Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments laurel springs high school gifted and talented

What if any experiences have people had, the good the bad and the ugly?! TIA

Good experiences. There is a critical mass of gifted kids and a dedicated (in both senses) group of gifted teachers. They always "get it" when I ask for customization, and they are responsive and sensitive. Acceleration is simple -- pick the level your kid is ready for, and take it. My 7th grader took Honors 10th grade English and Honors Algebra and HS French, all no problem. As a 9th grader, DC will be taking AP classes.

That said, it IS, IMO, still very much homeschooling-flavored. By that I mean that the actual teaching is done by the parent or tutor at home. LSS is very upfront about this. Their teachers are definitely available for curriculum customization and student/parent questions, but the teachers don't lecture or provide presentations. Parents/tutors have to do that. So, for example, language learning has to be done by the parent/tutor; there is NO way a kid could learn a language from the book or online materials given.

So what we like is the range of courses and the customization -- if you want, say, more modern novels and fewer short stories, and if what you want is academically respectable, you'll get it! Or a long research paper added in. The teachers are excellent, and they grade rigorously, especially in the honors courses. The Honors courses have zero multi-choice work; it's all writing. So if your kid doesn't like to write, this might not be the school for you, but we love it -- DC wrote something like eight 1500-word essays in English this year, plus probably another ten "two-page" (500-800) word essays, plus 1000-2000 words of additional weekly short-response questions. The questions are nicely analytical -- not just plot-checking.

We like the credentialling value and the reality-check/feedback aspect: the teachers grade the work, give feedback, and have a sense of where your child is compared to others. DC will graduate with a transcript from an accredited school, and the curriculum is common-core aligned, etc.

The downsides (not for us but for others in different situations) would be that you need a parent/tutor capable of teaching the whole curriculum (we have, between us, degrees in a range of subjects from English to social science to math plus high-level competence in three languages and one of us is a professional writer). Gifted kids can certainly teach themselves a lot, but I don't think I'd expect any kid to complete high school with no real-time teaching.

Another downside (not for us) is that I suspect that the science curriculum needs a heavy parental/tutor presence if it's going to be engaging and rigorous. None of us, including DC, are science-oriented, so reading a textbook plus kitchen labs plus some research papers are fine for us, but I don't think that approach is going to satisfy a science kid or generate a Westinghouse candidate.

For humanities, we've found the courses (especially taking into account the acceleration options) to be great. DC was reading HUCK FINN and "Beowulf" when the kids in the local "difficult" private school were reading JOURNEY TO THE CENTER OF THE EARTH and LORD OF THE FLIES (both of which DC had read eons ago).

What to ask for/watch for: I have a sense that the non-Honors courses are more multi-choice heavy. Don't take them, or ask for customization (JMO). I would also watch out for any vendor courses. We have found that the courses created in-house by Laurel Springs are serious, well-done, and (at the Honors level) writing- and analysis-intensive. But they do offer some vendor courses (Middlebury/Power Speak languages and the occasional Apex offering), which I dislike. You have to dig and ask or else be prepared to try the courses and switch (which they are quite generous about).

Can I ask what literature you kid read in the 10th grade English class? Are they willing to accommodate to state/district choices? My dream for next year would accept would be to "homeschool/online" school my son just English next year. (While still enrolled at the H.S.) I have a friend who used Laurel Springs as online "summer" classes so I know the district allows these classes to count. I am already hiring a tutor to help him with his writing and I would have her help him.

All that said this is just a dream. I really really doubt I could manage to convince my son's H.S. to allow him to not be enrolled in a "required" class like English. Even if the testing this we are planning to do this summer does show 2E and that they really don't have a class that works for him.

P.S. Looked this up online, and answered my own questions. Seems that if I wanted to align with what my son would be taking next yer in 10th, he would have to take the American Literature 11th grade course. And the literature of the Laurel Springs honors class is WAY more interested than the non-honors version.

I'd also caution re: credentialing in the sciences-- many colleges won't accept online coursework, even if it (nominally) "includes a lab."



I'll say this as well-- given our experiences with Connections (a quite similar model-- albeit with a lot more emphasis on stupid multiple choice assessment)-- I'd be reluctant to sign on to spend SO much $$ just to effectively homeschool. Just, you know, without the choice of curriculum and activities that one can enjoy as a real homeschooler.

It's not that I think this kind of thing is bad, exactly-- it's just that most of what the organization/school has to say about it is pure marketing hype.

