Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Offshoot of Parenting Arms Race Thread

I know many of you have good reasons for ruling this out, and that I've said it before, but for anyone who hasn't heard it: remember that the extra-curricular war is purely American. To a first approximation, the rest of the world thinks it weird, and is only interested in how well equipped the student is for the course.

I had an American potential student in my office the other week; he had an offer from [one of the top 6 US colleges], from us and from several other places round Europe. He was visiting his shortlist to decide where to go. Sensible lad. (Lucky, too, to have the funds to make such a tour, of course - but the cost is peanuts compared to a US college education.)

Doesn't have to be the UK, either; more and more European universities teach courses in English.

The QS rankings for subjects of interest are one good place to start:

http://www.topuniversities.com/subject-rankings/2014

I disagree. The extracurricular war in American is minor compared to the schedule of many Chinese students.
And they hire consultants to get their kids in top global schools and plan around the strategy early.

I think Europe is not attuned that way, just like Canada. They don't have that for Canadian schools. You are a top student you can get into U of Toronto, which is on the list of top 20 in the world. Or U of Britsh Columbia, which is next.

Or many non Canadians choose McGill because it has name recognition but not the ranking. So an American can get in without the extracurriculars, pay less tuition and live in Montreal.

Really? I thought university admission in China was all about the Gaokao. Evidently I'm not alone in that belief:

http://chineseculture.about.com/od/historyofchina/fl/The-Gaokao.htm

Wikipedia is confused and controversial, but there's no suggestion that extra-curriculars matter at all, let alone to the same extent they do in the US:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Higher_Education_Entrance_Examination

Where's your information from?

We were talking about admissions to US schools, I thought.

Are you saying that the Chinese kids applying to US schools don't have anything but grades?

I wasn't talking about admissions to US schools. My post that you were replying to was specifically talking about admissions to non-US universities. I thought the rest of your reply, concerning Canada, made it clear that you understood that, hence my confusion! But I see now that you had read my "American" as pertaining to US citizens, where I meant it to pertain to US universities.

It's hardly news that foreigners who apply to universities that admit on the basis of extra-curricular activities also have to care about extra-curricular activities, is it?

But that was the point. The extracurricular race was a result of the Chinese thing. Or the fact that 2 of the most known musicians, Lang Lang and Yo Yo are both Chinese?

When you look at the NY Philharmonic, the violin players under 35 are all asian ethnicity.

A friend who went to China for a couple of years, was asked by middle income families to help them choose instruments, since she went to Julliard. They were all willing to spend money on good equipment because their kids had to practice and be really good. No just taking some piano lessons like I did.

Americans don't push like that in the same way. I think it is a minority. They are competitive in team sports in middle America but that is about getting to Ohio State to play football. I never met anyone west of the Hudson who was obsessed with extra curriculars to get into Ivys. Not that they don't exist but not pervasive like China. There was an article posted here long ago that talked about the preschool day in China for 10 million preschoolers. It was more jam packed than a typical day for a high school kid in America, with music and language classes and sport activities.
Someone I know just got a job with McKinsey. Entry level associate with an MBA. Top school MBA. 135000 salary with 35000 signing bonus. Plus bonus plus mercedes. Now being a strategist with McKinsey is not everyone's cup of tea, but you could pay your mortgage with that. Her resume was quite awesome, but the rest of her new associates were pretty much the same. There are some really outstanding people out there.
Hence the income gap which continues to widen. The amazing people on one side and the average on the other. Hence, why would anyone want to be on the average side with bills to worry over?

I have to avoid those thoughts.

Because COINTELPRO.

Income isn't wealth.

See BigLaw for details.

...which is one of the (many) reasons I'm delighted to be Canadian. I like that DS has the prospect of attending a world-class university and not impoverishing his parents in the process.

For the information of non-Canadians here, many Canadians take the approach of attending a highly ranked Canadian institution for undergraduate and/or master's, then completing doctoral or postdoctoral work at a US school like a Stanford. The most expensive undergraduate programs are in commerce and engineering, and domestic tuition runs ~$10-$15K/year. Arts and science undergrads typically cost $6-$10K/year. (International students pay considerably higher rates.)

The key word there is "considerably."

We looked into what it would cost and the feasibility of DD attending UBC, Trinity Dublin, and a handful of other institutions. The major problem was that she cannot live on campus anywhere that she attends school, which (at 15yo) means having a parent living internationally WITH her... which means...

a work visa, or at the very least having the cash on hand.

Again, the problem then becomes one of sheer economics. It would have cost about the same for her to attend MIT as Trinity Dublin, once we added all of that together... and about the same as it would cost to attend UW or UBC, for that matter. It was all adding up to be right around 50-70K (USD) annually once living expenses got tallied in with tuition costs.

Maybe we just don't see it the way that many families do, but DH and I firmly believe that there are a VERY slim handful of institutions on earth that are worth THAT kind of premium. Sure, MIT is probably among them. But UBC? UW? Not so much.