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    aeh Offline
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    Originally Posted by madeinuk
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    Reading isn't a school subject after age 8 at school - it is assumed that all children can read by then.......(By the way, aeh, if there's really no maths in elementary school other than the four operations, you need better elementary schools!)

    Yes!

    ColinsMum,

    Unless you have seen it with your own eyes it is impossible to believe just how drastically the brain tumour of Political Correctness has impacted education in the USA.

    Back in the UK in the early 70s the 3 Rs were assumed to have been grasped by 8 with reading (along with using a dictionary), arithmetic and cursive handwriting mastered. Alas! Here on Planet USA a school producing similar results that was not a Homeschool would be a rare bird indeed.

    Yup. I was only speaking half facetiously. Elementary math is pretty pathetic in the USA. Which is one of the many reasons why we homeschool. Even if you add in the data analysis that is the last unit of each year (read, the unit that gets omitted if the teacher/class didn't move quickly enough through the curriculum), the spiraling nature of most math curricula means there are about 15 seconds (not an empirically validated number, in case you're wondering!) of novelty for each unit each year, if you've actually mastered the prior concepts. The "new" material each year really is usually the same four operations, only now with one more place value. And then a few units of odds and ends, like very, very elementary geometry (which at this level is mostly definitions/names of shapes), units of measurement (which children who have exposure to real-life measurement, such as in the kitchen or the shop, ought to have some idea of), money (which is, of course, exactly the same as arithmetic to two decimal places, but is usually taught as a separate unit), and telling time on an analog clock (which Common Core expects to take four years to learn (k-3)).

    I probably do oversimplify a little bit, but when you consider that fractions are just division, and decimals are just fractions, and percents just decimals...



    ...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...
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    Originally Posted by aquinas
    Maybe instead of saying "what level has your child achieved?", a different way to ask the question is "what is the minimum level of skills you feel, say, 90% certain he has mastered in each area?"

    I agree. Makes much more sense than sticking with arbitrary grade levels.

    Originally Posted by aquinas
    It makes perfect sense that there will be confidence intervals around these estimates; probably wide ones for some domains. Learning is a fluid process of skills acquisition that doesn't conform to discrete edu-speak boxes.

    Part of the reason I'm asking this question the way I am, and at this time, is because I'm hoping to homeschool DS for kindergarten and subsequently open an HG+ micro school.

    Wonderful! That is an ambitious but worthwhile endeavor. Best to you.


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    Yes, sounds fantastic -- and just what I'd love to see develop near us!

    As others have mentioned and you are obviously aware, for us it is the pace of learning that makes our DC difficult to "fit" into a grade. I would love to have a multi-age HG+ peer group for learning/socializing/creative play. There's more I would say about our experiences of grade acceleration, but it seems you are most interested in info on academic development.

    FWIW, here are broad strokes for our oldest, DS7:

    Age 3: k math and 1st reading, no real interest in fine motor
    Age 4: 3rd grade reading, 1st math, still not much writing

    Age 5: 7th grade reading, 3-4 math (although not fast with math facts until 6), 1st writing, (with precise spelling.) Not sure about science/history grade level, but was devouring jr. high nonfiction science and history books.

    Age 6: 9th gr reading/comp/vocab, 5-6 math (being a perfectionist, he mastered math facts because of weekly timed tests). Finally started writing and took off on that. School placed him at 6th grade writing, but I'd say 5th, for no real reason.

    Age 7: not yet halfway through...

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    aquinas Offline OP
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    Originally Posted by mama2three
    Yes, sounds fantastic -- and just what I'd love to see develop near us!

    As others have mentioned and you are obviously aware, for us it is the pace of learning that makes our DC difficult to "fit" into a grade. I would love to have a multi-age HG+ peer group for learning/socializing/creative play. There's more I would say about our experiences of grade acceleration, but it seems you are most interested in info on academic development.

    FWIW, here broad strokes for our oldest, DS7:

    Age 3: k math and 1st reading, no real interest in fine motor
    Age 4: 3rd grade reading, 1st math, still not much writing

    Age 5: 7th grade reading, 3-4 math (although not fast with math facts until 6), 1st writing, (with precise spelling.) Not sure about science/history grade level, but was devouring jr. high nonfiction science and history books.

    Age 6: 9th gr reading/comp/vocab, 5-6 math (being a perfectionist, he mastered math facts because of weekly timed tests). Finally started writing and took off on that. School placed him at 6th grade writing, but I'd say 5th, for no real reason.

