Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy parenting an outlier - moment of panic

I had my parent teacher conferences with DS7's teachers at his summer camp. It is a camp with "gifted" in the title. We have had a great experience with this camp last year and this year. This year, they easily accelerated him and there have been zero issues.

At today's conference, one of his teacher's stated that he has never seen a kid like DS. In the accelerated subject, DS is apparently very patient with his classmates, but DS is "Well beyond" them in ability and drive. The teacher told me that "no one" has drive and persistence like DS. He went on to tell me what kind of education he thinks DS needs. He suggested that DS should be working with a mentor at the college level (in DS's areas of strength - engineering and science).

OK, so the past few weeks, I've been planning on putting DS in algebra in the fall (probably around october, november) and had kind of thought I could wrangle something together for science at home. This teacher thinks that DS can and should be working at the college level. So - a moment of panic for me! I really do not think that DS (who will be 8 soon) should be attending a live college class. But he clearly needs more than what I was thinking of at home. I didn't think that I needed to start looking for a mentor now. Thoughts from anyone on how to meet this need? (Some of the panic comes from the knowledge that I can't just throw some books at DS to meet this need in science/engineering. He needs a lab or workshop, I guess?)

ETA: we will be doing first lego league this fall. But I am new to that club, and don't know if this is an appropriate way to meet DS's needs.

Maybe you should treat the advice as one person's opinion. Also were they literally suggesting college level classes, or were they just saying seek advice from a college faculty member. In an earlier thread a few months ago you said your DS7 was in 5th grade math.
http://giftedissues.davidsongifted...._get_my_son_into_acceler.html#Post186434
It seems he should do a course sequence up to calculus (and add some discrete math) before trying college math or science classes.

If you're homeschooling a highly mathy kid, AoPS is the way to go.

I have no idea what to do for science and would love to hear suggestions.

Actually, you can, at least in computer programming.

AOPS used to use
1) 'Python Programming for the Absolute Beginner' by Michael Dawson
and now uses (a somewhat modified version of)
2) 'Think Python: How to Think Like a Computer Scientist' by Allen B. Downey (in print, or free online at http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/). I recommend both books.

Installing python would take just a few minutes.

(If you are interested, I can mention a few 'gentle introduction' computer science books too.)

This was from DS's engineering teacher. The teacher teaches engineering classes in a public magnet high school. The teacher felt that DS was beyond what he teaches in his HS engineering classes. So, he just thought that if DS were in his class, he wouldn't have much to offer. He says that DS's ideas are extremely sophisticated and that DS has an innate understanding of various laws of physics/chemistry. So, for example, they are working as a class, on building something. DS takes their simple project and brings it way beyond what they are doing in class. The teacher felt it would be great if DS had a place to actually develop his ideas and create them.

As for math, DS finished 5th grade math in June, placed out of 6th grade math and is working on pre algebra online now.

In my mind, what would be optimal would be DS visiting my father's garage with his amazing collection of hand tools, robots and various devices. But my father is no longer around and the tools are long gone (and not like I could even work with them if I had them).

I will say, that at a cocktail party once, I briefly mentioned one of DS's ideas to a patent attorney. (I know that rule #1 of talking to patent attorneys is to not tell them about your/your mother's/your friend's great idea). This guy asked me what DS was working on lately, and so I shared it with him. (He is a friend of the family.) He emailed me a few days later and said he thought DS's idea was patentable. (It was a rather simple thing that DS thought of - an easy device to make babies more comfortable.) I never pursued it of course because it costs like, thousands of dollars to get a patent. And really, who cares? But I was just trying to illustrate that it's the creating and building that DS needs to do to fulfill his great need. He's got some good ideas!

Here is a great book to start with electronic circuits: 'Electronic Circuits for the Evil Genius 2/E' by Dave Cutcher.

It starts from the basics. No soldering required. The parts are cheap.

A physics textbook would be a helpful companion, to use as needed. E. g., Halliday physics was recommended by Bostonian earlier. Try to get the 5 volume edition - much easier to use (so that electricity would be in 1 volume).