As the previous poster noted-- it's homeschooling. If you lack expertise in an area (whether that is math, literature, grammar, foreign language-- whatever it is)-- plan to hire a tutor. More $$.

Honestly, the math instruction with Connections (and, it sounds like, with LS as well, which comes as little surprise to me) is inferior even to Khan Academy, which I (personally) consider grossly inadequate as college preparatory mathematics.

I've not found a completely satisfactory online alternative that leads to a high school diploma, however. LS is no worse than Connections, for sure, and in some ways better. Just be prepared for the cost to be kind of staggering given what you get out of it.

HK, as always, makes important points. One thing that I should've mentioned originally, but that the OP seemed to anticipate, is that there are two divisions of the school. One is "regular" Laurel Springs, which is better than but roughly analogous to K12 (based on my experience, LSS has, more often, in-house curriculum and "real" teachers you can talk to; K12 not so much; caveat that I haven't seen K12 for several years). Even "regular" Laurel Springs is light years better than Apex (from what I've seen). I can't speak to Connections; I've never seen its curricula or had a child enrolled in it.

The other division is the Laurel Springs Academy for the Gifted and Talented, which requires testing and recommendations to document giftedness and has separate teachers, students, symposia, and so on. The peers seem quite good but aren't all that visible to us, outside of the symposia and some clubs. Instead, the big difference is that the Academy students are able to request 100% customization. So if you want to replace the content of a course with something higher-level that is academically justified as MORE rigorous, you can do it.

Customization is the critical safety valve that I have not seen at any other online provider: I am not boxed in if I'm dissatisfied with course content. Teachers often have good ideas on their own for customization, because they do have experience with other gifties, but they're open to a well-reasoned argument for customization from parents, as long as the rigor is there.

Hope that helps. Whether it's worth the money and the obligation to meet the CA graduation requirements is an individual decision. I wouldn't use any of the other online providers. DC was accepted at Stanford University Online High School, but at that time the school had a very disorganized vibe and onerous administrative rules and penalties (you have to "show up" live twice a week; are penalized if you don't; and are penalized if your computer/software etc. isn't working; all this scared my DC, who has many outside activities not entirely under our scheduling control). We like the at-your-own pace of homeschooling, so Laurel Springs works for us. Again, others may have different needs, and of course "real" homeschooling is most flexible.

Whether the math is good probably depends on your home teacher. The textbooks are all standard California texts from major publishers and not Everyday Math (thank God). I've found that there are options within Laurel Springs-- if you want, say, the Lial instead of something else, you can do it. But what I'm seeing is that the standard textbooks themselves seem to take a fairly mechanical and non-theoretical approach. So if teaching the textbook is what your parent or tutor provides, that's what you'll get. We do more than that, but that's us. I haven't had a HS kid before, so whether this is Common Core-related or just American education, I do not know.

A downside: the Gifted & Talented Academy is an all-or-nothing proposition, so, bluemagic, the only option for a single course is "regular" Laurel Springs.

We are looking at different options for DS12 who will be in 8th grade next year. We have had him in public schools up to this time. The 35+ student classes and inflexible curriculum even in the gate program are a real problem. He's just so very bored there...

How well do Connections Academy and Laurel Springs Online cater to the gifted/accelerated student? Much of their marketing focus appears to be on their flexible schedule for athletes or kids who can't be in a classroom all day. We are more interested in the self-paced features and access to above grade level courses.

I can't speak to Connections. Laurel Springs has two divisions: regular and gifted. BOTH offer self-paced curriculum (it's all self-paced; none of it except optional AP discussion/lecture sections are synchronous, and even those are taped and can be watched at other times) and BOTH divisions offer acceleration. Basically, the kids take what they are ready for. My 7th grade dc took high-school Honors humanities and just skipped all the middle school stuff. What a relief after grade-level public school! DC is now going into 9th grade and has accumulated two years of high-school credit. DC is doing AP work now as a 9th grader -- something not permitted in most schools, but again, at either branch of LS, you take what you can handle.

Keep in mind it IS homeschool, though. My dc can learn a LOT independently, but especially as the work gets more advanced, it's a better experience if I do some discussion/teaching and sprinkle in some thoughtful documentaries etc. Writing is especially instruction-heavy for us, but then, it's an area of strength for dc.

