Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy How did giftedness affect your family planning?

...or did it, even?

A highly sensitive, idiosyncratic, and personal topic, I know. To what extent did your first child's giftedness/OEs influence your decision to add (or not add) to your family, as well as impact decisions about child spacing?

DH and I feel DS2.9 is the crown jewel of our marriage. We've both begun to contemplate what life would be like with a DS-sibling, be a new arrival a year or four away, if ever. For the life of me--as an only child myself and a (dare I say it) uber/over involved mother--I draw a blank at formulating a mental model for parenthood with >1 gifted child. DS is a tornado; an affectionate, nursing, wonderful whirlwind of smiling, giggling toddlerhood, but a maelstrom of inquisitiveness and activity nonetheless.

I am only just now truly emerging from the caul of new parenthood and tackling some entrepreneurial ventures as a Serious Adult again. Part of me feels invincible for having successfully shepherded DS--admittedly a child on the far right tail for energy and activity, with a side order of SPD--to this point. Am I insane to envision a fourth family member?

(I should add that if DH and I were somehow unable to have another child, we would both still be thrilled to parent DS-the-only-child.)

Public comments and PMs welcome on both sides of the discussion!

We wanted as many as possible as quickly as possible. It was not easy and we were very lucky to have three. Nothing would have made us choose to delay or forgo having another.

I have two, I did not know they were both HG until recently. They are both a handful (or maybe that's an understatement and they are forces of nature).

I would still have more if I could. That said my mom used to say deciding to have a second child was like standing in front of the truck that just hit you and waiting for it to hit you again.

Someone once told me to picture how many people you want to have sitting around your dinner table at Thanksgiving. If it's just you, your DH and your child, that's totally fine. If you imagine more, then don't let the fact that your child is a friendly tornado dissuade you.

That's wonderful! Thanks for sharing so frankly, 22B. I am in awe.

I find myself questioning the statute of limitations on exhaustion being my personal barrier to expanding our family. It's legitimate but, as you well know, it passes (or, rather, we evolve and adapt) so quickly.

I should add that we are fortunate to be quite young, to have the flexibility afforded by good health, and the luxury of one of us being a SAH-parent.

Your whole post oozes reassurance, LAF, and I can't help but nod at your mum's aphorism.

Do you mind my asking what the age spread is between your children?

I have two who are now DS7 and DD4. My son sounds similar to yours in that he was super active, intense and ate up every bit of my world outside of work. He was a high need baby and didn't sleep all night until he was 2. He always needed attention and was strong-willed. He was difficult to potty train and just as he was starting to get the hang of it, his baby sister came along. I fully expected to lose my sanity if the second one was as difficult and challenging as the first. I was naive about his giftedness though, so it wasn't a factor in family planning. His behavior was a struggle, so I expected the worst with doubling it. I now know this is classic behavior for gifted kids.

Then little sister was calm, easy and slept through the night at 2 weeks. She has been so easy to raise in comparison. Now they keep each other company and they always have someone to play with. It has been excellent for social skills. I don't think my daughter is PG like my son, but she is way more independent and has a much higher social emotional IQ.

I won't have any more kids. I'm happy with the 2 I have. I wouldn't risk having another PG kid. They are not the easiest kids to raise - lol! (Actually it's because I have terrible morning sickness and don't want to volunteer another 3-4 months of laying on the couch with nausea).

Giftedness didn't enter into it. Yes, DD was intense, but parenting was intense and exhausting for other reasons that had nothing to do with her LOG, and in fact, her LOG may have actually made those other factors better, all in all.

By the time we were ready, it couldn't happen-- and really, when we began to consider methods to make it possible... we realized that our family was complete as it was, and that we were already well beyond the limits of "complicated" that we could manage. We didn't really feel the pull to have another. Not enough to make it happen. I'm glad now, though it's not without some wistfulness as my child's firsts are also our 'lasts' in each instance, which is harder as a parent than most people understand.

Still-- our life with DD has been quite a juggling act, and the strain has been extreme at several points. I cannot fathom how much more complex our college considerations would have been for our 15yo had we been considering the needs of a 6-7yo as well, for example.

I would not have chosen to have an only, being one myself. Then again, DH feels very strongly that there are definitely worse things. And he's not an only. {ahem}

We have stopped at 2. Partly I feel too old at nearing 40, partly I hated being pregnant and mostly because I haven't had a full nights sleep in 5 years and I have a mood to match it. I think HG dd and perhaps HG ds would have slept better if they were normal on the curve, I think they might have been less demanding, who knows but I guess the intensity means I can parent 2 kids well any more I'd be making compromises I'm not happy with. I guess that calls in the giftedness...
I would say though that I did resent ds for a while taking me away from dd, then dd for a while for not letting me get to know him. It took a while for me to get the balancing act right but now I would have our circus any different ( besides which eventually they distract each other!!! Bonus)

You could look at it this way: letting your child be an only, you are depriving him of one of the few chances of a HG+ playmate!
At the time, we were fairly sure DS7 was gifted, but we did not understand just how high, in comparison with typical kids, his needs Actually were, not even with the issues that came with him being a preemie. I mean, it just takes you a while to realize not all kids need two hours of attention to go to sleep at night, kWIM? But his difficult birth and infancy caused major health issues of mine (spine surgery for a slipped disk) and when he was 2, I just wasn't ready for another baby and felt I needed to get ahead a bit professionally as well. By the time he was 3, our family was way ready for another, but it took another 9 months to produce one, which is a time lag you have to keep in mind. Um, I mean, I'm sure you knew that, but I have so often since wished I'd started sooner or could speed up the process that I just want to throw this out there: you do have to take it on faith sometimes that you will be ready by the time the child is actually there, and if not, things will work out somehow anyway. DD3 (4 in a couple days) is almost four years younger than DS7, and while they can play together and enjoy one another (that she is socio-emotionally way ahead for her age while he is behind, clearly helps), I think they'd enjoy one another much more if they were closer in age. I have the direct comparison with the relationship between DD3 and DS1 who are just best friends, and it is lovely to watch.
Some of it I am sure is birth order ( all parents of three tell me that the rivalry is most intense between the oldest two), some of it is individual temperament and some must be girls just being more likely to be caring older siblings (DD3 loves helping DS1 bathe, dry, dress, feed etc and is put out if he does not want to be helped, while DS7 can be caring but needs to be specifically asked and reminded) but of course some of it is being just over two years apart. If one can swing it (I was way not ready to be pregnant with DS1 which wasn't so easy when it turned he was going to be born with major special needs) it is probably an ideal spacing.
I wish I could, one of these days, sleep longer than 5 hours at a stretch. I have kinda forgotten what that's like. I also regret knowing I have missed career opportunities that will never come again now. But once you have those kids I cannot imagine you will regret having them, though I am sure the other way around is much more common.
DH actually always wanted four, but with DS1 we have found that some kids needs actually are compelling reasons not to have another. He's got the kind of May end up in hospital for brain surgery at a moments notice-needs and we feel it would not be fair to him, nor to the baby and his (as I now know, also high needs) older sibs.
Also, he profits even more from extended breast feeing than typical kids do and every day I am wiped as it is and that more than five hours of uninterrupted sleep night I am still dreaming of is not yet on the horizon and our historic little two bedroom cottage is so crowded and our logistics so overwhelming....adding pregnancy to the mix...ugh. It would frankly be irresponsible.

