Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion After ALEKS - then what?

My 2 DD's just went through a whole year of math on ALEKS in about 10 hours. Can ALEKS really teach that quickly - do kids really know the material from an online product?
I was going to buy the Singapore math books for over the summer. Seem like a good follow up?

Which year?

Aleks is not a complete curriculum. The Singapore books are deeper/more challenging IMO.

I think it's important when you're using programs like ALEKS to have a clear understanding of what you're trying to accomplish with them - so it might help us answer if you explained what your idea is in using ALEKS or another math program.

I suspect that what you are seeing from your description is that your dds already either knew or had been exposed to the topics at the grade level they were working in ALEKS. ALEKS doesn't really "teach" anything at all - a child is given an assessment at the beginning of the grade level, they are left with a set of modules they will need to master to finish that grade level, based on which questions they did not answer correctly on the assessment. The assessment is only asking one of each type of problem, so they could for instance make a silly mistake, a careless mistake, or perhaps just not remember how to do something and miss it on the assessment, and they will then have that concept included in the list of what they need to learn. After the assessment, they select modules to "work on" to master. If they get three answers in a row correct during their work session, they've mastered that module. So if it's a concept they've already been exposed to, they'll most likely automatically complete it right away. If it's a relatively easy concept (lower level courses) or a concept they've already been taught but forgotten or not truly mastered in school, they can read the online explanation and then do the problems while the concept is fresh in their minds - and that will again be considered "mastered" - for the time being.

What ALEKS does if you are using it over time is to every so often throw in another assessment which includes topics already "mastered" (within the same course). If the student misses the question (which might happen because it didn't really "stick" the first time around) - then that topic is re-activated in their "pie" and they have to show mastery again before moving on.

I agree with DeeDee that if you really want to teach math in a meaningful way to your children that Singapore or another curriculum would be a better way to go - but I'd also suggest that before you buy a set of books or curriculum etc, you do a bit more playing around with ALEKS. Sit with your dds while they are working in it and see if you get a feel for - have they seen the material before? Are they truly picking up new concepts quickly? Things like that. Also move them up to a higher grade level in ALEKS. For instance, (and this is just a total hypothetical because I don't remember what grade your dds are in) - if they are in 4th grade at school, and you'd had them set on 5th grade level math in ALEKS, have them take the next-level-up assessment. If they score around 70-80% on the assessment, move up them up to the next course level and take that initial assessment etc.

We have used ALEKS with each of our children, but we didn't use it as a replacement for an actual course at school - instead we used it as a way for them to learn concepts that allowed them to be placed where they needed to be in math classes at school. That probably sounds like the same two things, but there's a subtle difference between the two. And yes, my kids did retain things they learned in ALEKS, but I'm also a math nerd myself and when the kids ran into a concept they didn't understand I helped them with it - none of my kids liked learning concepts by reading the ALEKS explanations.

Hope that makes sense!

polarbear

ps - eta - I said above "we used ALEKS as a way for our kids to learn concepts that allowed them to be placed where they needed to be in math classes in school" - I should have added that we also used it as "proof" that they knew specific concepts that allowed them to be placed in higher level math courses. So for us it was a combo of fill the gaps + show that there weren't gaps... I found the reports that tied state curriculum goals to topics mastered in ALEKS were really helpful in advocating at school for proper placement.

What polar bear said.

Aleks was more of an assessment, fill in the gaps, fun supplement for my older son when he was homeschooling that we used along side what I was doing with him more formally.

I probably will use it again soon because I need some information about my second son now in fourth grade so will probably pay for summer and assess him and let him play around on it. Mainly because he needs stuff over the summer to keep him busy.

As polarbear said ALEKS is intended as supplementary material for a course of study. In addition if you started at a level your child has already mastered, it wouldn't have taken long to complete. There is an assessment test at the beginning.

SAHM : Which year?

- I started the 3rd grader on 4th and the 4th grader on the 5th grade.

Polarbear: Sit with your dds while they are working in it and see if you get a feel for - have they seen the material before? Are they truly picking up new concepts quickly? Also move them up to a higher grade level in ALEKS.

