Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Could He Be 2E?

I never thought my son might be 2E but now I am wondering. Just looking to see if anyone had an insight on this.

My seven year old has recently started adding sounds into his words. Most often it's an "uh" type noise to the end of a word. He will do this anywhere from one word per few sentences to multiple words per sentence. It makes him more difficult to understand.

This concerns me. He has always had vocabulary well beyond his years (still does) and since age 2.5 could carry on adult-level conversations and be understood perfectly.

He does it speaking and reading out loud though more when speaking. He also has transient tics than come and go, like clearing his throat and sniffing.

He also has a hard time listening/paying attention to us and/or forgets immediately what we tell him to do if it's something simple (like "put on your shoes", as opposed to explaining a hard concept- which he never forgets). An acquaintance of my DH's played my son at chess last night and afterwards asked DH if my son had Aspergers. I had never considered such a thing. Any insight??

Background on him:

-has intense LONG attention span for things that interest him and gets offended if interrupted
-strong sense of "fairness" or justice
-highly logical
-reading since age 2, reads on about 9th grade level
-4 years ahead in math
-was #3 chess player in state for his age this past year

If you're observing verbal and motor tics, you might look into Tourette's and other tic disorders (http://www.tsa-usa.org/). You'll need a neurologist for this.

Do the tics increase/decrease depending on his emotional state/anxiety? Does he seem anxious at all in general? Has he always had difficulty paying attention to mundane directions or tasks? How is his joint attention (attending to something that someone else is attending to at the same time, usually for the purpose of common understanding of something)? Does he have difficulties with "reading" social situations, or social awkwardness? How is he with changes to routine? Does he have rigidity or special rituals?

1. I have not noticed the vocal tic (if thats what it is??) increasing. The throat clearing/sniffing seems to occur more when reading and seems to be linked to allergy season, maybe? Some days he does it almost every few seconds.

2. He is not anxious

3. Yes, he defiantly has issues with attention on mundane or uninteresting tasks. With LOTS of attention for interesting tasks, including *most* schoolwork (homeschool). He can focus on something someone else is focused on.

4. Does not read social situations that well

Sounds like a profoundly / highly gifted child 'normal' description for them. So, healthy, great, bright, brilliant, able to do wonderful work - the type that will have choices of academic / merit based scholarships.

Not an expert in Asperger's so in layperson terms, isn't that when they are totally missing a filter / social cues so you might sense it if a child says something that stops you in your tracks, some sort of red flag, that their comment was a sign of not understanding human emotion - if a child made a comment that was meant to be a joke but it stops the adult in their tracks (bone-chilling), but we are not experts on Asperger's. I suspect, especially nowadays, there is screening for Asperger's, whether people are aware or not. I think most adults could tell. So, it doesn't sound like Asperger's to our family. Hope it helps.

So it doesn't sound like it's a true vocal tic. If you think it's related to allergies, that's easy enough to check out at the pediatricians. (Or even, to some extent, just with OTC antihistamines.) You are not reporting anxiety or rigidity, and he has joint attention. That sounds less ASD to me.

Another possibility WRT the "uh" fillers is that he's reached a point in his cognitive development where he's much more aware of the amount of ambiguity in the world, and the difficulty of answering questions comprehensively and with absolute certainty. My EG/PG sibling went through a stage around age 8 (if I recall correctly) where the immediate answer to every question was "I don't know". So much so that we took to using that as a nickname. This from a person who had previously read the daily newspaper cover-to-cover to unwind after a hard day at kindergarten, and read from "A" to "R" (or thereabouts) in the Encyclopedia Brittanica for amusement. In your son's case, he may be using the filler syllables to slow down his response so he can have additional time to formulate a more precisely accurate response, or because he is trying to reconcile what he knows with the infinite amount there is to know.

Reading social situations is the one indicator you mention that is more associated with ASD, but you also have to consider what kind of interpersonal interactions he has experienced on a regular basis. If much of his time is spent with adults, 1) one must be careful to compare his social perception skills with those of an age peer, and not inadvertently hold adult-ish expectations for him; 2) he may not be receiving the same kind of feedback from adults that he would from age-peers, and consequently may not be having the same kind of social learning experiences. Most adults instinctively scaffold for children, which means there are fewer opportunities to compare strategies for their effectiveness, and thus to learn which ones to apply in which situations, with which persons.