It did not, at all. But I grew up in a family of multiple HG+ kids, and my partner is an only, so I think our expectations for parenting were either that this is just how kids are, or none at all (in the case of the spouse!).

From the perspective of being a sibling, I would say quite seriously that Tigerle brings up a valuable consideration, as my siblings have been my most important and most enduring peer relationships, not only for the usual sibling reasons, but as intellectual peers.

OTOH, my partner, who is at least HG, has created a network of satisfying relationships out of non-related peers, partly by having focal interests in common, and partly by being a generally very nice person. =)

This is what I wanted when we started having kids. Our oldest was a high-needs baby, but by 6 months he was spending lots of time looking at books and playing with toys independently. I figured it would be smooth sailing with him for awhile and that I could handle another baby.

But by the time our second came along, our oldest, who was about to turn two, became a complete nightmare. For the next two years, he had incredibly high energy, high need for mental stimulation, high impulsiveness, no sense of caution, a strong will, and some SPD-like issues.

My younger son is really sweet and imaginative... I wish that I had had more time to enjoy him as a baby. But every time I diverted my attention from my older son, he would do something crazy, like drag a chair over to the key rack, take my car keys, go into the garage and start my car. Or plug up the sink, turn on the water full blast, and flood the kitchen. I was always afraid that he was going to seriously injure himself or destroy my house. And I really struggled to take him anywhere because I could not contain him and/or deal with his over-reactions, while also attending to a baby.

I was a complete wreck by the end of every day.

Fast forward to now and things are a lot better. DS4 still has high energy and high need for stimulation; but at least I can channel it into tolerable activities, like math and geography and hiking. He is still very strong-willed, but I've learned how to manage that, too. Plus, he's hit the social milestone where he is motivated to follow rules even when I'm not looking (huge relief!!) DS2 is awesome. He is very intense, but he has high social awareness. He finds joy in everything and he talks in paragraphs; it's just amazing. He's a good playmate and foil to DS4. Also, I think he has helped DS4 get over some of his space issues and aversion to noise.

If my older son had been more like my younger son, I'd probably have lots of kids by now. But as it is, I feel completely burnt out on mothering. This is a disappointment; however, I have entrepreneurial and philanthropic aspirations that I plan to focus on instead. Plus I'm going to need time and energy to deal with any educational challenges to come.

No, it did not. Then again, I think DD just seemed to "fit" in our family and to us, was "normal." Still, DD was (and is) intense and perhaps had she been a bit less so, we would have spaced them a tiny bit closer (they are about 3 years apart).

I have to agree with Tigerle and aeh - I am glad my DC have each other, as it seems that we face some of the same academic issues with them (and I hope that having each other will make their educational issues feel more "normal"). Right now, they have some interests in common and it is wonderful to see them learn together.

I am an only and it's fine; there are positives and negatives. I never would have had as many opportunities for camps, volunteer work, etc., with a sibling due to the effort and expense involved. At the same time, I know people so have wonderfully close relationships with siblings and that must be a very special thing.

I had hoped my kids would be good friends, but they really aren't. Hopefully they will be closer as they get older, but they generally fight with each ofher (at least, my very intense daughter gets upset with her brother for one thing or another and poor DS gives up trying to play with her). My dad and his brother were both very intense and apparently my dad was sent to boarding school to separate them and stop the fighting (I'm sure there were other considerations, but that was a big one). They were never able to get along, even as adults. I hope my kids will have a much better relationship than that, but my point is that having siblings to provide companions for each other is no guarantee that they will cooperate.


My daughter loves her cousins and it is wonderful to see them together, so that is the closest thing we have to sibling connections.

My kids (DS9 and DD7) are 2 1/2 years apart.

My brother and I are 18 months apart. We fought a lot until about middle school. After that we became very close friends, I would be very sad to not have him in my life. My kids fight a lot too, but I can tell that underneath they like each other, but they are also competitive with each other (my DD7 instigating it a lot of the time as she is less mature).

By the way, I was the first born, so whenever I think about my mom's saying about the truck I realize that I was the truck.. as a baby my brother was actually very sweet and calm and apparently had the exact opposite temperament to mine which was a welcome break for my mom. However I believe that he is more gifted than I am.

Smart people tend to have smart children, so it is important for society for smart people to have large families. Since research has not shown that the quality of parenting, above a certain low threshold level, makes much difference in child outcomes, parents should not worry too much that having a large family will cause their children to suffer from lower resources per child. This philosophy was debated in a 2011 thread
The Case for Having More Children (NYT).

Ugh I can't select to quote on this tablet, but space cadet's ds1 sounds ds2 who will 2 in November. My biggest challenge will be keeping him alive while he tries very hard to do the opposite! That made us certain to stop at 2, people say oh he's just a boy but when they spend more time with him they see the tornado. If id started having kids younger I may have had more.

Gifted didn't come into our family planning at all, but a lot of what is mentioned here is very familiar I think that many of the things brought up here apply for parents of non-gifted kids too

I love whoever said above that their parents suggested thinking of who you'd like to see around your Thanksgiving table later on - I just love that! That's kind of what we did - I had a vision, and I didn't really think of anything else other than that vision of family life in the future.

Which is fortunate, because a lot of those first-years of parenting aren't really all that much fun - all the lack of sleep, exploding diapers, constant mental exhaustion.

The thing I've found with my kids (and my friends kids) - all babies and toddlers are different - some are high-maintenance, some are high-needs, some are just a breeze. There's no way to predict which will come first, but chances are that within any given family you're going to have one child is a lot more exhausting than another. And which child is the exhausting and challenging child *IS* going to change as your children get older - it's just what happens and there's no way to predict which child it will be or what exactly is going to go on with any of your children. My most mellow baby turned into the kid who I had to put the most time into to get through school. My most challenging toddler (medical and sensory) turned into my most mellow elementary-age kid and just all-around fun kid to be around ever, until she turned into my most hormonal middle-school child.

Another thing that happens, and it's just life - the first child gets all the attention, you will most likely feel stressed and guilty about not having enough time and energy to give that same kind of attention to your second child, and by the time you have your third child you will no longer care and may occasionally forget they exist (just kidding!). But the nature of your relationships with them will be different simply because of birth order - and that's something you might feel wistful about but it really will be ok!

