Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Elementary School Another early K question: impulsive young boys

DD (8.5, 2nd grade) is PG, and was pretty much way ahead with all academics all her life, and way behind in everything else (motor, social, emotional). She did 2.5 years in Montessori preschool and finished the K curriculum by age 4. She's also very, very, very ADHD (combined type). The school we've been in has not accommodated academically in any way which has been an incredibly painful experience.

DS (4.5) is quite her opposite in many ways. He's very social, great motor skills, emotionally pretty normal-seeming for his age. He will turn 5 in October, making him 7 weeks too young for the kindergarten cut-off. He reads decently well lately, CVC words, some blends, sight words. His math is up to K. He enjoys science (hands-on; but he also loves the Magic School Bus books more than anything right now). But, he's not academically driven and precocious all over like his sister. Where strangers always looked at DD and said, "Wow, she's so smart!" they look at DS and say, "Wow, he's so cute!"

And, he's impulsive. He's not as impulsive as his sister way, but he's definitely the kid most likely to be goofing off or messing around in any group activity. He's the kid who needs 5 reminders and a warning. He doesn't want you to be upset with him, but he totally gets carried away. He's always been this way compared to age-peers. Maybe he'll be dx with ADHD later. Maybe he'll just grow out of it eventually.

So, academically, I feel like he'd be fine in Kindergarten. But he'd be the youngest, and on top of that, somewhat impulsive. He'll be the behavioral bane of his teacher's class. But he'll also be able to complete all the academic work, which he'll probably like doing well enough.

So we're at this kindergarten crossroads and not sure which way to jump:

1. I could apply for early entrance to K for him.

2. I could send him to preschool (it would be part time) next year, and put him in K the next year. He's already ahead of average, so he'd maybe be really ahead.

3. The district we're moving to does allow kids to early entrance to 1st. So it's also possible that after a year of part-time preschool, he could get early entrance to 1st grade when he's 5-almost-6.

WWYD?

One difficulty is that I haven't found a preschool I like that is near where we are shortly moving to. The nearest part-time preschool I've found to like is about 30 minutes away.

So he hasn't ever tried a school environment? If they aren't likely to offer acceleration or accommodations later, I think it's worth trying early entrance. If you could find a good preschool and then have the option of moving him into first, that might be ideal. My kids have some similarities to yours (DD is very mature and PG, DS is less mature) and I found a big difference between preschool and kindergarten. In preschool, there was more flexibility. He did very well. In kindergarten, they are more structured and DS has had a lot of difficulty because he doesn't have the maturity to patiently work through things he already knows how to do. The teacher offers some accommodations, but it has been challenging. I'm just not sure that an extra year of maturity would have helped because it would also have worsened his frustration with the work.

So I don't know what will work best for your child, but those are my thoughts based on our experience.

I would be slightly hesitant about putting an immature young-for-grade boy in K, not because I think there would be an ACTUAL problem, but because he might be perceived as one. Are you sure he behaves like that in groups if you are not present? Has he done preschool?

Oh, I didn't mean to imply he hadn't been in preschool. He's been in a daycare center for the last 14 months, and they also do preschool activities. His class has 11 kids, but they're all really close in age--no 1-year spread--because the center is quite new and they are all the oldest ones.

At his P/T conference a month or so ago, his preschool teacher wasn't either hugely for or against him going on to K next year. She felt like he was doing much better at listening and following instructions since she took over the class 5 months ago.

Yes, this is basically my concern. Right now there will still be work that's mildly challenging in Kindergarten. I think a year from now, that won't really be the case. I feel like the choice is, is it worse to be younger and a bit less mature and slightly impulsive, or older and slightly impulsive and bored?

Academically (minus handwriting) my DS8 could've gone early K (Dec birthday,) but he had a similar impulsive bent that we thought would undercut the school experience and possibly hamper the positive trait that that particular mindset of confident curiousity seems to lead to. So, no early K, and he ended up skipping 2nd, and he is a self-motivated headstrong learner.

