Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion "Social necessities" beneficial or detrimental?

My son is 27 months old and showed signs of exceptional learning abilities at a very young age. His fascination with letters and numbers really took off around 6 months. At the local pool he preferred to be taken to the depth markers as opposed to splashing in the water; by summers end he was obsessed, "3 f t 6 i n" he'd repeat over and over. Fast forward to today and his abilities are separating him from his peers faster than ever. He can count to 100, either by 1's, 5's or 10's. He can also count by 2's & 3's. He can perform simple math (addition) and loves to count in and learn words in multiple languages (English, French, Spanish, etc). He can read 200+ words and orally spell at least 100 and phonetically sounds out words like mm, mm, an, man! He memorizes entire books with ease. He recently learned that the past can be referenced by the word "remember" and loves to recall events, people, etc and enthusiastically ask "Remember?!?". He has mastered even the most complex shapes (ellipse, crescent, sphere, cones).

If you ask him a question more than once, he responds with a smart aleck tone; for example: if you ask him what color a bee is, he will reply "yellow and black" if you ask him again within a short time frame, he will give you a look and slyly says "striped".
He sees letters and shapes wherever we go, his bacon was bitten into a lower case "b", the garden hose in the shape of an 8. Most recently, I hear him in his room quizzing himself "what letter does giraffe start with" "what shape is this" as he has an insatiable appetite to learn non stop!�

He enjoys his peers, but gets frustrated and confused by them. He doesn't understand "fits" or loud cries and is very sensitive to harsh/mean tones. One playdate ended abruptly when his friend was screaming (as normal 2 year olds do) and I found my son had retreated under a chair with a book in a quiet dark room.

After tons of searching, we are now enrolled in a curriculum based day school. Because he has not socially experienced this environment before, he was placed in the catch all class for his age group. On day 2, his teacher commented that he was "wicked smart" and had met with the age 4-5 preschool teachers and put together a packet of homework. This includes reading simple sentences "I see the fish", "here is a lion". He must also write 3 letter words "bug, rug, tug", he can write letters and numbers, and he is completing his homework quite easily.

On day 4, I was frustrated by the amount of stress my son was experiencing with other children crying non stop, for hours, because of their separation anxiety. My son will say "teacher, fun" but is apprehensive to walk into the class because of the incessant crying. After only 4 days, my little guy is already showing signs of regression (i.e. Reading his baby sisters books). The teachers have separated those children into another room because of the disruption and stress.

My concern is growing, but I try to tell myself that this is good for him and it has to happen. I am appreciative that his teachers recognize his academic potential, but frustrated by this "necessary social" step. My husband and I are ecstatic to work on homework with him, but at the same time we found that in class they are identifying the letter A and number 1. I wonder if this is a positive or negative experience for him?
I also understand that there are "social necessities" and hope we can migrate to a higher class once we "do the time" but how beneficial or detrimental will this be in the interim?

Thank you!

Welcome! You raise some tricky issues, but in the right place.

In my view, developing social skills is absolutely crucial, but if you don't need the nursery for childcare (or perhaps even if you do) there may be easier settings for your son to develop the skills in. Maybe fewer, mixed age children and not all day?

It bothers me that you are "ecstatic" to work on homework with him, tbh. I think at this age it's really important that learning be self-directed: he needs to have a good sense of what he's interested in for himself. Of course it may be that right now there happens to be a good fit between the homework and what he wants to learn - I remember my DS's spelling obsession phase fondly - and maybe you're just reacting to that. But be careful. I'd say finding a purely play-based nursery is a far better idea than moving him to a higher class at 2. His learning won't slow down for lack of academic teaching.

That all sounds very bossy. You know your child, I don't, of course!

Welcome.

When DD was around that age, I never felt that she needed to attend a preschool. We did a lot of play dates and group activities and classes with other moms and toddlers. I though that was more than enough socialization but I was fortunate enough to have the option to stay home with DD.

