimes I'm still in the Disbelief stage, but for the most part I've moved onto the anxiety and planning. It's nice to know I'm not the only one who feels this way, especially when I think that my DD is only 2.5 and I have a LONG road ahead of us as far as education goes. And who knows what DD2mo will bring... as young as she is, she's also showing signs of being bright as well with her alertness, early smiling, cooing, etc. She even sang back to me a couple of days ago when I was singing a song to calm her down. Normally I wouldn't give any notice to that possibly being unusual, but I'm keeping my eyes open for clues just in case. And if she's a "normal" kid, I'll love her just the same.

Today I had a great conversation with a good friend of mine about DD2.5 and my friend wasn't uncomfortable, angry, argumentative or anything. She was very supportive and thought it was amazing that DD2.5 can type her name on the computer and put together a puzzle with ease. My friend also has young children, 3.5 and 2, so I've always stayed away from the subject, but that's hard to do when DD2.5 is doing those things right out in the open. I just acknowledged that she seems to be a smart little turkey and we talked about her DS3.5's love of mechanics like it was no big deal.

Ahhh, what a relief.

Hi, HoosierMommy,

I haven't been reading the board lately, and don't have time to catch up now, but I just saw your name on the front page and had to tell you how much I love your name - as in "Who's Your Mommy?" LOL! Welcome and glad to see that you're getting support and answers from those more knowledgeable than me. And I apologize if your name has already been commented on (and I know not to end my sentence with a preposition - oops)

After all, I'm,

Questions (even though this icon says "confused")

Questions, thank for the compliment on the name. Nobody has said anything about it -- you're the first. I told my husband to join the forum as HoosierDaddy. I laughed at my own joke but he merely chuckled. I still think it'd be a great name!

I laughed again when I read Who's Your Daddy!

Ok, I didn't get it, I was thinking Indiana basketball.

As well you should! (Said the I.U. fan...)

Oh, I know all about the Hoosiers! But I liked the double-entendre, too.

OT, but there's are loads of myths about the origin of the term "Hoosier," since no one really knows for sure what it means ("Who's 'ere," a man names Hoosier, etc.)

My favorite tall tale is that back when the midwest was the frontier, there were lots of knife fights. In the middle of one particularly bad brawl, someone picked up something from the floor and called out, "Hey! Whose ear?"

That became "Hoosier."

I think it's a ridiculous story without a shred of truth to it, but I love it! And so "Whose ear, Mommy?" is what I think of!

Kriston, I have also heard the "Who's 'ere?" question as being the origin of the word "Hoosier" in an Indiana Studies class waaayyyy back in high school.

And BTW, go IU!

I knew I liked you!