For me, if my second child had been my first child, there would have been no more children. If I'd known ahead of time what the elementary school years would be like, and I had any control over anything, all of my children would have been my second child, and all of my toddlers would have been my third child. BUT wait! I love love love my first child too.

Really, it's all going to be what it's going to be (and it will get easier by the time they are in middle school, but your free time will still be completely non-existent because they can't drive yet :)) I love all my kids to the moon and back and can't imagine our lives without any of them. I am glad they have each other because I know that eventually, once they get past the can't-stop-squabbling stage of siblinghood, they will grow into adults who will (hopefully) appreciate having each other.

It's all good - no matter how many children you have - just keep looking at the vision you've always had for your family, and don't let the exhaustion of the early years delude you into thinking that you have to give up the dream of another child if it's something you want

Best wishes,

polarbear

Polarbear, thank you for sharing your observations!!

Yes, that's one of the fun things of having three - you learn to let go, simply because you have no choice.
The workload I'd say goes up proportionally, or not quite even as there will be some synergy going on, but the fun goes up exponentially.
Also the intensity I have to admit. But you learn to let go about that as well. Tell em to take it outside and close the door,no I do not care who did what or who needs what, that's it. Time out for me. Those are the times when I think, enviously, of those families who have these potted plant kids, who actually do things simply because their parents tell them to. Once, in a normal voice. They exist.
But the feeling doesn't last long.
Another thing which I think is a biggie for children who are very anxious and sensitive: siblings make children feel safe. This probably does not work when there is major conflict, with one sibling feeling always put upon, but if it's just squabbling, they will pull together at any perceived threat.

I have 2, I expected intelligent so it never occurred to me they were anything other than bright kids until the older was about to school by which time they were nearly 5 and nearly 3. I would have had a third if I hadn't been 40 when my youngest was born.

If i had only had one it would be easier to meet his needs but i think his brother meets his needs more.

I have one 2e/pg ds8.5. It's plenty. I didn't plan on have an only. I didn't plan on ds being born with special needs. I didn't plan on him being pg either.

We tried for a second child when ds was about 18 mos - 2 yrs. It didn't happen. I don't regret it now, but it took me some time to come to peace with it. I'm a middle of three and for a long time had always wanted two kids. However, I had ds as an 35+-yr-old mother. So I always knew it was pushing my fertility possibilities.

To be honest, the whole giftedness wasn't as much a factor as the other potential genetic stuff (autism, ADHD, PTSD, etc.) that scared the pants off me having kids earlier or more of them. I thought, "god, what if they turn out like___. Ugh." It was a pretty good disincentive to reproduce an offspring. And when you've got siblings that aren't exactly socially/emotionally switched on then you're a bit reluctant as well.

Giftedness did not affect our plans... We had always envisioned 2 children but not more unless we run into unplanned surprise. Age was a big driver for us since we are on the older side and I definitely felt the second pregnancy was harder on me physically and especially mentally (nothing like having security at my work place asking me if I can just park in the visitors parking so that they did not worry if I will make it to the building). DS is one day shy of being 2 years older than DD and he was born one day shy of my birthday. He was very sensitive but fairly easy baby (calm, loves new experiences and laughed a lot as a baby). If we had DD first, I think we would have been too tired to have a second until another year or so later.

I like having two because I feel like it stops us from hovering over one child since we are the type to get obsessive about minor details. But I know I don't want to deal with a third pregnancy since I am older and just don't bounce back from physical stress that easily - heck, every time I get a bug, it takes me longer to get over it. Forget the 9 months of pregnancy. If I were 10 years younger, I would probably consider another - but I may also regret not having done all that I did before having kids, so I have no regrets on having them at this point in my life.

Giftedness never affected our family plans, but I can see how having four gifties has both positively and negatively affected us as a family when I listen to parents of only one or two on this board. Our spacing (now ages 23, 21, 14, 12) also affect things. With one SAHP, we don't have money to do some of the enrichment we'd like, and of course, we don't have the time with each individual child. I've been a SAHM approximately forever and so my career will probably never return. All that said, I wouldn't trade it for the world. My kids enjoy each other's company immensely and always have. They like having smart friends and siblings (the only one tested is PG, but they all seem about the same level, albeit with some differing interests). They cheer each other on, expose each other to different interests, and help each other. I grew up one of five and dh one of three, barely middle class, so maybe we are just used to it. No matter how smart one of my kids turned out to be, I can't imagine moving across the country for school, taking a second job to pay for enrichment, etc... we grew up knowing that we were gifted, but that didn't make us more deserving/special, if that makes sense. My kids probably won't reach their maximum intellectual potential (but at the same time, they're not doing poorly-both younger ones have been invited to NUMATS grand ceremony, both older ones are pursuing graduate education and were very successful in school), but I feel like they have gotten a lot of other things in life through having a big family. It would be fun to have an only and see what would result from devoting all our parental energies to him/her, but I do think it's been good for them and for me to be part of a big family-as a parent, I don't take as much credit or as much blame, lol.

I had no clue about giftedness when we started, so it didn't enter our planning at all until number 2 was on his way. By then we knew number 1 was and were wondering if it would be the same for his brother.

We decided to wait and discuss more a bit later, but Dylan wasn't waiting for us to decide anything and surprised us.

The age spread is just under 2 years with the first two and just over 2 years with the middle and youngest child.

I'd love more and DH is afraid to have more. I don't think the giftedness is affecting the decision here - for DH, he wants to start travelling and is concerned that if we have more babies we never will. Also, being the primary breadwinner I think he feels the stress of providing for all of us - esp since I am rather entrepreneurial and keep expanding my business, which often chews a not-insubstantial portion of our monthly income.

Giftedness was not known to me when we were contemplating #2, but his intense personality and energy were.

I would have been happy to have 1. He is a lot of work still at 7. My dh believed we should have more.

Thus far, I am soo glad we were able to have ds2 who is now 4. Having a sibling has taught my 1st son many important things, including being less self absorbed. It also has taken some load off me (in a way), because though my younger has different strengths, they play beautifully together. They stimulate each other in play and discussion.

Also ds2 is somewhat more easy going and funny. He is still intense. I am still exhausted every evening, but happy.

In saying the above, we are done. I could not handle more. I take my hat off to those who can!

We had our first boy then just about 5 years later our second one. At the time we knew our first was a smart cookie but had developmental delays...we never thought he was gifted. So giftedness didn't play into trying for a second.

The third child never happened because of our age, difficulties getting pregnant, miscarriages, and ultimately financial considerations. Although my magic number was three and could have entertained a fourth, I am thrilled with how our family turned out with just two.

Thank you everyone for posting such personal thoughts. It's been reassuring and informative to hear your thought processes.