The Gifted division of Laurel Springs is useful for two things: (a) you get selected teachers who have some training in dealing with gifted kids (the teachers have all been quite good and are enthusiastic and have plenty of time -- they do not seem to be under a crushing workload), and you can continue with these teachers throughout high school, which is really nice, and (b) (this is huge) the Academy kids get 100% customization, meaning that if you ask for it, and if what you ask for is academically respectable, they will enrich/raise the level/change the content of any course. To take an example: DC had read a lot of the 18th and 19th century British literature on the syllabus. So the teacher had him read 20th and 21st century British literary novels. To take another example: DC was able to substitute (as a 7th grader) long-form essays, paintings with commentary, and research papers for more standard guided reading type short answers.

PS. If you call Laurel Springs (click on the Gifted tab) and talk to the Gifted Admissions coordinator, you'll get a real, live person who counsels lots of families and (our experience) usually is pretty knowledgeable. One of the reasons we opted for LS over Stanford Online High School (although you should check this out, since our experience is now several years old) is that I could not get a live person on the phone at Stanford --everything was group emails. I don't mean to be hard on Stanford Online; they were expanding their program at the time, and when I finally did get a (very nice) counselor on the phone, she explained that they were having some growing pains. But the spirit of Laurel Springs just seemed warmer and more human. It's worth a lot to me to have a real human being on the other end of the phone, and there are enough repeat players that I feel I have a familiar person to turn to if I need something.

We are more interested in the self-paced features and access to above grade level courses.

I tend to think that MOST schools using this kind of model are going to be okay with both of those things. That is, there won't be huge pragmatic differences at the secondary level. The reason is that two things have to be true:

1. Accreditation/transcript-building provides a fairly hard boundary on "self-paced" learning the way that most of us probably consider it here-- that is, sure, you can work as fast as you like, but it's NOT going to be like ALEKS, Khan, or EPGY open, where you can just smoothly run through one, two, or three years' worth of curriculum on a single course registration. So yes, you CAN do algebra II in three weeks. Knock yourself out. BUT-- you'll be generating a grade which is tied (more or less) to one semester of a transcript. Now, where the flexibility happens is in a willingness to allow for concurrent registration-- or LATE registration-- to courses. How far will they push that envelope for really capable kids, hmm? Well, I know for a fact that once Connections realizes that they are dealing with a EG/PG student, they'll push it pretty darned far. DD added AP US History semester B in MARCH. Three full weeks into spring term, and without having had semester A. It took five minutes. So being a student/family that pretty much has a blank check with stuff like that can really help.

2. No problem. At least not inherently-- it is WAY easier to shift students and staffing needs virtually than in a bricks-and-mortar setting. DD took "senior" level classes starting at about 11yo, and continued doing so all through high school. High school courses were available to her in middle school, as well, since she was GT. We were a bit reluctant since there were snags regarding credit, etc. So she got Math on her high school transcripts starting at 9yo, but wouldn't have gotten credit for computer science electives... but-- they said she could TAKE THEM AGAIN for high school credit once she was in high school. (Yeah; repetition? NO thank you. I think they missed the point re: why that would be counterproductive).


The bottom line, though, is that you can have EITHER a "real-class, with classmates and a teacher working together in real-time" or you can have "self-paced." If you choose the one, you lose the other. Sure, you can watch recordings (unless you're working out AHEAD of your classmates, that is-- which, um-- yeah... that DOES tend to be what most of our kids are likely to be doing)-- but you won't get the interaction.

My DD eventually found that the trade was something she didn't want to do. So she worked FEWER HOURS, at lower effort-level, so as to keep in step with the course schedule, and participate actively. I recommend that approach, by the way, because otherwise, you're hamstringing the ability of teachers to speak at length about the student on letters of recommendation.

Customization is the critical safety valve that I have not seen at any other online provider: I am not boxed in if I'm dissatisfied with course content. Teachers often have good ideas on their own for customization, because they do have experience with other gifties, but they're open to a well-reasoned argument for customization from parents, as long as the rigor is there.


Okay--the customization thing DOES exist at Connections, but understand that being a public school (charter schools in most states) they aren't going to advertise the fact or put it in writing-- a lot of their non-gifted clientele would instantly twist that to get out of topics in science or social studies (ahem) that they don't want their kids covering. {sigh}

Those people DO regularly do things like exempt their kids from reading assignments like To Kill A Mockingbird, though. That's pretty much system-wide.

You just have to be a squeaky wheel. There are mandated check-points, but a lot of the rest is highly fluid, and open to additions, substitutions, etc. But it's usually at the individual teacher level-- so you have to negotiate it. On the other hand, families are VERY definitely seen as "customers" by the model, so if you're not happy, they will do whatever they can to MAKE you happy.