When DD was approaching 3 and most of her friends were starting a full-time preschool, I didn't know what the right answer was for us but at the end, we went with a part-time preschool that had an open-door policy. That program wasn't a great fit but at least I learned that academic circle time wasn't going to work for DD.

I waited until she was over 3.5 years old then she started a part-time preschool without me hanging around as a parent volunteer. It is a multiage, nature-based, non-academic play school and their curriculum is centered around teaching social skills and building a sense of community among children. It was exactly what DD needed. She went from being a bookworm to a social butterfly. She even developed a crush on a boy!

We're on a summer break and most of her time and energy go to music these days so academics have taken a backseat but she seems to be sailing right along in reading and math as well. If I were to really assess her skills, they are probably all over the map and she most likely has gaps that need to be filled but I'm not all that concerned at the moment.

I do lean towards attachment parenting and unschooling so my approach might not work for your family but it works for DD and me. We're pretty happy. Her father, on the other hand, isn't too crazy about unschooling.

Speaking here as the parent of a 2E/autistic:

Lovely that your DS is excited about academic learning. Along with the reading/math skills he is so motivated to pick up, I'd want to make sure that he's learning to enjoy things the way other kids do. If his interests are restricted (which it sounds like they may be from your pool incident) he won't pick up play skills that are important for building thinking and social skills. He should be not only reading at the pool, but also learning to like the water. Not only counting toys, but learning to play with them and pretend. This isn't "kid stuff"-- it's a foundation for many other things.

The obsessive quizzing language is a concern for me. As a parent I'd make sure to be engaging him in two-way conversation that does not take the form of quizzing or tutoring. You don't want his main means of engaging other kids to be quizzing.

I think it would be fine to keep him home from day care/preschool another year if that's what you want to do, but I would definitely work on increasing exposure to other kids, as well as many different environments. Learning to be "OK with it" is a major life skill.

Many adults can't deal with a room full of crying two year olds and find it stressful. The goal of socialization is a long term goal and that environment wouldn't be representative of what your son would experience around older children. And it is not fun or useful for a bright kid to sit around hearing stuff repeated below their abilities.

Don't let society's "oughts" overcome your parental instincts.

Learning social skills as a toddler is extremely important for all children. It is possibly even more important for a highly gifted child who may prefer the company of adults, and therefore not get as much exposure to other children, because children do need to learn to "fit in" with their age peers as well.

I have to agree with the other posters who suggested a "play based" environment. It sounds as if your son is learning a lot at home right now, so he doesn't need an academic curriculum at this point. He is going to continue learning- he doesn't need "homework" at this age unless he wants to do it. We had workbooks available for my twins at that age, but I let them choose whether or not to do them. One of them always liked to play "school" and would do them, the other didn't really do them at all.

They liked riding toys, play-dough, puzzles, blocks, books, duplo legos and playing outside at 2. Playing with bubbles and sidewalk chalk was their absolute favorite thing to do. One academic thing they absolutely loved at that age was looking at flash cards (not being drilled). We had flash cards with numbers, animals, letters, words, colors, shapes, etc. They really enjoyed looking at them and would ask if they didn't know what was on it. Again, it was entirely self directed by them, except for those occasions where I would take the cards with me for them to look at in a waiting room or on a plane, but I only took them with me because the twins enjoyed looking at them and the cards were very portable. .

At age 2, I also took my twins to music classes, gymnastic/playgroup classes, joined a playgroup with children their age, went to story time at the library, and also went to children's activities at the zoo and museums. They also went to a play based mother's day out program/preschool. At three, they took soccer lessons, swimming lessons, gymnastics and still went to playgroup and preschool.

There is plenty of time for your son to learn academics, but there are certain social skills that are easiest to learn as a toddler.

You might look into your local Montessori schools. Some might group 2-6 year olds together depending on their enrollment.