In terms of my "ideal" number of children, I've never really had one. There are days where 1 feels perfect, and others where I have a longing to share my love. DH and I have talked about the possibility of adopting a special needs child, of having a small family, or having a large one, of having nondescript careers, of having a highly public life, etc. The only definite feeling I have is that I don't want a large family--say, 5 or 6 children. To me, that's too chaotic for my taste, no matter how symbiotic the relationships might be.

For me, it's not so much about achieving the right headcout as feeling that a sense of family equilibrium has been achieved--one that allows me to pay a lot of individual attention to my child(ren) and respects the child(ren)'s need for close attachment, particularly in the early years. DH and I started our family sufficiently early that, fertility willing, we could have 3 or 4 children with moderate to large gaps between them with fertility room to spare (the minimum possible gap between DS and a prospective sibling is just shy of 4 years.)

DS has been higher needs than almost any ND child I know of. He requires more, more, more of everything-- one-on-one attention for most of his waking hours, physical contact to sleep (he is almost 3 and cosleeping, though we're going to gently test his spending half the night independently), constant conversation, frequent breastfeeding, resistance to eating (he only really began eating a meal a day around 2.5) and remedies and workarounds for SPD.

DS is an extrovert par excellence. He's a delight, but an exhausting one. By the end of the day, and sometimes by mid-day, I'm wiped. By noon, I've probably heard about 10,000 words and fielded dozens of intricate questions. I would be lying if I said DH's and my relationship hasn't suffered at least a little due to DS' strong needs. DH, while supportive, has not been involved in DS' upbringing to the extent I'd have liked, and I will need more contribution to childcare from him if we expand our family. I would be strained to have a second equally intense child without more support.

If a second child were to match DS' intensity, I would need to have another year or two of interim buffer to adjust and gird myself mentally. (I say this not as an emotionally flaccid person, but rather as a tough-as-nails former consultant used to 80+ hour work weeks and dealing with travel, the media, and challenging personalities. We have been staying with my parents on vacation and they have remarked that DS' ideal adult to child ratio is 3:1 or 4:1. No joke.) DS is at an age where he is highly portable, mixes well with adults. I feel like I have some adult life back and enjoy the balance we're starting to achieve.

Where we live currently, we're surrounded by professional friends who work long hours, but we lack a family support network. (DH's family are an hour away and about as useful as a superfluous nipple.) We're contemplating a move to my hometown, for a number of quality of life reasons, one of which is a high touch relationship with my parents. We currently live in an urban loft in the heart of a cultural Mecca, which worked great when DH and I would rendezvous for a 10pm dinner at a French restaurant around the corner after I flew back from meeting clients, but it's a less than ideal environment for young children. Fantastic for raging cocktail parties, God awful for trying to keep the house quiet for an uber sensitive child to sleep. Note to all: lofts and kids don't mix!

As to reasons for having another child, I have no expectations that a sibling will be a natural companion for DS, particularly with a 4+ year spread--that would just be gravy. DH is the eldest of 5, my mother is the 4th of 6, DH's mother is the oldest of 7, etc. There is nary a friendship in the bunch, save for my Mum and her sister, who is one year younger than her.

For DH and I, it's a question of love. How much love do we have to give? Can we give another child the love, attention, and resources to optimize that child's future? I want to do my best with every child. With DS, we felt an overwhelming, burning need to have an outlet for our love. It sounds corny, but there was too much love in our life for just two people--we HAD fo share it. Enter DS. If I'm honest with myself, I need some time for DS to mature before I feel confident that I'm not robbing him of support he needs. It's possible that I might never feel that same burning again. There are some hot embers kindling now; I suppose patience is required.

For me, giftedness/intensity is a central part of this thought process.

That and we both almost died in labour, after a flawless pregnancy, so there's that.

Not much I can say to the almost dying in labor part...

But I do have to say--and I think other parents of multiple children will agree--should you have another child, you will discover that you absolutely have enough love and to spare for every one of your children. An additional child does not mean that you now have to divide your love between them--your attention, yes, but not your love--your love will expand to fill the space available.

I can see family support as a factor, though. Our children do not have any grandparents closer than 1000s of miles, or even aunts/uncles closer than an hour's drive. It was much harder to get through the early years than if we had had more family support, but we did.

And I know what you mean about delightfully exhausting children. All of ours have co-slept until age 4, nursed until 2.5 or older, glued themselves to mom practically 24/7, not slept through the night until at least age 5. One talks, sings, and dances non-stop. Blessedly, we haven't had to deal with eating issues. (Which makes an amazing difference, from what I've seen with families who have had struggles with eating.)

aeh, you have no idea how helpful your post was. Truly. Simply the fact that you have survived multiple children like mine (including the verbose-wiggler model we both have!), flourished, and maintained a professional career gives me hope.

I'm sure you and others detected a strain of desperate perfectionism in my posts. It runs deep in my veins. I know cerebrally that I'm not seeing the forest for the trees on this matter. I lack a mental model for how functional multi-child gifted families look and am trying to force my only-child concept on it clumsily.

Polarbear's post gave some excellent perspective about how giftedness evolves within the same child over time. It made me realize that there are probably more moving variables and unknowns involved in this decision process than I'd realized, or can even be expected to account for.

Are you overcomplicating things? It cannot be proved whether the companionship of a sibling outweighs getting less parental attention, but my opinion is that having siblings is overall a good thing for the first child. What I can say more confidently is that it's good to be alive, and therefore that it's good to bring a few people into the world if possible and if you can afford to.

We had two children and were thinking of whether to have a third, at a time when my wife and I were working in different cities and seeing each other only once every few weeks. Well, we had a third. One of my wife's sisters repeatedly called her early in the pregnancy, asking how we were going to manage three children. I think she was indirectly suggesting an abortion. Nuts to that! Our dear daughter is now seven years old, and we and her brother all love her and are glad she is in our lives. Our three children, spanning an age range of 3.5 years, having so much fun together and will always be there for each other, I hope.

Having a sister makes you happier and more optimistic, say psychologists.
By Kate Devlin 7:00AM BST
The Telegraph
02 Apr 2009

To raise to 50% the chance that each child will have a sister (or in other words, to have two daughters), you need to have three children .

I like the juxtaposition of an endorsement of giving DS a sister with your story about your wife's sister urging you indirectly to abort your third child. (Who does that?! Wow. No words.)

On a less sarcastic note, I appreciate that your family has managed to grow and flourish even when you and your wife were apart for long periods. That's wonderful.

I have to infer that we either have different parenting philosophies, children with different needs, or some combination therein if your wife had 3 children in 3.5 years while working outside the home, with you in another city; à chacun son goût.