I would observe his social reciprocity with those with whom he feels he is on a similar level, and not focus too much on the "little professor"-type conversation that often makes people think of Asperger's. Also, his self-awareness, especially in the social and emotional domains. One of the core deficits often referenced with regard to ASD is a poor "theory of mind"--being able to see from multiple perspectives, particularly to make reasonable estimates of what is going on (invisibly) inside people's heads. If we take as our hypothesis that his poor reading of social situations is a function of his learning experiences, rather than of an essential deficit in theory of mind, then we would expect that he would exhibit more developmentally-appropriate self-perception/self-awareness/insight than other-awareness (due to lack of experience).

Keeping in mind that he is only seven years old, how is his ability to reflect on his own thoughts, feelings, perceptions, and motivations?

I often get asked if my son is Aspergers. As of this week, I now have 4 different psychologists who all agree that my son is not autistic although he does shares some of the characteristics. We are in the middle of a full neuropyc eval and partly just to rule it out. One of the questions on the assessment asks if there is anything else that could cause the symptoms. There are lots of other possibilities, including ADHD (inattentive), Tourette's, language disorders, other LD's or just simply profoundly/high gifted. It's is not at all unusual for gifted kids to have inattention problems with uninteresting tasks and not have any of the above issues.

As for your son, I can't really tell from your post. Starting with the pediatrician and ruling out a physical reasons for the vocal tik as aeh suggests is probably a good start. These are simple things one doesn't want to overlook. When my allergies bother me it can manifest mostly with my constantly wanting to clear my throat. Allergies could also affect his hearing and that could affect attention.

Have you tried asking him? Does he know what he sounds like and does he have an explanation?

Ugh, I hate this. I get asked all the time if my DD10 has Asperger Syndrome (she doesn't, per multiple psychologists and a neuropsych). The most annoying is the Girl Scout volunteer I work with, to whom I cannot even mention DD any more because she has decided that DD must have Aspergers, and if I bring her up, the volunteer badgers me to get her diagnosed and treated. She has never even met DD!

I just cannot believe there are so many rude people out there. It'd never even occur to me to ask or suggest to anyone if their child has a particular condition.

One of my DD's toddler classmates was a classic case (early reading & spelling but read with completely flat tone and showed no emotions, no eye contact with anyone including with mom, showed no interest in peers or adults, had a very peculiar gait and body language, etc, etc) but I felt so guilty even thinking this and tried everything in my power to relate to this child as she is rather than a (possible) label.

I only have a suggestion for the tics. My son has had some tics on and off, some OCD,-type behavior. The tics were getting really noticeable and seemed completely involuntarily. I read somewhere magnesium helps with tics and such so I started giving him Epsom salt baths (for the magnesium). Within a week of starting the baths, the tics stopped completely. Completely. I have him take an Epsom salt bath now at three times weekly (usually more like 4 or 5) (I even brought it with us on vacation). I put at least two full cups in his bath each time and I have him soak for no less than 15 minutes each time. Really worked for us. Tics have not come back at all. Maybe try that to help with the tics at least!

One of DS's teachers asked it after the first day of school, and I was taken a back. I can see how she might see that, but it's not something to just throw out there casually. I really think it's the new "fad" diagnosis...some people will see it everywhere they look without really understanding it or what it entails. After that it was clear to her that he doesn't have Aspergers or ASD of any kind and she didn't bring it up again. One of my sister-in-laws who is a special ed teacher brought it up around the campfire at a family reunion...she wasn't talking about DS but one of the brother-in-laws. My mother-in-law mentioned how hard it was to get him school services (like a decent IEP) way back when in grade school, and my sister-in-law said "mabye if you had had him diagnosed with Aspergers it would have been easier..." Ummm....ok...and you're a psychologist, since when? It just annoyed me, and it annoyed his wife. I think this particular brother-in-law has some quirks, as do many males in the family (and he has a very high IQ which was documented back in grade school), but he's not autistic in any way.