I wish I had been able to find a preschool for my kids which was JUST about the social aspect and play-based, but also with an emphaisis on learning classroom skills like sitting down and listening (at least at around age 3.5-4...younger kids don't necessarily need to be able to do that), organizing their stuff like coats, backpacks, etc. They did do those things to some degree, as well as learn how to interact with other kids, and that was the main point of sending them. But there was way too much time wasted on boring academics like the alphabet, numbers, etc. For kids who already know this it just teaches them to hate school at a young age. My DS in particular started to act up and as soon as they got out the academic "stations" he would literally make a run for it. Unfortunately all of the preschools around here focus on academics like literacy...and it's way too easy. So my kids spent 3 years learning the alphabet. I didn't push for anyone to give advanced stuff at that age--I knew I would just end up looking like a pushy tiger parent because what kid needs to know how to add or subtract large numbers or read second grade level books at age 3-4? I knew that's what they would tell me. So we worked on those things at home, as far as my kids were interested (and DD was more interested than DS at that age). We suffered through the boring academics but it wasn't ideal. In terms of dealing with the immaturities of other kids...this is going to be an ongoing saga throughout the educational career, and at some point kids need to learn how to deal with it. Not necessarily at 27 months, but they should have some exposure and develop the skills to deal with it before heading off to kindergarten.

It sounds like it might be a good idea for you to look for some informal opportunities to socialize and put actual "school" on the back burner for now. Or else look for a school where he can interact with older kids and there is no emphasis on literacy/numbers. I don't think you will find one that will teach him at his level (although I could be wrong...who knows). A lot of kids don't do any preschool until they are 4, here, and they are fine in kindergarten.

We ran into a similar issue at preschool. "Socialization" sounds nice in theory. In practice DS ended up with little Mr. Poor Impulse Control smashing him over the head with a toy (although I am just a layperson this kind of interaction would seem to have little developmental utility).

A mixed age group might be helpful - our guy is much happier playing with kids 2 years older maybe b/c he can actually talk to them. I have no idea where he we end up intellectually - right now I just want him to have fun and play and not be miserable.

My DS2.7 has had the best success avoiding age-peers around 24 months, because their erratic behavior usually left him in tears. Imagine speaking clearly to someone and having them grab, shove, shout, etc. For sensory children, it's just best to avoid, and for a bright sensory child, it's a nightmare.

What has worked well for us, starting around 2, is to build up a set of verbal social skills to help DS fit in with older children, particularly verbal self-advocacy: making eye contact when speaking/listening, making introductions, asking questions to get to know other children, suggesting play ideas, etc. This practice coincided with winter for us, so we had a break from the park for several months. Now, he usually plays with 4-7 year olds at the park, often leading the activities because he's so passionate about some of his interests (cars, trucks, robots, aquatic creatures, the human body). He can represent his views and object if play becomes unfair. He still prefers to play with me because I can follow his thematic play better than the kids, and as a SAHM I play with him about 12 hours a day, but it's a good lesson for him to lead others and tolerate some polite conflict.

He also has an age-peer friend from music class who is probably gifted himself, and we arrange a play date or two every week at the park. DS' friend is a gentle, sweet boy, so they are learning positive play together. The key for finding that relationship was my vetting the parents/nannies of lots of children to find someone who shares my values. His nanny is now a personal friend of mine. I'm nursing DS, so the AP parents usually made enthusiastic remarks about my nursing, and then that sparked conversations.

One way that we initially bridged the gap between DS and older children was for DS, DH, and I to initiate games of tag, soccer, and hide-and-seek with the children at the park. Other children's parents by and large just sit on a bench with their iPhones, so there's never a shortage of kids hungry for some attention.

I'm a SAHM, and I think having the constant contact with my son has helped me model the behaviors I want to inculcate in him, and to deliver consistent, timely corrections when he veers off course. I think wherever possible gifted preschool age children should be with their parents, because the continuity of care, close relationships, and tenderness of interaction foster independence and security more than an environment where the teacher/caregiver's attention has to be split over 10 or more children.

