Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Writers block, could there be more going on?

My DS15 who is a freshman in H.S. gets very stuck when it comes to writing. He CAN write quite brilliantly when he has something to say. His first drafts are better than mine. He gets mentally blocked and nothing I can think of doing will get him to even put one word on the paper. He over analyses everything to do with the essay/project, and makes the projects 100% harder than it the one assigned. And he wants to have the entire essay in his mind before he puts one word to paper.

This came to a head again last night, on a one page analysis of a poem for English. I couldn't convince him the teacher really didn't want a unique interpretation, that he wasn't writing a masters thesis on it. It is a bit of a perfection issue, if it doesn't feel like his voice he won't write it. When he was in 6th grade he had major problems with this issue that I mostly dealt with by backing off a bit. He was in very intense honors program and was having anxiety problems at the time. By last year his 8th grade teacher thought he was an excellent writer and didn't even hesitate to recommend him for the honors classes. But this year he is struggling in both English & Social Students because of his inability to quickly write to a prompt. This is something he HAS to be able to do to function in H.S. level English, and for things such as a the writing prompt on the SAT/ACT.

I have decided to send him to a 3 week writing camp/class this summer that I had been dithering about. But I'm not sure how much this will help except give him more practice. The question is could there be a LD or something else deeper going on? I had two different psychologists in the past who said he didn't fit an aspergers diagnosis. I am considering having the Educational Therapist who worked with my DD19 who had language processing issues evaluate him just because I know her. I'm just not sure she is the right specialist.

I am getting so frustrated. Next year he will have to be in regular CP English & Social Studies because his writing is not up to par. He was dropped to this English class over semester break because of the writing problems, and now he is totally bored in most of the class while getting 100% on everything but his writing. I don't know how to help him. My friends think I just need to make him WANT it enough. But this starts to feel like when my daughter didn't crawl by 12 months, and there was nothing I could do to get her moving. Working with a physical therapist helped immensely and it felts so good to have the right tools to help.

Any suggestions, resources, who would be best to try and help my son with this situation. I guess I need to go in and talk with his counselor about this in hopes that she can influence his teacher choice for next year.

bluemagic, I can't tell you if it is or isn't an LD or other challenge for your ds, but I would wonder about the possibility of an LD based on a few things you've included in your post:

* His sister has language processing issues
* Uneven output - when he has an idea he can write really well, but other times he can't get any thoughts out
* Past evals by a psych for ASD - what prompted those evals? Sometimes expressive language challenges are a part of ASD, sometimes they are separate or associated with a different challenge. If the evals were only looking for an ASD, it's possible that something different was overlooked.

The writing process is complex - there are many different skills required to completing a writing assignment. My ds has an expressive language disorder that impacts his ability to generate thoughts for written expression. Although written expression is the largest impact of his LD, it also shows up in his verbal expression too - but it's not easy to see unless you know what to look for. DS can talk like crazy about things that are concrete and factual and that he knows a lot about - but open-ended questions and expressing feelings etc are difficult for him. We didn't realize this as early as we saw the writing difficulties simply because he was so obviously smart when he did talk - but there were clues - one of which I think you've mentioned about your ds - appearing to be shy to talk to adults. His early struggles with writing also looked a lot like perfectionism but that wasn't really the issue.

Re how to determine if there's an LD - our ds' expressive language disorder was diagnosed by a speech pathologist.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Perhaps he could read Anne Lamott's book "Bird by Bird"? She writes a lot about what helps her gets words on the page, including the concept of "sh**ty first drafts."

Thanks, this really helps. It at least gives a place for me to start looking. I can look more into expressive language disorder and I guess I should call my daughters old therapist. She is a certified educational therapist who deals with kids who have reading and language difficulties. Told me back in February that she would be happy to try and fit my son into her schedule.

It is so hard because he is obviously so much more capable than his sister. In many situations he just shines. And he gets so frustrated with writing sometimes he just works himself into a state that pushing gets us nowhere. I'm going to have to take away his computer time today, because I tried that tactic last night and have to follow through with what I said.