Perhaps a little stats illustrates my point better than the verbiage in my earlier post. If my children hypothetically require my 24/7 attention for x years, x ~ (3, 1), it's a dramatically different story than if x ~ (3, 2) or x ~ (3, 0.5). I've drawn what looks like an x>=3 child, but which distribution properly models DH's and my genetic potential? I have too small an n to even hazard a guess, which has large repercussions for my career, our family finances, and how DH and I parent. This is the story of every parent...so perhaps I am overcomplicating this and just have the luxury to vacillate.

Every time a parent tells me they're going to have another child because they always wanted to have a [gender], I always get this image of them standing at a craps table, shaking the dice fiercely, and saying, "Come on, [gender]." Usually, followed by, "Doh!"

To extend that further, I have no preference. We didn't find out DS' gender until he was born because we wanted to bond with our baby as a human, not as a gendered individual.

It drove people crazy when they asked, "What are you having?" and I replied, "A baby."

I did not go around telling people I wanted a boy or a girl. The last part of my earlier post was partly in jest. But giving your child a lifelong friend is a good thing to do if possible. My parents are getting old, and they don't want to leave the city where they have lived for decades and accumulated many friends and join us. They recently bought a condo in the same building as my mother's younger sister, and having her and her husband around really boosts my parents' spirits.

Ditto. To answer your original post, giftedness didn't affect our family planning at all, because DW had a medical consideration which trumped all others. We're quite fortunate to have the one, and DW had to pay a significant physical cost.

DD occasionally asks me if I wish she'd been a boy, because she's picking up from subtle social cues that dads are supposed to prefer sons. Luckily, I can set her fears to rest with complete honesty.


Alternatively, DW and I wanted to know ASAP, so we could see her as an individual. The first thing we did when we got home from that doctor's visit is give DD her proper name. Naming her made her feel so much more real.

Same goal, two different approaches.

I'm not saying you did, and my post in response is entirely in jest.


Sounds like that's more of a benefit for your parents than for you as a sibling... not that there's anything wrong with that.

An earlier poster's comments about siblings not getting along well into adult life jibe with things I've seen, too. Similar genes and background are no guarantee of friendship. Sometimes it blossoms into lifelong hatred instead.

I remember when I got pregnant the second time, we were wondering how we would survive two kids... but children do change so much in those first 2-3 years, that by the time his sister came, he was very different than when I first knew I was pregnant 8 months earlier. And because they are in different phases of development now, it does not seem as daunting as it did before.

Some things are easier the second time around just from having some experience - like we already knew how to diaper (the amount of mishaps from poor diaper changes dropped dramatically the second time, and I don't think we called the on call doctor for the same set of issues as much the second time around when something freaked us out).

There are definitely no guarantees that siblings will be friends (I have a sister with such intense sibling rivalry to the point that she went ballistic when my mother accidentally mentioned my daughter's name to her - so we don't have any contact) but right now, our kids squabble over the usual stuff, and like to play with the same toys (luckily for DS, DD does like trains and trucks along with dolls and butterflies).

It is reassuring to me to know that others with gifted kids do co-sleep and nurse until later since it seems like everyone else around us have kids sleeping through the night in separate rooms by 6-9 months and weaned at a year (DS cut off nursing himself by 16 months and he switched to playing with my then-growing belly but DD is 23 months and shows no sign of wanting to stop - in fact, she uses it to claim her time with me and works very hard at times to kick DS away while she nurses).

Aquinas, some of your previous post reminded me strongly of our discussions about this when DD was 4-8yo.

We had tried to have another-- but, well, long sad story there.


I was very lonely as an only child. I did not want that for my own daughter. But she isn't lonely, most of the time.

The only time when I've had real regrets at the way that things have turned out (like Dude's family) is when my surviving parent died, leaving me "alone" in the world. It's a strange feeling.

On the other hand, when my FIL recently died, I suddenly had cause to be very grateful, as my poor DH dealt with a sibling who could only very charitably be described as "difficult" (or, um-- well-balanced, I suppose, though I shouldn't say so).

We also considered adoption extensively... but realized that DD's need for (expensive) education, enrichment, and medical care would inevitably suffer if she had a sibling. Our home isn't really a good one for two children of widely separated ages due to the bedroom configuration.

It was complicated, but our decision was ultimately made FOR us on the one hand, but also we didn't feel the need to go to extreme lengths to make it happen. We did think about that, but realized that our family already felt "good" to us the way that it was. The pull has existed at times anyway, of course. I think that most people who are loving parents feel that. It's balanced by a sense that our family is "right" as it is, however.

Our home is very QUIET. With 2/3rd introverts, this is an important consideration, quite frankly. Adding an extroverted/loud child to this mix would increase stress levels substantially in DD and myself both.

We've had the extremely asynchronous non stop talking co-sleeper (or rather co-waker) up till four, the one with feeding/issues (not entirely resolved yet but infinitely better after 18 months incredibly hard work) and the extended nurser with major medical issues. The feeding issues I'd say were the most frustrating.
I can imagine that having all three rolled into one is exhausting to a point that others experiences cannot compare.
I usually go to bed with my children around eight because I have usually been completely wiped by late afternoon. I LOVE LOVE LOVE it when for some reason I get to have an afternoon nap with DS 1. Bliss.

You say you are young enough to wait and see and having them close enough for them to be playmates (I'd say between 4 and 5 is probably the outer limit for that) is not a concern for you. So, wait and see! It may all suddenly fall into place,
I cannot recall whether your little one is reading yet? If he is, he surely hasn't got the stamina for the kind of reading yet that fills his need for mental stimulation without constant interaction with a receptive grown up. I recall DH saying what an eye opener it was when our oldest had actually shut up for almost half an hour for the first time ever because he was making his way through his first chapter books "I realized just how exhausting the last five years have been and why, and realized that things will get better...".

Now some of that uncontrollable mental energy goes into picking on his little sister, I'm sorry to say...but never forget that parents do have some control over how well siblings get along (siblings without rivalry, while rather dated, had helpful ideas for me, and made me realize how parents can actually create the rivalry).

I sometimes feel a bit sorry for my DD, sandwiched between her two brothers (I read the same article Bostonian read, but somehow the two daughters thing didn't work out for us either, some glitch in the ordering of the universe I expect) but on the other hand, you've never seen such a tough little girl!