I think the idea that socialization requires age peers is a fallacy--true socialization requires being able to move seamlessly with people of different ages and backgrounds. Interacting with socially adept adults is the best way to build those skills quickly, IMO and in my experience.

I tend to agree with you (recognizing that there are many families for whom this is not an option). The consistency is also exceptionally important with bright children, as they will, among other things, be more likely to a) find a way to split caregivers with different practices; b) lose respect for one or more adults in their system; c) feel stressed and insecure from having to negotiate multiple, contradictory sets of norms for behavior.

I endorse aquinas' post above. Age-peers are often detrimental in social development, not helpful, and that's particularly true in the t-stages (toddler and teen).

Toddlers are only just venturing out into the social space, and have no idea about norms, boundaries, etc. So if you place toddlers together, it becomes a group social experiment, based largely on ignorance, and develops in ways that can't be predicted (though you can bet on hitting being involved at some point). The ideal is that children come into the experiment having already been given a solid grounding in acceptable social behaviors, and the best source for that is the parents. And the best way for parents to teach that is through engaging in child-led play.

As aquinas has indicated, young children tend to gravitate towards playing adults, even strangers. I don't understand it, but I've experienced it many times. DD has acquired a good number of playmates at the park who initially expressed no interest in her, but tons in me.

I wanted to let this go, but for some reason, I just can't.

Women can have such a difficult time regarding family life: we're supposed to have children/not have children/not have too many children, breastfeed/not breastfeed, work/not work, and so on. There is no one right way of raising kids, and one of the mantras on this forum is that there is no single right approach with gifted kids. For example, not all of them have to be with their parents wherever possible to thrive.

I want to work, I like to work, and I have something to offer. That's okay. My kids loved daycare, and that's okay too. They thrived there. It was a warm, loving environment. My eldest loved preschool. That's okay, too.

My son went to a play based preschool/daycare. (I worked at the time.) There was NEVER any homework for any of the kids and very little emphasis was made on formal school work. Kids were never sat down to fill out worksheets, although they spend plenty of time drawing, coloring, using scissors. And those 6 months away from K, a few more skills we worked on to make sure they were K ready. I was very happy with what my son did there, he had a lot of choice of activity, there were other kids and lots of time to run around outside. My son could read at 3, and we primarily worked on this at home. At school they knew he could read, so they encouraged him to take books off the shelf to read to himself. All kids were encouraged to do this even if they were only looking at the pictures. The key to this place was the teachers. They are wonderful and have worked with the preschool kids for over 20 years.

To the original poster. Trust your instinct, if this is not going well it's probably not the right environment for your son. There are probably other options to help him get peers involvement. Or other preschools. Sometimes what looks the best to us from the outside doesn't end up being the right solution for our own children. Good Luck.

Like everything, your results may vary, but ODS had (PG by test results), for the most part, an excellent Montessori experience. He started going to an accredited center at age 18 months (half days to start, 3/4 days at age 4). It provided him with a nurturing, independence-supporting environment where there was nearly unlimited variety in the materials (wooden toys through mathematical learning tools) available to him. Given how quickly he runs through interests (master world maps, check, let's go on to something new), that was wonderful. :-)

There was a lot of focus on gentle support, being kind and respecting others. He learned a great deal, not just academically, which likely would have happened and was happening at home, but about friendship. The mixed age groups worked quite well for him (he is rather asynchronous, meaning at that time he needed silly friends as well as advanced ones). There was a bit of an unusual situation in his primary years, with four other boys who are almost certainly from moderately to perhaps highly gifted. They were supported in advanced through materials/content as quickly as they could.

I doubt that a more traditional preschool would have worked at all for him. That's likely what led us to Montessori, as the other schools just didn't seem likely to fit him.

Thank you all for taking the time to reply and provide a wealth of insight for me as a parent.

