Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy parenting an outlier - moment of panic

I had my parent teacher conferences with DS7's teachers at his summer camp. It is a camp with "gifted" in the title. We have had a great experience with this camp last year and this year. This year, they easily accelerated him and there have been zero issues.

At today's conference, one of his teacher's stated that he has never seen a kid like DS. In the accelerated subject, DS is apparently very patient with his classmates, but DS is "Well beyond" them in ability and drive. The teacher told me that "no one" has drive and persistence like DS. He went on to tell me what kind of education he thinks DS needs. He suggested that DS should be working with a mentor at the college level (in DS's areas of strength - engineering and science).

OK, so the past few weeks, I've been planning on putting DS in algebra in the fall (probably around october, november) and had kind of thought I could wrangle something together for science at home. This teacher thinks that DS can and should be working at the college level. So - a moment of panic for me! I really do not think that DS (who will be 8 soon) should be attending a live college class. But he clearly needs more than what I was thinking of at home. I didn't think that I needed to start looking for a mentor now. Thoughts from anyone on how to meet this need? (Some of the panic comes from the knowledge that I can't just throw some books at DS to meet this need in science/engineering. He needs a lab or workshop, I guess?)

ETA: we will be doing first lego league this fall. But I am new to that club, and don't know if this is an appropriate way to meet DS's needs.

Maybe you should treat the advice as one person's opinion. Also were they literally suggesting college level classes, or were they just saying seek advice from a college faculty member. In an earlier thread a few months ago you said your DS7 was in 5th grade math.
http://giftedissues.davidsongifted...._get_my_son_into_acceler.html#Post186434
It seems he should do a course sequence up to calculus (and add some discrete math) before trying college math or science classes.

If you're homeschooling a highly mathy kid, AoPS is the way to go.

I have no idea what to do for science and would love to hear suggestions.

Actually, you can, at least in computer programming.

AOPS used to use
1) 'Python Programming for the Absolute Beginner' by Michael Dawson
and now uses (a somewhat modified version of)
2) 'Think Python: How to Think Like a Computer Scientist' by Allen B. Downey (in print, or free online at http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/). I recommend both books.

Installing python would take just a few minutes.

(If you are interested, I can mention a few 'gentle introduction' computer science books too.)

This was from DS's engineering teacher. The teacher teaches engineering classes in a public magnet high school. The teacher felt that DS was beyond what he teaches in his HS engineering classes. So, he just thought that if DS were in his class, he wouldn't have much to offer. He says that DS's ideas are extremely sophisticated and that DS has an innate understanding of various laws of physics/chemistry. So, for example, they are working as a class, on building something. DS takes their simple project and brings it way beyond what they are doing in class. The teacher felt it would be great if DS had a place to actually develop his ideas and create them.

As for math, DS finished 5th grade math in June, placed out of 6th grade math and is working on pre algebra online now.

In my mind, what would be optimal would be DS visiting my father's garage with his amazing collection of hand tools, robots and various devices. But my father is no longer around and the tools are long gone (and not like I could even work with them if I had them).

I will say, that at a cocktail party once, I briefly mentioned one of DS's ideas to a patent attorney. (I know that rule #1 of talking to patent attorneys is to not tell them about your/your mother's/your friend's great idea). This guy asked me what DS was working on lately, and so I shared it with him. (He is a friend of the family.) He emailed me a few days later and said he thought DS's idea was patentable. (It was a rather simple thing that DS thought of - an easy device to make babies more comfortable.) I never pursued it of course because it costs like, thousands of dollars to get a patent. And really, who cares? But I was just trying to illustrate that it's the creating and building that DS needs to do to fulfill his great need. He's got some good ideas!

Here is a great book to start with electronic circuits: 'Electronic Circuits for the Evil Genius 2/E' by Dave Cutcher.

It starts from the basics. No soldering required. The parts are cheap.

A physics textbook would be a helpful companion, to use as needed. E. g., Halliday physics was recommended by Bostonian earlier. Try to get the 5 volume edition - much easier to use (so that electricity would be in 1 volume).

Okay-- I'm going to recommend that you take a BIG deep breath, remind yourself that your child is the same person that you've been parenting all this time (that is, YOU know him much better than any teacher or camp counselor possibly could)-- and then, for lack of a better way of phrasing this...

consider the SOURCE of that statement carefully, and take into account this person's perspective. Along the lines posted by 22B already-- maybe this person was saying "I certainly don't know what to do with this child," and saving his/her own professional dignity by asserting that only a "college level" would suit (that is, completely understandable why s/he wouldn't be able to help you).