It took 5 years to have DD so the idea of "planning" seems a bit absurd. DD and DS are 16mo. apart and I spent a few years after they were born exhausted. DD could be intense with a lot of mood swings and demanded a lot of attention. DS was very passive and easy for the most part but he had delays which caused stress and running around to medical appointments. The idea of a third child made me feel exhausted and still does. I don't think the "giftedness" plays a role. It has its challenges but the disability aspect is what has exhausted me most. Both kids are 2e. If both my kids had been "easy" and "typical" maybe then I would have been more motivated to try to have a third, thru infertility treatments, or adoption, or just trying the old fashioned way. You never know what you are going to get when you decide to have a baby. You can make an educated guess based on the fact that siblings tend to be similar, but there are no guarantees. I have a friend with twins. One has autism spectrum disorder and behavioral issues. The other twin has a genetic disorder that has caused her to be wheelchair bound and completely non-verbal, profoundly deficient in terms of cognitive ability (not sure of the PC way to say that), with all kinds of medical issues causing her to be in and out of the hospital (at one point she seemed to be in the hospital more than she was home). They have no idea what her life expectancy is. The genetic disorder/health issues were not detected until she was about 6 months old. The parents are heroes in my eyes, and I have no idea how they have endured everything they have been through. But most parents love their kids so much they step up to the plate and do whatever is needed, exhausted or not.

The only way that giftedness played a role in our family planning is that I had a high enough IQ to have a job that paid enough that we could afford IVF in order to conceive our second.

We imagined having a couple of kids. Not a set plan or anything, but it made sense to us.

Then we had DD and she never slept. Never slept, walked (ran, climbed, jumped) early, talked early and nonstop. And still never slept. Needed stimulation always. Terrible colic. And did I mention that she never slept?

I was 30 when she was born and it was five or six years before we even came up for air. I feel like it was decades off our lives.

If DD is this way because she's PG, well then we choose not to have another because of that. We knew she was scary smart from very early on too (I have a log I kept of all her freakishly early firsts for the first year), but it was the endless intensity that drove our decision.

I think the cost of children in parental time and money goes up more slowly than linearly with the number of children. Most people in the U.S. buy the education of their children through the purchase of a home in a good enough area. Once they have done so, they don't bear most of the cost of pre-college education (although I am well aware of transportation and other activity fees). We paid our live-in babysitter more when we had three children but did not triple her pay. It is known that having children reduces mothers' earnings, but I doubt that having three children reduces earnings by three times as much as having one. The direct cost of music, sports, and other lessons is proportional to the number of children, but the time cost of transporting them to the same activity is not. Since our youngest turned five or so, our children have been able to entertain each other for hours at a time without needing our attention. We don't need to schedule play dates.

The main benefit of having children -- that they get to enjoy a life -- is proportional to the number of children. If the cost of children is less than proportional to the number, that is an argument for having more of them.

Also, when the kids get older, they can take care of themselves and help around the house. Yesterday DS14 helped my husband put a big shelf together for our garage. They cleaned the garage thoroughly after that. He's been helping like that for a good few years now. DD9 regularly cooks her own simple meals and she helps us cook more complex ones (DS14 as well). Again, she's been doing that for a while. I want to say that she made her first sunny-side-up egg two years ago.

In our experience, once the kids are old enough to do all of the following, life gets a lot easier:

• Eat by themselves and rinse their dishes
• Take a shower by themselves
• Get dressed by themselves
• Get out of bed in the morning, eat somethings simple, and amuse themselves

This stuff started to happen around age 2 in our house. By the time my youngest was 5, things were much easier than they had been before that. Now that she's 9, most of that frantic stress from the younger years is gone.

On the financial side - that was a consideration to some extent. We left the city where DH and I met and moved to one where cost of living was so much lower, and I suspect that if we were still living in the high cost city, we would have struggled with the idea of more than one child. Where we live now, many families here have 2+ kids (our next door neighbors have 4 children and our daycare is full of families with siblings - DS's age group has 4 kids with siblings DD's age and that is just those families with children the same age spacing as us). Our area is really set up for families with children (when we went to visit our former city and went to the area's large Whole Foods market, it was hard to find decent baby food compared to our local supermarket's baby food selection and the area in general felt somewhat unwelcoming to young children when we went around and about).

Thank you! Just having someone commiserate is so relieving. DH is away at work until 7pm or later on week days, so he appreciates the "end product" but has no real sense of the inputs needed. (Our concepts of need are, shall we say, different, though I think the gap is rapidly closing the more I encourage Dad-DS solo play. DH grew up in a cold family where children were bred to be ignored, so he's a far cry from his parents.)


Yes!! I have the luxury of being able to nap or do computer work during DS' nap or, as is the case today, veg out on the forum.


Frankly, I think that's the best approach.

My control freakish inclination to plan will need to be tempered. That's probably a good thing in and of itself.


Yup, he started around 21 months but prefers strongly to be read to. He seems to have little motivation to read to himself, so again, my old friend "wait and see" is at my side.

His favourite play these days is imitating home repairs and inspection shows, which can't really be done with other children.

For instance, this has been our day:
- Cemented a crack in the pool deck
- Performed a top to bottom home "inspection", including note-taking
- Sawed a dead branch off a tree and sealed it
- Sorted leftover patio stones
- Cleaned the drain spouts
- Went for a few "forklift rides", in which I carry him all over the yard and deposit him in various "warehouses"
- Read a handful of books
- Ate two meals
- Built a working construction site out of gardening tools and duct tape, including a wrecking ball, crane, excavator, and construction elevator. This boy loves to build something from nothing!

DS tends to like imaginary scenarios that other children (esp. his age) won't understand, like excavating and replacing weeping tiles in a basement, or deploying a defibrillator to recussitate a patient. The benefit is we play some really interesting games and I get a ton of help around the house from my right hand man!


I'm going to look into that book--thanks for the recommendation.

Not so much about giftedness. It’s their intensities that make parenting so tiring.

I am always surprised how laidback my friend’s children are compare to our own.

I know EXACTLY what you mean by your decades comment! It feels like DS was programmed to be 10 by 3. I feel like I have parented several children in terms of the time and energy intensity of our interactions. I was in my mid-20s when he was born and was thankful to be a young, strong, energized mother for DS. Lord knows I need to be!

I have a friend who had three children in four years and I boggle at how that is even possible. They're all such mellow, cheery, laid back children. Three DS in 4 years would have been a kamikaze mission! (That's also a biological impossibility for me--the flip side of intensive full term nursing is that my fertility hasn't returned yet.) But every time I look at DS, I can't help but think that he's my favourite person (other than DH!) and will grow up to be an incredible man of many talents who I'd love to share life with. My little extroverted inventor, my snuggly treasure.

I'll PM you when even one of those things happens and we can have a forum party!

Ruf talks about the distinguishing factor of EG/PG children being intensity, and insofar as OEs are intelligence-linked, I'm of the mind that what I'm observing isn't solely temperament-driven.

And to add my own intensity to mix, it's explosive!

Yes to this too! DD is amazing and wonderful and we are completely in love with her. Knowing the result, I wouldn't go back and do anything differently... we just couldn't bring ourselves to do it again though.

I respect that.

DW and I openly tell DD9 that she's our favorite human being in the whole world. It's only natural that DW would rank DD ahead of me, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Looking back on when my kids were all little (my youngest was born when my oldest was 4), I think that DH and I were probably both in a frame of mind that didn't allow for thinking about the reality of things getting better when they got older. I don't think we really had time for that.