I would like to balance out my post a little bit as I was obviously too gung-ho to present my son's academic capabilities and failed to shed some light on him as an individual. My husband and I were fairly quick to have him tested at an Early Steps program to check for behavioral/learning disorders. These tests were done around 20 months and he did not fall under the scale for asperger syndrome/autism.

He loves his trucks, cars & trains. Enjoys singing songs (most recently "Im a Little Tea Pot" and "BINGO"), sidewalk chalk, coloring/painting, bubbles, play-doh, playing kick ball and t-ball and riding his tractor. We have had him in swim classes, Gymboree Play & Music classes, library reading groups, and he has a small handful of friends.

All of my son's play and learning is self initiated - he brings me the puzzles & magnet letters and says "Open please". I find that although he plays as I expect him to, his desire to learn trumps everything.

In most ways, he is every bit of what you expect and hope a 2 year old to be. In other ways, he is not - not at all and this is not a negative, but a positive.

We did not request homework, nor to put him in a higher class - The higher level work was provided to us by the school on Day 2. The teacher explained to me that he is reading out loud to the class. They explained that the homework is for us to complete at home so at school he can focus on "fitting in". I do fear his boredom with his age group's curriculum may create a problem.

We are "ecstatic" to work on his homework, because HE enjoys it. When/if he says no, we move onto what he wants to do at that time. We believe he has flourished because of his own desires and initiatives. We had a nanny, but again the pressure of "he has to be socialized" by everyone (from grandmas, to pediatrician, to other moms) is why we explored a day school.

Does sending him for 3 hrs a day to school give him the opportunity to play with his peers a positive or is the separation anxiety or poor behaviors exhibited by some children going to impact him negatively? Run of the mill day care did not go well on previous attempts, so we are happy that we found a curriculum based day school.

The feedback some have provided is invaluable. I feel as though we are in a catch 22.

If learning is what he loves to do most, am I taking that away by dropping him off in a class where I know (and he knows) he is sitting through topics he has already mastered?

I don't think 2yos need to be in a serious, full- or half-day program for social development, though I don't think a well-run program harms them. By 4 or 5, if your child will be going to K, he or she should learn how to function in a classroom setting--wait turns, line up, be quiet when an adult is speaking, and get along and share with other children. (Well, even if not going to K, IMO--but it is not so necessary yet.) A 2yo can get some early social exposure in a lot of other ways, so no NEED for preschoo, but yes, find ways to socialize somehow, occasionally, anyway.

As someone who raised 2 very bright and in one case hyperverbal toddlers, I would say that they really benefited from being around other kids, even if at first they did not seem to. We learn from other humans, and from contact with other humans. Yes, even when some other kid is throwing a block at your kid's head. Of course, sometimes there is a poor fit, with another child or a teacher, or a poor environment.

We had a nanny, but again the pressure of "he has to be socialized" by everyone (from grandmas, to pediatrician, to other moms) is why we explored a day school.


Honestly, we got a lot of that kind of pressure, too. I drove myself nearly round the bend trying to find somewhere that WOULD take my then-3yo for preschool, in light of her food allergy situation.

We got put on waiting lists, our applications got lost, and we otherwise walked away from preschools thinking "OY-- just-- no."

We never found one, and while my mother-in-law was pretty convinced that this meant enmeshment at the very least, and probably sociopathy down the road, I'm pleased to report that my daughter (who was similarly appalled at what was considered "age appropriate" conduct on the part of agemates) seems to be empathetic, kind, and generous at 14. Moreso than some of her peers who were "properly" socialized.


Remember, your goal is to produce a functional adult at some point down the line, not to be produce a 5yo who can fit in with all of the other five year olds at kindergarten.

With HG+ children, all too often that particular option is just never on the menu to begin with, so energy spent trying to make it so is really just WASTED effort.