Okay-- I'm going to recommend that you take a BIG deep breath, remind yourself that your child is the same person that you've been parenting all this time (that is, YOU know him much better than any teacher or camp counselor possibly could)-- and then, for lack of a better way of phrasing this...

consider the SOURCE of that statement carefully, and take into account this person's perspective. Along the lines posted by 22B already-- maybe this person was saying "I certainly don't know what to do with this child," and saving his/her own professional dignity by asserting that only a "college level" would suit (that is, completely understandable why s/he wouldn't be able to help you).

Recall firstly that MOST of the children that this person encounters are not gifted. They are ideally bright, maybe slightly TigerParented kids... and depending upon where you live, maybe a LOT TigerParented.

So in the first place, Gifted Children may be outside of the norm for this person's experience. Okay, triple that when you're discussing a child who is HG+-- because they are that much rarer. Only people with considerable experience will have encountered a child like this. That's to be expected.

When a THIRTY year educator in gifted ed tells you "I've never seen anything like it!" that is a very different statement from a college Ed major saying it, if you see what I mean. Camp teachers run the gamut, there-- so again, consider WHO made this statement to you. What context are they seeing your child in?

It's ALSO a very different thing when a teacher who has a teaching masters in a subject says this, versus someone with an early childhood endorsement, versus a PhD in the subject itself.

Often what teachers mean with statements like this is "beyond what I can offer." But what they may NOT be pointing out is that "what I can offer" isn't very high level to start with. Most teachers who work with kids in grades 4-12 can't themselves manage more than a sophomore college level challenge in the subject matter at hand-- some of them considerably less than that. I say that as someone who has seen a LOT of future high school chemistry teachers as "grad" students; most of them have a FAR weaker grasp on the subject than any of the regular Chem majors. So a child who has even a "late secondary" level need in the subject is going to seem pretty scary/freaky to such people, and probably make them feel inadequate to the task.

In short-- before you panic, consider that it is really unlikely that you need to completely retool everything that you've been doing for your child. Even among the kids in this community, TRULY being college-ready at your DS' age would be unusual. Now, INTEREST is another matter, of course, than true "readiness."

He almost certainly has needs beyond what 99% of his agemates do, and likely beyond what any "GT" camp aimed at regular gifted (and more likely, aimed at bright, high SES) kids is going to offer.

Some suggestions for activities where he can explore some of those interests--

* science museums-- check online and ask around for a good one near you-- think Exploratorium-like, hands-on places that offer workshops and lab classes.

* local university-- see if they have science programs for early secondary students. Many do-- but make sure that they aren't just fluff, first. There is "outreach" intended to maintain INTEREST in average-and-bright children, and then there is the hard core stuff that "average" students can't manage-- go after the latter, not the former.

* LEGO robotics.

I would take the advice with a grain of salt. What is the most advanced math course at your HS? Calc BC, Linear Algebra, Multivariable Calc? Your kid is not there yet. To do "real" physics, you need calc. And most college courses labeled "College Algebra" are for the kids that didn't get math in HS. You don't want him in that class.

Continue to encourage him and continue to give him opportunities - but don't send him to a college class for a few years.

(Crossed posts with you)

Oh-- and be prepared to argue to accelerate even with those ideas. It sounds as though your DS would really love some of the creativity involved in LEGO robotics in particular. But being HG+, he'll need to be with those older kids in order to be challenged. DD found that about a 2-3Y acceleration put her into the sweet spot with programming and robotics work at your DS' age and just past it (she's PG, but not especially so in STEM in particular).

I have to agree that without having even had algebra or geometry yet... um-- your DS isn't prepared even for intro courses in college science subjects-- and not by a very wide margin, truthfully. "Intuitive" understanding of classical mechanics is... again, trying to be diplomatic here and likely failing (apologies) often OVER-RATED by engineers, in my experience. Yes, this is good-- certainly better than a lack of such intuition-- but it doesn't substitute for a theoretical understanding. This is a divide that is commonly termed "book smart" versus "good with one's hands." Kids who are profoundly good at the latter are still going to be challenged significantly by the former, (and vice versa, which in general people seem to accept much more readily).

Feeding his interest and enthusiasm, and letting him explore his creativity, though-- that's going to be a challenge, particularly if your own interests/expertise isn't in STEM. But this is a challenge in a GOOD way, not in a scary way.