But honestly, it really does get better, and sooner than you think.

Also, YMMV, but I think that having a sib or two has been a wonderful thing for our kids.

Ditto. DD knows that we wanted her-- desperately-- and that she is absolutely the light of our lives. We just plain LIKE her, and who she is.

But our feelings about her are much as Ivy reports, too-- plus, we had the added worry with a second child that would, if biologically our own, likely have some of the very same challenges that had little to do with temperment or LOG, and everything to do with a bad hand of genetic material on some level. Life with DD during her first 3 years of life was downright harrowing-- it was the grinding fear that did it. We were just so continuously afraid for her safety.

It also felt like a second child would elevate DD's risks medically by dividing our attention or distracting the parent-in-charge, often at times and in ways that she could very ill afford (in crowds, around groups of kids, during chaotic events). The alternative was paying MORE attention (still) to DD and less to a sibling that "needed" us less. This is not hypothetical-- I really know a few families that lucked out and had a second child who was "unaffected" only to feel horrible guilt for being less available and attentive to that younger child. There's no glossing over that, because it's simply the way that things are. I really feared that we'd also be signing on for MORE limitations, too-- and we had gone to great pains to give DD what she could safely have in her life. So getting rid of a beloved pet, or making our house milk-free again would have really diminished her quality of life because her life was already so constrained, if that makes sense. When you live like that, it IS those little things that matter and give you tenuous glimpses of what it means to live normatively.

I couldn't FATHOM making my daughter's world smaller than it was... that felt incredibly selfish of us. It's hard to explain. By the time that we felt that it would have been okay, it was really too late for a biological sibling that would actually have BEEN a sibling, and it would have been risky and taken medical assistance to get us there. So we looked at adoption, too, but that also didn't feel fair to either child. By that time, we knew that DD was PG, and well, that's a tough act to follow (or live with) for any child-- biological sib or not. DH's experience being the HG sib of an EG sibling was quite telling there. We particularly didn't want the pattern of an adoptive NT sibling close in age and PG biologically-ours DD.

It's a really personal decision. No question that there are all kinds of inputs into it. In some ways I regret that we waited so long to have children. It didn't seem like we were so old (in our 30's), but it turned out that we'd waited too long. We did briefly try to have another. Didn't work out-- and what a nice euphemism for what that put us through.

As I said, the one thing that is a bummer about having an only is that all of her firsts are also our lasts. You only get one crack at parenting "4" or "13." Eventually, I learned to kind of take mental snapshots of DD at each age, so that I have a mental folder of little pressed flowers of what and who she was at those ages. I'll never live through them again as a parent, after all. That is sad, but then again, each child is different, so I might say that I "just loved 2!" and I DID with DD, but there's nothing to say that I could recapture it with a second child. So another child wasn't really the cure for my wistfulness that the time is too short, and all the more so with a PG-let, because they compress their own childhoods so dramatically. Most parents get to enjoy ages 0-18 before sending them off to college. Not true for so many of us on the forum.

We felt the same way with our second two children. Our older two were significantly older than the younger two, and by finding out gender and naming early on, it felt like they were already a part of our family. In fact, at times, the older ones talked about the younger ones in a way that confused people into thinking the younger ones had already been born! Both dds were in the room as their younger brothers were born, and oldest dd (9 at the time, but already planning a career in biology:)) was the first to touch both brothers, as they were emerging (she clearly found it more fascinating to watch then dh or I!). I understand both approaches, but for the siblings, finding out gender was a great way to bond.

I think a lot depends on how comfortable you feel changing your thinking from "my child requires my 24/7 attention" to my child "would like, demands, would benefit from, my full time attention," Our oldest would probably have loved to be an only child- she is PG and was VERY high intensity-fun and amazing and exhausting... and of course, she also didn't sleep well (luckily, 2 of our 4 did sleep well, including our best sleeper, #3, without which we might have stopped at that point!). All were co-sleepers and extensively nursed, but at some point, if you have more children, your child will adjust to the fact that they can't have you 24/7. I'll be honest, some of the kids DO get more attention due to their personality, which is probably unfair to the others, but hey, life is unfair. We try our best. Not to scare you off more kids forever, but my two intense ones definitely required a lot more ER/urgent care visits over the years (intense ones sometimes do crazy things, even with lots of supervision!!). But your children WILL adjust if you have more kids. And maybe this is stupid or naive to say, but I think my kids are good friends because we have made that a huge priority - being kind, developing joint interests, working and playing together, trying not to compare or cause resentment, etc... I think parents have a LOT to do with whether their kids become friends (and good citizens in general, although again, it took more work on all fronts for my most intense one). Did we give up things? Of course-and it definitely affected our finances and my career. I completely respect anyone who chooses not to give that up, but for me, honestly, my kids were more fun than any coworkers I can imagine, precisely because they were so smart and just great to be with.

We spend a lot of effort trying to help the kids learn to be kind and encouraging them to work together. We do a lot of things together as a family and encourage shared interests; my family comes with me on most business trips even though it would be far easier to go by myself (it gives the kids many opportunities to travel). Both kids are very empathetic in general. I can give you a long list of examples of considerate things they have done. For whatever reason, though, they just have trouble being friends. I don't think the fact that kids are not friends means their parents didn't teach them to be friends; some kids just have very different personalities and that can be challenging with two intense kids.

I'm sure parents can increase the chances that kids will be friends versus resenting each other and feeling unfairness, but they can't guarantee it.

In our case, I think our oldest would have loved to have -more- siblings (more rugrats to boss around, yk?)! Actually, quite seriously, #1 attracts children of all ages, but younger ones swarm. If we spend any significant amount of time in a place with some young children in it, an entourage will collect around #1. I think that affinity would have been well-met with a few additional younger siblings.

There is also value in contemplating the difference between giving your kids the same attention, and attention of equivalent value. We try to give our kids what they -need-, which isn't necessarily the same for each child, because, hey, they're different people. And we've also tried to instill in them a value of kindness and compassion that starts from our family, and extends to the family of humanity. Where kindness does what is in the best interest of the recipient, and not just what the giver perceives as being nice, so that it is entirely individualized, begins from principle and not simply pleasing, and also respects the agency of the one served. We don't want those who need more of something to feel defective, helpless, or entitled, nor those who need less of it to feel neglected or superior.

These compromises, balancing acts, or, as I prefer to view them, complementary relationships, are key to a civil, compassionate society. Sibling relationships, and the parent-child dynamics of a multi-child family, are a terrific sheltered, facilitated workshop in which to learn how to develop them.

Sorry, I seem to have wandered a little off-topic. And, of course, onlies can find relational networks in which to learn these skills as well. Mainly, I mean to say that this view of family has made it--I won't say not a sacrifice to parent multiple children, but--of much higher value to do so than anything we may have given up.

