Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment High Working Memory on WISC

This is interesting Blackcat... From what I remember my DS when he was last tested did well with numbers forward (he always does) and Letter number sequence but poorly on reverse numbers. I read in Portwood's book on dyspraxia that this a common profile for those with dyspraxia - to do poorly on reverse digits but it didn't say why. From what O remember your son has dyspraxia, no? I am pretty sure my son does , too.

Interesting. He wasn't trying to deterimine if DS was gifted and I think everyone was surprised by the 18-19 scores in PR (block design was more like 13 I think). All it said in the report was that the PR score is most likely an underestimate of his visual spatial ability because of the motor component involved with block design. The Grooved Pegboard was timed as well and involves just putting pegs in a board. He was ridiculously slow and I'm guessing that is also what happened with the blocks. He's still slow with fine motor skills but not as bad.

I will probably get him re-tested at some point if we stay with this school district. I don't think they will accept IQ scores from outside providers unless they are specific ones that are pre-approved. DS went to a major university and I'm sure it was fine, so it's annoying if we'd have to re-test just because it wasn't done by the "right" person. I also don't know if they'd accept test scores that were done on a 6 year old for entrance to gifted programming in third grade. The school uses the CogAT but I'm worried he will be too slow since it's timed and probably involves writing or filling out bubbles, so I might refrain from filling out the permission form for that.

whoa - I just looked up my son's score. He scored superior in letter number sequencing! High average in digit span but they didn't break down the reversed and the forwards this time The digits reversed is always worse with him, though. He has always scored well on digits forward, poorly on digits backwards.

As an aside I have no idea that how my son's WMI got so high. At the time I got the scores, I made her double check and also check to make sure she didn't have his scores mixed up with some one else's. His processing though - so, so so low. To me this just really shows that Ds's attention span is not the problem - it's getting the stuff out that is problematic (processing speed) ... But I digress.

Yes, he has DCD. It just seems like if a kid has a problem with reverse digits, they would also have a problem with Letter-Number Sequencing. I don't really understand why they give two tests that are practically the same. Why not do digit span and then something completely different, like visual memory.

Well technically this would seem to make sense but my DD clearly has pretty severe ADHD and her working memory was 96th percentile and processing speed was like 34th. Meanwhile DS's working memory is much lower than hers with a huge gap between PR and everything else, and I don't think he has ADHD.

Oh well, LOL - there goes that theory!

Yeah, I hear you. I agree. I remember really looking for info on this exact issue a few years ago. Back then, DS WMI wasn't good. When it was broken down his LNS was okay and his forward digits was good. His reversed digits? deplorable. Second test with SB-V (has the digits tests but no LNS ... I think?) He did quite well on digits forward - not so great on digits backwards leading to a pretty solidly average WMI. Almost two years later, he scores superior on LNS and High Average on digit span and I suspect DS broke down into superior on numbers forward and probably like low average on backwards... BUT not entirely sure.

It does seem like digits backwards taps into something - and I suspect something specific to dyspraxia or dysgraphia. Portwood seems to say as much but she doesn't say what it is .... probably no one knows yet.

Okay so here is what the book "Understanding Developmental Dyspraxia - A textbook for Students and Professionals" by Madeline Portwood says: "digits forward and digit backwards may involve different cognitive processes, especially in certain clinical groups. Studies show that the performance of dyspraxic youngsters highlights significant weakness in repeating the digits backwards." Unfortunately, that's all it says.

I just asked both kids and DD (age 8) could do 5 backwards easily and DS (turned 7 a couple months ago) could do 4 but struggled w/ 5. So would that really earn a digit span score of 10-11 for DS? I didn't try forwards but I think for DS it's probably around 6-7 digits. I find it so strange how DD doesn't seem to have any problem with this at all but she looks spaced out if you ask her what's 9+4. DS didn't have nearly as many problems memorizing math facts.

Okay, so here's the scoop. Digits forwards typically is reflective of the auditory short-term memory channel, as well as attention. Digits reversed is often reflective of the visual memory channel. In order to be successful at digits reversed without brute force (i.e., repeating the sequence forwards mentally or subvocally, but saying the last number out loud, and then repeating the whole sequence forwards, but vocalizing the second to last digit, etc.), which is quite laborious, and requires a pretty big auditory loop, one inputs the digit sequence into something like a visual scratch pad in the brain. Those who are most successful then read it off the scratch pad, but backwards. If your visual scratch pad isn't very big, or has a short expiration time, you will have a hard time with digits reversed. This is most likely why a child with DCD might be so much more successful with digits forwards, but tank digits backwards. Both DCD and digits backwards are connected to perceptual deficits.

If DSF and DSB are significantly different, then the combined digit span score does not really capture the working memory profile of the individual.

blackcat, with your children in particular, those spans are actually quite good for their age, and would have suggested higher scaled scores to me for your DS7. On the other hand, in formal testing, we expect them to repeat those spans consistently. If you can do it sometimes, but not every time, you may not receive as high a scaled score as your longest span would suggest. And inconsistency is often what you find when the expected low cognitive load means of completing a task does not come naturally, and children have to enlist a great deal of cognition into working around their deficit areas.