What are you using for pre-algebra?

I really don't know what to advise for engineering and science. You are describing a very advanced level for physical science. But he still needs to bring his mathematics up to that level.

ETA What are you planning to use for Algebra(1?)?

You could try to find a local hackerspace. The hacker mentality is about doing and learning; the folks I know are very open to anyone of whatever age (given certain safety caveats.) Many of them even without kids volunteer for local FIRST teams and such.

Here's a locator:
http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/List_of_Hacker_Spaces

I walked away while writing the below, so I can see I'm duplicating a lot of what's been said already, but I'm too lazy to edit, so:

Based on his rate of progress, it sounds like your DS is on track to be doing calculus at about age 10 or so (assuming he is allowed instruction appropriate to his pace). This is still well within reach of most high schools, so I don't think you necessarily need to worry about live college classes until then. In any case, many intro level college courses are available as online or blended classes, where his face time with young adult classmates would be relatively limited.

When my sib started college courses at about that age, my mother attended classes for the first several weeks (discreetly, in the back of the lecture hall), until she was comfortable that a good transition had been made. (Of course, not everyone can do that.) I also attended some college courses as a pre-teen, unaccompanied, but with frequent consultation between my parents, program staff, and my professors.

As a parent, I have a hard time imagining my own children taking college courses at that age, but I know my siblings and I did it without any noticeable ill effect, so I'm pretty sure it can be done...

WRT science, labs are great, but there are safety concerns with young children for some types of labs, even if they are very careful, simply because the scale of lab equipment is not suited to their size. I think it might make more sense to not worry about for-credit, sophisticated experimentation, and, instead, give him access to a range of information (we used to have subscriptions to magazines like Scientific American, when we were children--wait, maybe my parents actually wanted to read that themselves?). On the experiential end, the basics of physics (other than quantum) can be picked up in everyday life observation. (I think there's an old physics teacher saying, "Everything you need to know about physics, you've learned by the age of two.") Most of biology up until biochemistry is just observation of organisms around you. Tons of chemistry happens in the kitchen. (We had a little book, now out of print, I think, called Science Experiments You Can Eat. Oh, here's the revised edition on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Science-Experiments-You-Can-Eat/dp/0064460029) Lego robotics and design software and MIT Scratch are highly recommended by many people for engineering.

And don't forget, the scientific method can be applied to anything open to repeated measurement. If he understands the empirical method before college, he will be well ahead of most of the adult population of this country.

I guess I am not as concerned with credentialing, rather with feeding the interests of the child, and a solid foundation in scientific thinking.

OK, great advice as usual here. Thank you!

As far as the teacher's background, he is a second career teacher. He was an engineer for a few years (maybe 5-8) and then decided he wanted to teach. He has been teaching for about 10 years and maintains a consulting firm on the side. The school that he teaches at is a county public magnet school. The students have to test into the school, so I'm sure they are getting some top students.

I wasn't actually thinking of putting DS into a college class. That would be nuts. I myself was a bit confused (that's why I came here!) when the teacher suggested that DS should be working at the college level - when DS is just starting algebra in the fall.

I'm just going to keep doing what we're doing and see how the first lego league goes. I was able to get him into an older group on a trial basis, since the group leader doesn't know him.

I just worry that I'm not doing enough for DS. Like, that really gnaws away at me. In my mind it's like having a very gifted dancer in my house, and I'm only letting her dance in her pack n play. And the worry is fueled by my huge weakness in his areas of strength. I don't have a sense of what the typical sequence is in a lot of these subjects. The extent of my STEM education includes all of the AP classes offered in those subjects many years ago (minus the programming classes). DH is helpful, though he tells me that he wasn't truly challenged until he was working on his Ph.D. - when he was 18. So DH has the experience, but I do the legwork in terms of finding the appropriate resources for DS.

Thank you! We pretty much live at our local science museum (it's a big urban one). The docents know DS by name. The docents who do the electricity and magnetism shows joke that DS can run things if they are ever absent. (Not only is this museum awesome for science, but they have an amazing indoor space where my toddlers can run around freely. We are there A LOT.)