That sounds familiar. I think my daughter might have that book. I think it might have been a required book in her first writing class at college.

Just found this:

http://www.davincisroomconsulting.c...e_Processing_Problems_in_Gifted_Kids.pdf

I noticed one of the "signs" is Mom has a tenancy to "talk" for that child. I used to do this for both my children, and it was brought to my notice that this is not helpful. People assumed I did it because I wouldn't let my children talk and this frustrated me. I wasn't doing it intentionally. I got in the habit partly because it was easier, particularly when time was an issue such as at a doctors office.

Thanks for posting the link blue - I don't have time to read through all of it now, but it looks like a wonderful resource. I did have time to read through the list of signs... and fwiw... my ds fit many of them! Including my all-time *not* favorite symptom: "Writing assignments create parental stress". That was a HUGE symptom here in my house lol!


I used to have to do this for ds all the time - still do in some situations. I wouldn't say it's "not helpful", but rather, it's not what other adults expect - there's an expectation that a child will speak up for himself or answer a question when it's directed at him/her. When a child won't answer, adults tend to assume the child is either shy or not interested or being rude or being a child or whatever, when for a child with an expressive language disorder what it really means is they have no idea what to say or how to respond. In that instance - when you are speaking for a child who doesn't know what to say and can't know in the moment because they have a genuine for-real challenge - I think it's actually helpful to speak up for them - it is in one sense an accommodation - just as letting a dysgraphic child type or letting a dyslexic child listen to audio textbooks - to bypass the challenge to accomplish the task. More importantly, every time you speak up for your ds you are showing him how to answer a question with words - and that's a huge part of what a child with an expressive language challenge needs to learn - how to answer with their words. Or at least it has been for my ds.

Best wishes,

polarbear

I get a LOT of grief for doing this particularly from my husband and mother. And I know my teenager my son SHOULD know how to speak for himself. But when a child isn't able to express themselves, and I have a better clue because I know them better. It's hard to just stay quiet. For my daughter I often felt I was modeling and showing her how to respond.

I now feel terribly guilty that I didn't see this earlier. Both guilt and a bit of relief although I know this is just a theory until I can get it tested. In 6th grade DS was having major anxiety and anger problems, than turned into social problems. These stemmed from the demands in his gifted class. One major component was a huge amount of writing. He ended up seeing a psychologist and we put him in a social skills class with kids. These things both helped but clearly hasn't addressed the root of the problem. It's also where I got the opinion that he wasn't 'on the spectrum'.


I've left a phone call with the educational therapist and I've decided I'm going to start by writing his English teacher an email about last nights assignment. I figure that is the first step before addressing his counselor.

Thanks a lot. You have been very helpful.

My read on it is perfectionism mixed with a lack of organizational skills for writing with perhaps a heavy dose of the forest-view sort of gifted mind.

On the perfectionism front, I know adults who want to write novels but never start because they don't know how to get it published. It's a sort of long-sighted short-sightedness. There are some common (possibly mythical) numbers like on average a writer gets their twelfth novel published first. 10 or 12 rewrites of screenply before it filmed. Pretty common number. And that's what professionals do.

For skills, perfectionism, big picture thinking (and for many career endeavours) the key skill is organizing thoughts into bite size executable pieces. Start first with unstructured brainstorming of ideas, points, counter points. Capture those, organize them, hone them down and writing the most clear piece first (not starting at word one and end-to-end one word after another.) I'd look into helping him find graphical tools for organizing thoughts like thought maps.

I love this description.

This is why I've enrolled him in a summer writing program. I can't convince him to outline, make notes, or start in the middle. He needs help by someone other than me. He has been taught these strategies over the years. My husband isn't helping because he starts with word one and works to the end himself. And the fact that DS can get away without doing other things the teachers suggest like study for tests, make detailed outlines of the chapters doesn't help convince him that they are right on this.