- I saw that they knew about 1/2 of the grade right off the bat. It was obvious that they hadn’t seen other concepts, but they jumped into them and really enjoyed working them out. They actually liked the explanations and figured them out quickly. They want to move on to the next level as soon as they can.


Polarbear: We have used ALEKS with each of our children, but we didn't use it as a replacement for an actual course at school - instead we used it as a way for them to learn concepts that allowed them to be placed where they needed to be in math classes at school.

-Yes. I wanted to see what my kids knew. We are facing another test at school to get into single subject acceleration, and they need to prove that they know the material. It has cemented my views that the AIG services are not challenging at all at their school. They both need higher level classes.

bluemagic: As polarbear said ALEKS is intended as supplementary material for a course of study.

-It seems like my decision to do Singapore Math then is a good one. Now I need to go figure out what level to order.

ITA with what Polarbear said.

The summer following their 3rd grade year, my DS did ALEKS pre-algebra and my DD did ALEKS 6th grade (to keep DS company and to be "fair"). It took them about a month to fill the pie in their respective courses. While ALEKS showed that DS met all our state standards, that did not translate to "acing" our district pre-algebra test. This extra credential along with the DYS consultant and other test scores didn't hurt but ultimately DS had to do well on the district pre-algebra test, which he did although he didn't quite ace it like he did the national algebra readiness test he took at the end of that year to qualify to take algebra this school year.

Last month I had DS compare/describe his various math courses. He explained that ALEKS was really easy compared to everything else he has had because you didn't have to write/explain and the problems do not get tricky and it is possible (for him) to forget a concept here and there since you may literally spend only a few minutes to skim the "lesson" and do a few problems. Now DS is my mathy kid. His not-particularly mathy sister clearly did not get anywhere near the depth of coverage required for full retention. This was not a problem since she did not choose to be accelerated (only regular GT, which is 1 year advanced plus enrichment). While she "passed" the ALEKS topics easily/quickly enough, she probably forgot half of the stuff within a year.

I didn't like the look of the Singapore math curriculum personally but I understand that the challenge problems are at a good level. I think that the key to a good choice depends on your purpose. If you want acceleration within the school, then you have to make sure that they will meet the school's criteria so look to the district's curriculum. If you want to encourage their interest, then pick what you think will be "fun" for them.

My plan for the summer is to have DD do Khan Academy, which is free and includes video lessons of the concepts, and supplement with something like Singapore math to reinforce those concepts. My goal is to close gaps so that she can go straight from third grade math to fifth or sixth grade math, since she already knows most of the 4th-5th grade level material. Some people have argued that Khan Academy is just teaching numerical operations, but I don't agree. For the lower grades at least, I think he is pretty good at explaining why math is done the way it is. For instance 7/8 is the same as 7 X 1/8 and why. Then kids understand why fractions can be multiplied the way they are. It never would have occurred to me to explain it that way, I would have just said "multiply the top numbers, then the bottom numbers."
With Khan Academy, I go to the specific grade level we are working in and have my kids work their way down the list of skills. It does quiz the kids on each concept and they have to get 5 in a row correct.

I looked again at ALEKS compared to our state curriculum and they list TD next to several concepts so I just don't know if DD will test well on those. I feel so bad that for all these years we didn't know that DD was so gifted. And now if she doesn't pass this other state test (no matter what her WISC or WJ or Cogat or Iowa say), she won't get more challenging work. The AIG system that she has been accepted into is 1 hour a week pullout - that's it. The rest of the time she's doing the same ol' same ol'. Her older sister, who I think is moderately gifted (untested) actually seems to be doing better on ALEKS because she is one of those determined, organized kids who just keeps plugging ahead. It just wouldn't be right if older DD gets SSA and younger DD does not. It will just about break DD's heart especially since she thinks that big sister is so much better than her. How can a kid with such a big IQ be so unaware of her smarts, her imagination? And now I am second guessing myself about which SSA subject I picked. Younger DD is at a high school level for reading and would have done well on the LA test without any work. The AIG teacher told me to have DD do the math test though.
Thanks all for just listening to me worry.