We are signed up with a first lego league in the fall. First time trying it. We will see.

I will definitely look into university summer programs. Thank you so much for the tip!

Such a great idea! I will definitely try this out! Thank you!

Thanks so much! My DH began college classes around 11 and he also thought it worked just fine for him in the long run but complained that they were not challenging to him at the time. It is very hard for me to imagine DS on a similar path, but I better get used to the idea because I suspect he will have the same needs (DH comments that DS is "faster" than he was at the same age.)

We have done lots and lots of home experiments fortunately. I do feel like DS has a good grasp on the scientific method.

At the moment DS is in love with physics and engineering. He has plowed through the $.50 hs physics book that I got for him at the used book store. He also loves quantum physics and wonders how he can experiment at the quantum level.

He studied chemistry on his own last year (when he was in first rade), again devouring a cheap used textbook. He has done some the experiments found in his texts.

I am extremely fortunate that when DS says something like, "Dad, do you think that I can jump a farther distance if I am standing on a higher object?", my DH's response is to grab a stack of graph paper, chalk and a measuring tape. They will head out to the playground and use the proper methods for finding out the answers.

Thank you again for your response!

ETA: yes, we have a subscription to SA! It's great for DS.

Sounds like your DS is growing up in the same kind of STEM immersion environment that our home has provided for our DD! She can come across as way more knowledgeable (well, more than WE think that she is, anyway) to adults that don't know this about her-- but it's just because of things like that.

She started doing real experiments with controls and everything (and talking to us in an organic kind of way about variables-- controlled and uncontrolled, and onward from there) along with learning algebra and basic writing skills. To her, there is no bright line that divides "science" from "reality" or "daily living."

From my perspective, it doesn't have to be complicated to be sophisticated, and you can grow the types of questions you can (realistically) explore as his math skills grow.

DD was thrilled to take AP Physics and Stats in high school, and immediately saw the applications and extensions in what she was learning. She also went back to things she had been stymied by in earlier investigations-- which surprised me some. She did this experiment re: acid raid and geology at about 8 that she didn't (yet) possess the statistical understanding to fully ANALYZE. As soon as she saw how to do two-tailed t testing, she was all over it again, and with a great deal of satisfaction for having finally figured out something that had been brewing at the back of her brain for years.

It's all part of the big picture with a child that thinks about things this way. All of that to say-- just keep doing what you're doing. In growing a scientist or engineer, the best thing to do is stay out of the way as much as you can. Avoid asking things like; "What IS that thing?? And why is it stinking up my living room?" or "Is ____ on fire/smashed/painted for a reason?" LOL!

I don't have much to offer but your post reminded me of a video I watched on the news some time ago about this 12-year old boy who loves to build robots. Here is a link http://mashable.com/2013/09/12/robot-developer/. I remember from the news story that his dad somehow got him an internship at a local software firm and the owner was amazed at what this kid could build. Maybe there are similar internship opportunities in your area where your DS might get the opportunity to solve real life problems. I also had a childhood friend who was totally into chemistry and her parents setup a real lab for her in the house when she turned 13. I thought that was so cool that they could afford it though looking back, I am not sure how we averted any accidents with zero adult supervision! Anyway, sounds like you have a fun challenge at your hand.

You have me chuckling.

ITA with Howler

FWIW, and please don't think this is critical in *any* way at all, just an observation - but my first thought when I read your OP was - you must not be a scientist

Speaking as a scientist (in a family of science geeks and engineers), and as a parent of an obviously future engineer who was coming up with some danged original and very cool ideas about science at a very early age - it sounds like your thoughts were headed in the direction many folks' thoughts default to for kids who are good at science: accelerate in math, and look to Lego League Acceleration in math is good - as long as your child *wants* it and needs it - (which all of your past posts point to lol!)… but it's also not something that has to happen for a kid who is good at science, and it's also not a given that every child who has amazing scientific ideas and loves science is also going to be gangbusters-excited and interested in delving into uber-math-acceleration My ds is accelerated in math, but he wasn't when he was little and had all these amazing science ideas and was capable of deep complicated scientific thought processes. And that was ok - his math caught up with him. Had we tried to have him spend extra time on math because of his science interest, that would have backfired (does that make sense? I'm not sure I explained it well).