Every one of us is a work in progress...and that they show compassion, and can be friends with other people, means they've absorbed the principles you've taught them. It's so much harder to be gentle and considerate with those closest to you...

I think being very empathetic and intense can even make it difficult to be as kind to siblings as one would like. My daughter gets so tense after school (from being a perfectionist all day) that I think she feels like she can relax with her brother and take out her frustrations with someone who will put up with it. She knows intellectually that it's wrong and we have tried a wide range of coping techniques, but it's very difficult when she has had a stressful day (and something we work on every day).

I think I did something similar to my parents as I didn't have siblings; it can't have been fun for them.

Not at all off-topic. Perspective taking from the point of view of the multi-gifted child family is the central focus of the thread. I value your points that you've shared. Fundamentally, the family is like a lab school for the wider world in almost every way.

Not really at all. My older DD is not my gifted child, she had MANY health issues as a baby/toddler. I had reasons I waited and had my DS 4 1/2 years later. To be honest my non-gifted child was a lot more difficult to handle those first few years.

I noticed this thread last night and didn't have time to get caught up before I posted. Many more posts tonight!

For us, giftedness did not impact our plans, although it certainly has changed our experience, just as other special needs of friends' children has changed theirs. I was in my mid-30s when we married, so our plan was to get started quickly and have several, which we did.

We had our three within 3.5 years... and it was exhausting, all-consuming. I am a baby-wearing, nursing, very intentional parent and I have often marveled at how those first five years of parenting took everything I had. (Having said that, as others have noted, it did become remarkably easier once they hit certain milestones, such as sleeping through the night... dressing themselves... and when they were all potty-trained, what bliss!)

We had no family nearby, but you find a way. They are all incessant talkers -- which DH would say is because of the steady stream of conversation I kept up before they could talk. because of this, I used to have our oldest call my parents when I needed a moment. At 18 mos, he could happily talk to my mom non-stop for 45 min or so, which thrilled her and which gave me quite the mental break! Since I had him dial, he memorized the number without me realizing it and then he called her early one morning before I woke up and talked with her for an hour before waking me up. (I then realized I couldn't let him dial any other numbers lest he dial those homes at 5 a.m.!) It has been 6 years since this started and I still have them call my parents when I need a quiet moment!

And, by the time our third was born, our oldest could sit near me when I nursed and read to our middle child... and there were many other unexpected helps. (I sent our oldest to a wonderful play-based preschool, because I knew he needed that time with bigger kids and I had my hands full... and I kept the second one home, because with her sensory issues, she needed that and my hands were not nearly as full. And I had an amazing offer to work in my field 10 hours/wk and bring each of the babies with me for their first 9 mos, so I had a bit of a break, meaningful work and time with each of them with me in a sling, which helped me refuel.)

I know yours would not be nearly as close as ours, but I thought I'd post just to share our experience, which -- though not without its share of chaos -- has been such a delightful one. I have learned in a deeper way to trust that "all will be well." There have been many challenges we never anticipated, but so many unexpected blessings from our trio, too. Whatever you decide, trust that it is what is right for you.

I just wanted to clarify that I didn't mean to imply in my previous post that if parents just told their kids to be friends all would be well, or that kids' "niceness" depended solely on parenting. Firstly, my perspective is from the parent of (at least several) grown children, so obviously, life has gotten much easier! Just like in pregnancy, one forgets (thank goodness!) some of the really tough times. But, I would also encourage all parents of intense, prickly, hard-to-be-friends-with-at-times gifties that it DOES get better. I think all the parenting pays off eventually, but believe me, our oldest dd also could be very challenging for both us and her siblings when she was younger. Just like your dd, my oldest knew intellectually how to treat people, but was often overwhelmed by her emotions (and often felt terribly guilty afterwards when she didn't act they way she knew she should). However, it got easier and easier every year and as a 20-something, she is a lovely, empathetic, and emotionally in-tune woman. After reading some of the comments, I was afraid that I gave the mistaken impression that my children were best friends from day one who never had a moment's disagreement. I'm not THAT delusional, even if each of the four kids has killed a few brain cells.

Fascinating discussion (that I missed while on vacation).

Giftedness didn't factor into family planning. We wanted two or three children close in age. We were lucky, and we have DS6, DD4, and DS3.

My eldest, our DYS, has been challenging in virtually all areas since he arrived (actually, before he arrived). I had a traumatic delivery as well... several life threatening events all at once.

I was afraid to get pregnant again and go through it all again, but I wanted more than one and I wanted them close so we went for it. Nineteen months later, DD was born. Her delivery was a dream. She slept through the night her first night on the planet. She is calm and sweet and easy going. Like someone said earlier, I don't know if she is pg or not but she's definitely bright and her EQ is worlds above most adults I know.

Then we had my youngest 22 months later. He's the most charismatic and easy going child.

Yes, I am just now feeling like things are getting easier. I'm coming up for air, but I'm happy with our choice. We have three smart, interesting, and entertaining little people. They have a blast together and their conversations are incredible.

My eldest remains a challenge, but he would have been a challenge without his siblings. At least now he has companions who are likely gifted as well.

I never found out what we were having while pregnant with all 3 of mine. And if I am lucky enough to have another, we won't find out with that one either. People would always ask us the same question, "Do you know what you are having?" And we'd always reply, "Yes! We know 100%, it's either a boy or girl!" :-)

This question made me laugh! Our children are somewhat widely spaced due to how exhausting child #1 was. Also, we're not having any more, but that's also a function of house size and financial carrying capacity. My two kids are SO different in personality that I do sometimes feel a twinge of sadness that there won't be a third, just to see what the mix would be.

I do sometimes wish I'd had them closer (they are 4ish years apart) but given how things were, it's okay. They act closer in age than they are, with my oldest acting young for age (emotionally) and my youngest acting old for age. I think this often happens.

FWIW, I also feel that 4 years is a good spread if your 1st child was...a handful. Most 4yos are relatively self-managing in various ways. This can be hard to foresee or understand with a 2yo, or even a 3yo. If he/she is in your bed, though, I recommend getting him/her out before baby arrives. Two kids with labor-intensive "requires parent" lengthy bedtime routines (obviously babies do) or a need for a parental body in bed to sleep= crazymaking. What happens if one parent is gone? Seen it too many times. Super hard on families.

This, and I don't know a single parent of more than one child who wouldn't agree. IMO, every parent worries about this, and every parent then realizes it's not an issue. Love definitely expands. Personally, I felt like I couldn't possibly imagine what it would be like to have a boy, after only had a girl and of course, BEING one (I did have a slight preference for a girl as my first--no preference for the second, just couldn't imagine it). The idea was just slightly alienating. Now it's like I don't have any idea how I could have thought that.