I'm also going to gently suggest that given your child's age, you should look at the "homework" thing and ask if there is a BETTER way to be spending that time-- these are years that you won't get back, and they are wondrous. He has time for homework and externally-directed academics later. Developmentally, there are windows for play and exploration that will not be open for much longer, however...

my only concern would be that the TIME spent doing homework sent home by the preschool might be displacing family time that could be spent on something else-- something that might still be academic in nature, but would be what HE chooses, not what someone else offers. Does that make sense?

Val, with respect, I didn't say any of the things you're purporting my message implied.

All I've suggested is that raising preschool aged children is subject to both attentional constraints and agency problems, both of which are minimized under a stay-at-home parent model (either mother or father--both can be parents!--this isn't a women's issue, it's a family issue.)

On the first front, it's just a mathematical reality that someone with one or two children can pay each child more attention than a group-based caregiver with 10 or more charges. The time they spend with their child(ren) means they develop a deeper understanding of their child(ren)'s personalities and needs, and they can rally the resources required to meet those needs, be they interpersonal or otherwise, in a timely fashion (or at all).

Regarding agency problems, paid caregivers are subject to moral hazard. Whereas a parent has a duty of long term care--and the psychic (attachment), attentional, and financial incentives not just to avoid risk, but to optimize outcomes-- teachers and other caregivers face a shorter time horizon. This creates a misalignment of incentives between the child and the caregiver and results in developmetal outcomes that fall below the optimal opportunity set generated by the presence of an at-home parent. Even if a caregiver of identical quality to the parent is available, the outcome for the child will be inferior to a SAH parent model just by dint of moral hazard, assuming rationality on all sides.

Now, all of that said, life is full of trade-offs, one of which is financial. For many families who NEED two incomes to put food on the table, the cost to the child of malnourishment or living in a violent neighbourhood that could otherwise be avoided by earning two incomes might outweigh the advantage of SAH parent. Many very good parents who would prefer to stay home cannot.

Another possibility is that the parent-caregiver care quality differential is relatively small, (thanks to a great caregiver, a low-quality parent, or some combination of both), such that the caregiver experience is approximately--though not precisely-- comparable to the parent experience. As a decision based on gross family-level utility it may well be an optimal outcome for the family for both parents to work, which I suspect is your case (thanks to a great caregiver).

None of this implies that children cannot thrive in a well-matched paid care setting, but it does say there are non-zero intra-family trade-offs in utility being made under paid care that don't exist under a SAH parent model.

Incidentally, Deb Ruf advocates SAH parenting wherever possible for gifted preschool children based on her clinical experience in her 5 levels book. I'm inclined to borrow her book from the library to go to her source material on that matter to refresh my memory.

OP: sorry for the hijack! If this line of commentary continues, I'll cut my responses into a new thread and Val and I can duke it out in our own thread. Although Val and I often come at issues from different perspectives, I enjoy chatting with her and, for selfish reasons, didn't want to miss this opportunity.

Howler and squishys skirt a point that I'll make explicit: these kids learn so blazingly fast at this age that almost no un-personalized environment will be well-adapted to their interests or needs for long, socially or academically, so don't count on school to push him. (Not should it at this age, I'd argue!) Far better to let him find his own learning opportunities through play. Pleasure is the name of the game.

The academics simply can't be avoided. If our kids want to learn something and material so much as tangentially related to the topic of interest is within 1,000 miles, they'll learn it. Provide the material as requested, scaffold, and support.

I say this as the woman whose son spends 95% of his day smashing trucks together, and who read spontaneously before 2.