Re Lego League - it's great for some kids, and it doesn't work out for others - so I would go into it just looking at it as something fun to try. My ds is very much into robotics - but when he was your ds' age our attempts to get him interested in First Lego League fizzled - he was much happier programming his own robot at home. What we ran into was a three-fold: if your group is going to participate in the competitions, it's not all about robotics. Half of the competition for First Lego League is (or at least used to be) a research/presentation project on the topic-of-the-year - which was fun for some of the kids in our group, but ds was never really into it. Second thing was ability - ds could see solutions to programming challenges by osmosis, but many of the kids in the group were much slower to see solutions and also much slower at picking up programming skills - so ds spent a lot of time waiting plus being the 'helper'. Third thing was boundaries on what we could/couldn't do placed on us by the school we sponsored the group through. Please know this isn't everyone's experience - we have a friend with a HG+ kid who is a bit younger than ds who was able to organize a group of kids that really gels and has a good time with it

We also had people suggest learning programming for our ds when he was young - again, I think this is another easy default thought because it's relatively easy to find programming courses online or for some people to learn programming through tutorials or a book. (Please know I'm *not* being critical of learning programming :)). The thing is, don't substitute an activity like that for time spent learning, experimenting, and loving science if *science* is what your ds is interested in. If he's begging to learn programming, that's great, let him. If he's constantly asking questions about science and devouring it when he reads, give him more opportunities to explore wherever his mind leads. Programming can be picked up later when he wants to or has a need to.

Anyway, for a science-minded child I firmly believe the best thing you can do is to follow their lead (which you are doing!) - listen to their ideas and questions, give them opportunities to dig deep into whatever interests them, and just go with it. They don't have to be enrolled in a college-level physics course at 8 to be thinking through high level concepts - as HK mentions, they will come back to the questions that interest them as they learn more about math and other things Or they may abandon some of their early interests and move on into other areas.

Have fun seeing where your ds' interests lead

polarbear

ps - I would also talk again to the person who brought this up. He might be a person who would be able to suggest a mentor for your ds - a scientist he could spend time with just having "fun" with whatever your ds is interested in. I'm not suggesting tutoring or formal training, but for instance, if your ds was really into bridges and structures, maybe you could find someone who has training in civil engineering to spend some time with ds…. etc

My DS is 8 and is super science guy but for awhile I worried what the heck we were going to do in science because his math interests and skills were behind (in the crazy sense that he comprehends really advanced science like quantum physics, but wasn't doing double digit subtraction well but was devouring murderous maths). Eventually his mathiness clicked in, he is globally skipped but with no interest in moving faster beyond reading about it or doing apps. So will start 4th/5th grade math in fall.

So what this has meant is an evaluation of how to get him the science he craves, and to keep growing with it. There is really no good answer - he hated CTY science. And he can't go to college. So we do a lot of videos like the great courses series - they are pitched for adults but don't use math, just the advanced concepts. Tons of stuff on YouTube. And we take him to lectures, like at the World Science Festival, we tried it at a colleague reunion when he was 6 and he did really well behavior wise and so have been doing it ever since. And there is plenty to read - not text books necessarily but books. We have been working through Max Tegmark's new book. Basically we accepted that he "could" go to college if we pushed him to move faster in math but didn't see the point of it particularly since he didn't have the dexterity to really do lab work. There are some cute iPad apps that simulate lab experiments also. My DS is not a builder per se, so lego robotics only interests him in terms of the coding. He did scratch and some other languages but also isn't totally immersed in minecraft or anything like that. So we support going wide. And DS tolerates science at school basically for the experiments which are grade appropriate. And he is also a good kid so doesn't really complain even though it's an utter waste of his time and will continue to be. Part of our problem is that he has an elementary science teacher who is a gifted elem Ed teacher. He gets the science teacher, trained to be a science teacher next year!! He also works with a science mentor, an older student, basically to encourage tolerance for the sad state of classroom science, they did all sorts of things from videos to experiment to just talking about science.

Not sure if any of this helps, more of a btdt.