Recall firstly that MOST of the children that this person encounters are not gifted. They are ideally bright, maybe slightly TigerParented kids... and depending upon where you live, maybe a LOT TigerParented.

So in the first place, Gifted Children may be outside of the norm for this person's experience. Okay, triple that when you're discussing a child who is HG+-- because they are that much rarer. Only people with considerable experience will have encountered a child like this. That's to be expected.

When a THIRTY year educator in gifted ed tells you "I've never seen anything like it!" that is a very different statement from a college Ed major saying it, if you see what I mean. Camp teachers run the gamut, there-- so again, consider WHO made this statement to you. What context are they seeing your child in?

It's ALSO a very different thing when a teacher who has a teaching masters in a subject says this, versus someone with an early childhood endorsement, versus a PhD in the subject itself.

Often what teachers mean with statements like this is "beyond what I can offer." But what they may NOT be pointing out is that "what I can offer" isn't very high level to start with. Most teachers who work with kids in grades 4-12 can't themselves manage more than a sophomore college level challenge in the subject matter at hand-- some of them considerably less than that. I say that as someone who has seen a LOT of future high school chemistry teachers as "grad" students; most of them have a FAR weaker grasp on the subject than any of the regular Chem majors. So a child who has even a "late secondary" level need in the subject is going to seem pretty scary/freaky to such people, and probably make them feel inadequate to the task.

In short-- before you panic, consider that it is really unlikely that you need to completely retool everything that you've been doing for your child. Even among the kids in this community, TRULY being college-ready at your DS' age would be unusual. Now, INTEREST is another matter, of course, than true "readiness."

He almost certainly has needs beyond what 99% of his agemates do, and likely beyond what any "GT" camp aimed at regular gifted (and more likely, aimed at bright, high SES) kids is going to offer.

Some suggestions for activities where he can explore some of those interests--

* science museums-- check online and ask around for a good one near you-- think Exploratorium-like, hands-on places that offer workshops and lab classes.

* local university-- see if they have science programs for early secondary students. Many do-- but make sure that they aren't just fluff, first. There is "outreach" intended to maintain INTEREST in average-and-bright children, and then there is the hard core stuff that "average" students can't manage-- go after the latter, not the former.

* LEGO robotics.

I would take the advice with a grain of salt. What is the most advanced math course at your HS? Calc BC, Linear Algebra, Multivariable Calc? Your kid is not there yet. To do "real" physics, you need calc. And most college courses labeled "College Algebra" are for the kids that didn't get math in HS. You don't want him in that class.

Continue to encourage him and continue to give him opportunities - but don't send him to a college class for a few years.

(Crossed posts with you)

Oh-- and be prepared to argue to accelerate even with those ideas. It sounds as though your DS would really love some of the creativity involved in LEGO robotics in particular. But being HG+, he'll need to be with those older kids in order to be challenged. DD found that about a 2-3Y acceleration put her into the sweet spot with programming and robotics work at your DS' age and just past it (she's PG, but not especially so in STEM in particular).

I have to agree that without having even had algebra or geometry yet... um-- your DS isn't prepared even for intro courses in college science subjects-- and not by a very wide margin, truthfully. "Intuitive" understanding of classical mechanics is... again, trying to be diplomatic here and likely failing (apologies) often OVER-RATED by engineers, in my experience. Yes, this is good-- certainly better than a lack of such intuition-- but it doesn't substitute for a theoretical understanding. This is a divide that is commonly termed "book smart" versus "good with one's hands." Kids who are profoundly good at the latter are still going to be challenged significantly by the former, (and vice versa, which in general people seem to accept much more readily).

Feeding his interest and enthusiasm, and letting him explore his creativity, though-- that's going to be a challenge, particularly if your own interests/expertise isn't in STEM. But this is a challenge in a GOOD way, not in a scary way.

What are you using for pre-algebra?

I really don't know what to advise for engineering and science. You are describing a very advanced level for physical science. But he still needs to bring his mathematics up to that level.

ETA What are you planning to use for Algebra(1?)?

You could try to find a local hackerspace. The hacker mentality is about doing and learning; the folks I know are very open to anyone of whatever age (given certain safety caveats.) Many of them even without kids volunteer for local FIRST teams and such.

Here's a locator:
http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/List_of_Hacker_Spaces