I would just like to add that I think the "socialization" argument is WAY over-stated. I have heard kids need to take the bus "for socialization," have to go to pre-school (at age 2!!!??? Really???), "for socialization" have to go to daycare "for socialization" etc., etc. I stopped making any decisions on such nonsense. I personally agree that actual and quite good socialization can be learned in good family and going out and about with parents, playing at the playground, etc. Now maybe kids with social deficits and disorders need more specific therapy in this regard and need it earlier, etc. but, other than that, I think the whole "needs socialization!" is way over done... But that is just my opinion. It was the mantra around here, everyone - particularly SAHMs, running around putting 2 years olds in various daycares and "schools" for "socialization!" Apparently, someone somewhere said "OH your TWO YEAR OLD absolutely NEEDS to go to "school" - otherwise how will he learn "Socialization!" {It reminded of the scene in the movie "Idiotcracy" where everyone is running around feeding plants something like Gatorade and repeating the product commercial saying "Because It's what plants crave!" LOL} MANY whispered behind my back when I didn't go along with it.... They were also "concerned" that I wasn't putting DS on the school bus to got to school opting rather to drop him off ("but what about the socialization he will miss out on if he doesn't take the bus!!!") and not in drop-off daycares at gyms, etc. Honestly, I thought the mindset was a bit weird. I'm glad those days are over - my kids, for the record, seem fine

We tried the SAHP route, it didn't turn out to be sufficient for DS or sustainable for the parent. I am quite sure it works very well for many families. DS needed more at a young age (starting at about 2ish) than the smart, capable, perfectionist parent could provide while maintaining some life balance.

As with other topics, few things seem to work perfectly for all, or for one child year after year. :-)

You need to decide what is best for your child. No solution is perfect (and yes, I have seen some downfalls to SAH situation - one being a family where the wife could not drive and was by nature on the shy side - their little one was starting to act out at home and trying to follow her dad out the door every time he left the apartment because she was going stir crazy, and they ended up putting her into a part time daycare, which really helped a lot - for both the mother who was getting so stressed due to the lack of mobility outside of their home and the child acting out at 18 months). So it is really what is best for the WHOLE family.

I agree that using the socialization as the argument is not really a strong one, but really, it is what works for the family.

With 2 children in daycare, I have to say, it is unusual even at 18 months to have a room full of crying kids, so see if you can observe the room when it is not drop off. DD is 20 months, and I always make a point to drop off during breakfast, and unless someone fell or such, it is usually just the usual toddler chatter. I have never seen her room where kids were just randomly crying and never more than 1 (usually over a fall, or over a popular toy/book or if they spilled their milk into their lap - this is the age where at daycare, they are learning how to use their spoon and cup so it gets messy).

But we are lucky - DD's teachers go crazy with art projects - which DD absolutely loves, and in novel ways (which we find out at home when I catch her trying to use random objects to use in her artwork and nothing is safe from being used as either a brush or for smearing) and they do books and songs galore, so we have learned some tunes we never heard before.

If the nanny was a good situation, and you could still have some fun activities that he likes with other kids (same age or older), is that an option for you? It did not sound like daycare/preschool was driven for reasons other than the socialization aspect... if so, maybe just returning to the old setup is better - whether it is at 2, 3 or 4 - it is really not going to matter when they need to be able to socialize.

I really don't have much worthwhile to add that hasn't already been said, but fwiw I wanted to second what notnafnaf mentioned - all three of my children when through daycare and preschool (multiple schools, many different teachers) and not one of them had a room full of crying children all day, even when the babies were really really tiny. I would try to drop in at mid-morning and see what the environment is like then - or perhaps just stay for a few hours in the morning after drop-off. If there really are children crying all the time, that to me is an indication that the place really isn't a good place for *any* child, regardless of IQ.

FWIW, I was also a hands-off the academics at that age too - didn't worry about it, and just followed my kids' leads... and chose preschools that had a similar philosophy (in our area, Montessori worked well - not just because it was Montessori, but because it was truly child-led in terms of learning and because of the wonderful teachers).

Best wishes,

polarbear

If you are able to stay home with him, he could get positive social experiences with playdates, parent-child classes, parks, etc. That's enough 'socialization' for a two year old. If you do need childcare, what about an in-home daycare with maybe 4 or 5 other kids? That might give him a home-like atmosphere and a chance to develop real relationships with other kids in a non-overwhelming environment.