DeHe

polarbear: "but my first thought when I read your OP was - you must not be a scientist"

LOL! For sure, I am not a scientist! If there were such a thing as an anti-scientist, I would be it. Although I do understand the scientific method and what makes a good research study (really I do!), by no means is science my strength. Although my parents were both engineers, my siblings are engineers and actually 2 grandparents were engineers. That whole gene skipped me or was never expressed.

"it sounds like your thoughts were headed in the direction many folks' thoughts default to for kids who are good at science: accelerate in math, and look to Lego League"

The math acceleration is driven completely by DS. If he could have things his way, he would accelerate everything as fast as he can. He is one of those "rage to learn" kids that many of us have. If knowledge and analysis could be served to him intravenously, he would sign up for it. To give an example, at public school he was learning a foreign language one day a week. DS asked if he could go 5 days a week and just join the upper classes and "pick it up" while he was there. This is not even a strength of his! He just wants to master this particular foreign language because he wants to do it. It's interesting to him.

DS really is like his dad. I've mentioned before on here that DH was accelerated 4 years when he was in school and had his Ph.D. in a STEM field by 22. At around the same time, DH actually almost qualified for an Olympic team (one of those not-really-followed sports). Then he took up another language - just for the heck of it - and became fluent in no time. Ten years after shooting to the top of his field and teaching at one of those fancy universities, DH went back for another doctorate - just because he was "really interested" in this other topic. (The next doctoral degree is in a non STEM field.) DH and DS have the same "rage to learn". They are both people who gobble up life and learning and see no point in learning something unless you can really master it. (If any of you have spouses like this, it is both exciting and exhausting beyond belief sometimes.)

Anyway, the first Lego league was actually a suggestion that I got here. I didn't really know anything about it until I got here. My philosophy with regard to educating my children is definitely to let them lead the way. So, right now DS has an extreme passion to create and build. I'm just trying to find and facilitate things for him to meet his needs. (And I am also open to more suggestions as to how to do this!)

Thanks polarbear for your input! It is much appreciated.

And I will add, with regard to my DH, it is rather annoying to be married to someone who can master seemingly any topic in no time. When I met DH, I was working hard at my 2nd master's degree (I was also changing careers.) There I was chugging along, working hard and doing well. DH shows up working on his second doctorate, not breaking a sweat too much, training for a marathon, working on becoming a Go master, taking cooking classes in his spare time and writing a short story in a foreign language for fun. He is good at everything. He's one of those people.

But I do love him. :-)

I'm getting off topic.

Oh--I had another idea. I totally understand what you mean about your DS and DH, by the way. DD is very much like your DH, it sounds... and our entire household operates a lot like that, in fact. We all do a million things, most of them frighteningly well with impossibly short learning curves.

Anyway-- my idea is to hunt down some "science fair experiments for pennies" books. I have a few of these that I picked up on clearance tables over the years. Now, the reason that I love them is that they tend to be aimed squarely at the demographic/needs of MG kids in grades 2-7, thereabouts. The dexterity expectations and safety level are about right, mostly it's household items (nothing special or arcane, mostly), and a LOT of it actually works the way it is supposed to.

But what is even BETTER is that there are usually blurbs explaining the "why" of it briefly, but then where the real action is for PG elementary kids is in figuring out how to set it up to TEST the "explanation" as a hypothesis... and how to tweak the set-up on those that do not work as advertised/instructed.

We've gotten a LOT of mileage out of those books.

DH bought DS an arduino starter kit for his 8th birthday a couple weeks ago. We've had a revolving door of visitors since then so he hasn't been able to start and I don't know much about it since it was DH's idea but perhaps it might be of interest. DS is beyond excited to get started with it. He is very math/science focused as well and has an insatiable thirst. He lives and dreams about designing robots....

http://www.arduino.cc/

I also recently came across a local Maker Junior group that we're going to try to check out soon. They have a few groups in various cities so maybe there is something close to you -
http://makerjunior.com/


Now off to search for some science fair experiments for pennies books - sounds awesome!

Ah! I wonder if this is the case with this particular teacher that started my post here. I wonder if the teacher doesn't realize exactly where DS is at with regard to his math level.