We did PreK and then straight to 1st. My DDs Bday is Oct as well.


From an emotional/social point of view it was awesome. Academically, it worked out. Since they were both fluent readers before PreK--- going to K and getting differentiation was going to be a challenge anyway.

They are now in 3rd/ young for grade and doing fine. Academically school is not much of a challenge at this point and they get 'challenge' material for math (one DD), spelling (both) , and reading (but not happening there) . Socially, they are young and absolutely act their actual age vs average peer age.

I would consider when early application to K takes place. Is it now or over the summer?

My DS just barely made the cut off for K this year. Academically he was not prepared, which made his age and maturity a difficult transition. I second guessed myself all year. However, now that he is academically caught up, he is starting to enjoy school, and since we found out he is gifted, I'm glad he is young. Waiting for a year for him to mature would likely be a problem in the future. Now it's as if he were accelerated already (also many boys are red-shirted in our area).

I swore DS had ADHD, but testing said otherwise, and teacher swears up and down he acts like a normal 5 year old in class. I've reconsidered after researching giftedness that the behaviors I see (some of them) may be due to his inquisitiveness instead.

I think a best option may be a type of preschool/early elementary like Montessori, where he can progress at his pace (quick or slow), have freedom, and not many expectations. After the summer or some time period you can reevaluate early K or continue until 1st early admission.

That's a good point; to get early entrance into K, he must have test results available around August 15, and then would be admitted or not around August 30. (Ridiculous timing, IMO, since I'd already have had to enroll him in and pay tuition for a preschool just in case he didn't make it in, which is costly and, when he's pulled out, inconvenient for everybody.)

This means he'd have to take a bunch of tests by early August, because they want formal testing in 5 areas (cognitive, social, fine and gross motor, and something else I can't recall... but, very lengthy AND costly!) and he has to produce scores equal to an average 5 1/2 year old or better--so, basically, he can't get into K without coming in middle of his class to begin with.

I am actually touring a Montessori tomorrow. I have to admit, he was in a Montessori for about 2 months early last year, and it didn't work out well at all. But, that was the 2 months directly before his father and I separated so there was a lot of external stress. And it was an immersion preschool and almost all the other kids were being raised by parents from another culture, so it's hard to tell if Montessori didn't work well for him, or just that school.

Will you be expected to provide the testing independently since he's not yet a student? Or will they be testing? That sounds like more than just an IQ test. It sounds like a full educational psychologist eval, which for us cost four times the base average IQ testing in this area. Unfortunately, we all know how slow some school systems are to test, so even if he were admitted and you asked for testing it may not change anything for him for months. You may also inquire as to how advanced for a grade skip he must be. Here there is not early K admission as far as I know, and for a one-year grade skip consideration the child must show to be 2 years advanced in achievement (not necessarily IQ I think).

You may also consider timing of testing/K/preschool. There's no law that children have to start preschool/K at specific times. Could you enroll him in preschool, get testing, and then switch to K later on? Our district allows advancement at any time of the year, not just fall. And at that age, though it's not ideal to start K at a later time than the rest of the kids, if he's academically advanced and does well in a school-type setting already, he will likely adjust very well. A lot of kids that age have seen friends come and go from preschool/daycare/etc and love new playmates.

As for Montessori, they are all independent and there's a ton of variation amongst them all. You may have better luck with a different school, though the freedom they allow to explore may not suit his personality. To each his own. I would be inclined to think that an immersion (in a different language from home?) preschool would be awesome, but also quite a time adjustment. I admit I have no experience to offer though on that regard.

I must amend my prior post to include a thought. My DS was not academically ready when he started K. It sounds like this will not be an issue at all and in your shoes, with early advancement only a short time from the K cutoff, I think it may be beneficial to seek either early K or skip to first grade. Skipping K would give a benefit of having "preschool" time to mature so the seat work may not be so burdensome, as long as academics are progressing quickly in whatever preschool suits him well. JMO