In my opinion, any preschool/daycare environment that your child hates is not going to be beneficial, and can even be harmful psychologically. If your child is not happy (after giving him time to adjust ), you should take him out of that environment. Also, be aware that sometimes a good environment can go bad, if there are changes in staffing, or if your child gets frustrated/bored by the curriculum. Personally, I've stuck with things that weren't working for too long, and my child never made progress socially in those situations.

Both my kids went to combination of home based care and day care. With a few exceptions kids only cry when they are hurt or are having a rough day. It worked for my kids BUT if I could have afforded a nanny who could have taken them to playgroup and gym and music and kept them home when they were tired and sick that would have been a far better option. Little kids don't need to socialise all day every day to learn socialisation skills and to be honest skills are probably better learnt in shorter bursts.

And NO child under school age should be expected to sit through academics except of their own free will OR ever given homework. I don't mean a 10 minute song, story etc session but even then the child should be expected and strongly encouraged but not forced.

DS3 is in daycare and he LOVES his teacher. I have seen kids cry when having to leave but not the other way around past the first day or so. There isn't much in the way of academics. The worksheets I have seen are a little different than expected but probably relate back to his teacher's psychology background. It seems like she is using a social skills workbook. There are worksheets with a picture of a situation involving a few people and then choices of how they might react. I think these are worked on as a group with lots of acting on her part.
They learn songs with hand motions and dance moves, tend a garden and harvest their own snack, care for a class pet, take naps and play.

At that age DS6 was in a more rigid academic setting and hated it. It took him a while to get over the "school is a bad place" mentality.

I strongly feel preschool should be a place where he's learning to make friends, to share toys, to take turns, to solve conflicts, to follow classroom routines, to increase his frustration tolerance, to do messy art group projects, and to explore and navigate social dynamics.

If it's a quality program where he is learning to do all the above and more, 10-15 minutes of academic instruction per day that is overly repetitive for him is probably okay - not great but not detrimental either. A lot of parents want and expect that kind of exposure for their 2/3 year olds so if you are at a "mainstream" preschool, it'd be hard to avoid that but it's not like in Kindergarden where they spend a significant portion of the day going over basic phonics and numeracy. That, I think, would be a problem.

Thank you again for the feedback. This is a new venture for us, and I appreciate all of the perspectives and opinions.

The primary focus of his "curriculum" is reading and singing corresponding songs to the books, as well as learning sight words, etc. I would like to stress that this curriculum is fun and that these 2 & 3 year olds are not being made to sit in chairs and work on worksheets. Unlike most daycares, this is a school in the sense that every "toy" is an educational one and they have educational "goals" they try to meet each week. (Retention/Comprehension of the books, recognizing words, etc)

The homework, for the 4-5 year olds, is designed to be "fun" with focus on sentence building, CVC words, etc. Although my little guy finds this "homework" fun because it's new material...a challenge.

After reading some of your replies, I sought out additional clarification from the teachers as I do agree with most of you - it should be a happy experience not a day filled with educational structure. At this age, they really are focusing on the children being in a socially driven environment with pair playing and circle time.

This thread garnered some deep discussions between my husband and I. When a child care provider says "it is normal for your child to cry for hours, even all day" you have to wonder how much of a good time that could possibly be for the children who are not crying.

Ultimately, an environment that is so extremely stressful cannot positively impact anyone, gifted or not.

We have noticed, in less than 2 short weeks that our little guy is regressing some...he has sought out his old baby books, is less interested in things/toys he was before. What we aren't sure of yet is where it leads. We are willing to give it time so long as he continues to grow in other ways.

The comments regarding the pressure we felt to "socialize" him helped clarify a few things for us; specifically, that it is not entirely a necessary step at this age. He is not kept inside away from the world and therefore I do believe he can adapt to social norms without the influence of a day school or child care center.

Good luck and keep us posted! Wishing you success with the path you choose.

Educational goals at that age are a red flag to me. good luck.