    Age 7: not yet halfway through...

    I'd be delighted to hear more broadly about your experience with acceleration! It's all germane to designing the school. Thanks for chiming in, mama2three. smile


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    Okay, relevant to your fact-finding mission, Aquinas, is this--

    it is common now to "bundle" some subjects, which makes acceleration all but impossible in those areas if there is a missing support skill.

    Consider "writing across the curriculum" and what that means for a child like mine, who had the writing skills of a 6yo agemate and the reading and analysis skills of a high schooler, and the interests of one, too, at least in some subjects.

    It was interesting to me when I ran across some of our video from when she was 5-7yo and doing poetry recitations, delivering oral presentations, etc. I had forgotten how LITTLE she was at the time. It's very sweet to watch her lisp a little because of her missing front teeth, as she's discussing the causes of Shay's Rebellion, how a particular scientific invention works, etc.

    It's stunning to watch her, and all the more so because I recall quite clearly that the work product that she is delivering there is way below her readiness and proximal zone.


    If she had been permitted to learn science, literature, and social studies at the level she was READY for, rather than at the level she was ready to write at, things would have been far, far better for her.

    Other kids, it's the reading level that is the weak link.


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    There is no gifted program at all in our district. So, the class moves fairly slowly. DS needs something radically different. (Mostly, I'm probably saying what others have said on this thread or elsewhere, but I'll continue.) There just is no grade where DS fits.

    In a system, such as our district, which likes to subject accelerate kids into higher grade level classes that are working at an average pace, DS's pace of learning means that he will always be bored. It seems like we spend time advocating so that the school sees that he needs something harder, then they evaluate him, come up with a program, and by the time it is implemented he has moved to a new place. So, something more fluid and responsive would certainly be wonderful.

    To elaborate we knew DS had mastered the academic goals of K before he began, but the district would not consider a skip and we felt it would still be "fun" for him. Turns out they just really had no idea where DS was at. The most instruction he got that year was the second semester when there was a student teacher. His teacher gave him 5 min a day, presenting grade 3 and 4 material. They both loved it. He could master it, make inferences, apply it to new situations and then she would figure out where they could go the next day. She was also fantastic at letting him run when he wanted to run. ( i.e. If he wanted to change a class assignment to make it more interesting/difficult, she was all for it.)

    Lots of planning and a skip for this past year, which then placed him in a grade where he was still an academic outlier. He could have gone up another grade or two up for harder work in math, which would have been presented at a typical pace, or work by himself in his class. We chose the latter, but it was neither adequate nor ideal.

    Having volunteered in the classroom both years, it was easy to see the vast range of ability within DS's classes and I was struck by the amount of time many kids need to learn concepts DS never had to learn, but just intuited from reading, conversations, etc..

    As we plan for next year, there are no ready solutions, but we are choosing a school with smaller classes where they have had a EG or PG student recently and seem to be more familiar with potential needs/ideas for accommodations.

    Best wishes on your project!

    Last edited by mama2three; 07/02/14 10:37 PM. Reason: Clarity
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    In response to a question about how my DS's school manages to be flexible enough that we don't need to use acceleration:

    It's a prep school, in the British not the American sense: preparing pupils for senior schools they go on to at 13. One of the things that attracted us to the school in the first place was that they have a very free-flowing, play-based set up in the pre-prep (up to the age of 8ish) and then a much more academic approach in the upper school (up to 13). Everywhere else we looked at had one or the other!

    It's very well resourced, and has small classes (max 16) and the impression one gets is that teachers are not stressed out the way teachers often seem to be. Maybe they have more preparation time than most teachers, because there's games every afternoon and although many staff do help teach games, they don't do it every day? Whatever the reason, the staff seem to relish differentiating rather than regarding it as a chore.

    One thing that has struck me forcefully as DS goes into the upper years of the school is: incentives are aligned. The school is not academically selective at intake, but its reputation rests on getting very competitive scholarships at output. And those scholarships often require the kind of high-level thinking that HG+ children are so often not encouraged to do (see e.g. http://www.etoncollege.com/KSpapers.aspx ). So at this school, it isn't just the right thing to do to consistently stretch DS: it's concretely in the school's interests to do so. My guess is that this helps across the board: no teacher feels that they're indulging one individual in a way they shouldn't be, when they spend time helping him get to the next level.


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