[quote=arlen1}

(If you are interested, I can mention a few 'gentle introduction' computer science books too.) [/quote]

Yes, I would love the suggestions!

We are using EPGY. He is fine with it. He complains that it is too slow and repetitive (which is why we went ahead and had him test out of 6th grade math - pre algebra is more tolerable to him).

Not sure what to do about algebra yet. He really would like a class - either online or in person. I looked at AOPS and the times of the classes are all awful for him. He does attend the regular and "fun" classes at EPGY and loves them. I wasn't thinking that we would stick with EPGY for algebra, but maybe we will.

Or maybe we will just take a break for 6 months and think about it later!

This is very helpful to me. Thank you! Since I figured out last year that there is no clearly defined worn path for kids like my DS, I am ALWAYS open to others' experiences and trying them out for my kids, if I think it might work.

I will try this out too. Though we have done some experiments, we haven't done what you have suggested regarding testing the "explanation". Fortunately I have a superb used bookstore near me. Thanks so much HK!

Such great responses and support here. Thanks so much to everyone who has responded and please keep the responses coming. I so wish I could invite many of you over and we could chat in real life. Though I live in a great place, in some ways it can be lonely with regard to dealing with issues around raising children who are like ours.

If I happen to see my son's teacher again, I will follow up with him to get some clarification about his statements. I won't go out of my way though.

We have been soooo lucky with this camp. Though the bar is relatively low to be admitted, 3 out of the 4 teachers that my son has had at this camp have been great. They recognize his passions and his gifts and work with him accordingly. They not only accept him for who he is but they encourage him to grow. This is probably the most important part of the experience for him. It's really the first place where he has had grown ups (aside from his parents and preschool teachers) who are appropriately positive with him and do what they can to meet his needs. I think we may get one more year out of this camp.

I meant to say something about the Lego Robotics group. The first time my DS tried a Lego Robotics camp at 11, it didn't click for him. He was on the older end of the group who attended and even though the material was really appropriate for him and I thought he would love it. It was a new program in my area and they were having a hard time attracting preteens. It's been a few years and now my DS has joined the H.S. Lego Robotics team. Not sure how he is doing with it but he seems to enjoy it.

We also tried a university based gifted camp one summer where my son took a Physics and Chemistry class. He really enjoyed it and although the students did get to take class in an actual LAB, they weren't really allowed to do much because of legal reasons.

My DH is also one of those who can master seemingly any topic in no time. It makes for his relationship with my DS15 a bit rough because he expects him to be like that as well and this strains their relationship.

Also for those looking to move beyond snap circuits. DS and Grandpa are working through spark fun inventors kit. It's not totally maker type stuff, a little more structure I think. DS 8 loves it because it's "real" electronics. Snap circuits is apparently now too jr for him the catch with it, is that it is real and so can be frustrating if you miss a pin or something. So an awesome lesson in persistence and checking your work, like finding the errors in coding. Unfortunately, sometimes this means DS wanders away while Grandpa searches for the error!!

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Some suggestions that help for a STEM kid are: a Lego Mindstorm set with some pointers on how to program it, assembling a quadcopter (with adult help), a telescope and a microscope.

Agree with what HowlerKarma has been saying. Take a DEEP breath and tell yourself it's one day at a time. I wouldn't try to look to far ahead, imo. FYI - my grandfather and uncle and one male cousin (all on my mother's side) were the science/math/engineering type. I am not and neither is my dh.

I've got a 2e/pg ds8 who's doing some MOOC-like courses online for free. We used a college pre-algebra and algebra book I picked up for free in the fall. I try to find things for free or less than $10 that ds will like or what sticks. There's a lot of courses online for free which may or may not work. It's somewhat trial and error.

Some kids like AoPS, Khan, Thinkwell, etc. Others do not.

We met a math professor at the local state college in the fall when ds was rapidly accelerating through algebra and I went into panic. Remember, I'm not a mathy. She let us borrow some books but said that it was quite likely ds would be bored in the classes there or frustrated by the pace and type of students there. Oy. Yet I understood what she was saying and appreciated it and her honesty.

So ds is doing online stuff at the moment, but yes (gasp) might be sitting in a physical college class soon. I try not to think of that one too much.