Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion What colleges look for in extracurriculars

Brief update... There is no longer a Future Farmers of America. It is the FFA Organization and has been since 1990, when delegates voted to drop the full name in order to reflect the wider range of agricultural interests included within it (beyond actual farming). www.ffa.org for anyone who is curious.

It, along with 4-H, is, in my experience, an excellent way for students to learn responsibility, leadership, project management and to broaden their horizons (particularly for truly rural students). In fact, many of my colleagues who hire graduating college students have commented that they can tell which ones are former FFA or 4-H members, because of their maturity, drive, people skills and responsibility. Obviously, that's not true of everyone who is a member, nor does it mean that those traits never exist in other employees, but it is something that's been observed often enough to draw attention.

Just sharing that for those who are not familiar with the organization. The membership includes many students in urban and suburban areas.

I'm hoping that we will be somewhere with an FFA Chapter by the time PG ODS is in junior high or high school. The leadership skills I gained as an FFA officer have been used ever since and I'd like for him (and his younger brother) to have a chance to join, too. I have mixed feelings about the hallowed institutions, having attended both top-tier (non-Ivy) private and land grant universities.

Where do my impressions come from? My network of friends/former colleagues who are in higher ed, and my own experience as an academic meaning that I get the "lingo" and can read between the lines very successfully in interpreting communications from those in Academia at such institutions. I also spent time (post-Espenshade time) sorting out who got such awards within a STEM college at an unnamed mid-sized public college. Because I was a tenure track faculty member at that institution, and because I was a perennial good departmental citizen in terms of serving on the most time-consuming kinds of committees, apparently (sigh)... and because it was a good match with my personal interests-- improving diversity and retention in STEM, that is.

People like me (and those over in admissions) are wise to the fake or overly groomed resume. They can't always do much about it, because such an applicant really DOES have an enormous number of things down there on their vitae, but it's the little things that stand out.

Some of the things that are ringers for "this is only here because of how it looks to us" are:

a) short-term but Big Ticket and Splashy vacation-time "volunteering" at some exotic location-- often overseas. (This is the "getting-it-all-out-of-the-way-at-once" model of community service or volunteering.)

b) TITLES that sound impressive-- lots of them-- as in, in EVERY extracurricular, this applicant is "concertmaster" or "president" or "spokesperson." Because why would you be involved if you aren't in charge?

c) Completely random participation in various activities-- or lots of jumping around from one thing to another.



Okay, what do I mean by that?

Well, this would be a stereotypical "groomed" resume sample of a student like this:

* Ran silent auction for Ronald McDonald House gala benefit
* Served as President for Girl Scout Council (this year only)
* Vice-president of NHS (this year only)
* President of Student Council (past two years)
* Concertmaster and principal oboe, youth symphony (this year only)
* Spearheaded fundraising efforts for {school} Mission {to Caribbean nation}
* Media spokesperson for {school} Community Service project to {Caribbean nation}
* Built a school in {Caribbean nation}-- (spring break this year)


What's wrong with this picture? Well, several things--

The first is that the last three items are all probably a bit overstated, and they are all effectively the SAME thing, really... and the rest of it is photo-op stuff, but not much TIME commitment, other than the symphony one, but even so, let's assume for a moment that the oboe was taken up at the start of high school (when it became evident what an awesome 'scholarship' instrument it is)...

It's also not painting a terribly coherent picture of this student's long-term interests and passions. Well-- it is, all right, but not the way that Mom and Dad were hoping, probably. What it says to me is that this kid is a major schmoozer... and that if I asked co-participants in any of those above activities, they'd probably sneer at some of those entries, because the person basically showed up to shake hands and sign in, and did little of the heavy lifting BEHIND the scenes. Best case scenario is that this kid is pretty skilled as a PR rep for themselves.

Okay-- so my daughter's resume does NOT look like that. What does hers look like?

Peer tutoring Mathematics-- 3 years, ~500 hours.
Local Food bank-- 8 years, ~65-100 hours annually.
Advisory Board membership-- for local government agency-- 3 y, ~70 hours annually.
Community volunteering as a board member-- 200 hours +
NHS/NJHS leadership-- 4 y as treasurer, 1y as President
NHS project leadership-- food bank warehouse work, school events-- 25 hr, over 4 years; food drives 25hr over 4 yr.
NHS-- quilt raffles for Crisis Nurseries/children's charities-- 100 hr, over 3 yr.
4H leadership-- Club treasurer (2y), Club president (2y)
Random Volunteering in community through either 4H or county government (literacy, food security, and mentoring)-- 300+ hours.
4H volunteering-- county leadership (multiple-- all low-key, behind the scenes "real" work positions-- mostly out of the spotlight, and essential to the operation of the program and/or county/state fair)


In other words, she's a kid that puts in a LOT of time, and has done so for many years. Yes, there're a significant number of entries in terms of line items, but more significantly, they definitely read as somewhat under-stated, if anything. The leadership positions are "work" positions, not titular ones.


She also lists extracurriculars that have long TIMELINES, but without any particular "accomplishments/rewards/awards" associated-- like piano, (9y)-- for example. That communicates that the is a kid who has the skills to be responsible and commit seriously to an activity, even if it isn't one where they are in the spotlight. It's a good sign in term of college, because hard work OUT of the spotlight, (and without frequent trophies and award certificates) is ultimately going to be pretty important.

Something quirky and a little bit edgy also is helpful-- like actually COMPLETING a NaNo novel, building a prototype of something odd or strange, etc. is also a good sign, because it indicates intrinsic motivation. This tells the ad-coms and committees that this is a real person-- and that at least occasionally, this is a person who does what they want BECAUSE they want to do it, not because it will look good or score points with others.

There is fundraising on her list of accomplishments, yes, but it's low $ buy-in stuff (nothing pay-to-play on HER list), and it's going to local recipients, by and large-- it also fits with the rest of her obvious 'causes,' and makes sense of what matters to HER. She is clearly someone that simply likes helping other people with basic needs-- and doesn't need a lot of rewards to keep coming back for more.


Does that help any?


I truly think that our DD, had she been 16 and not 14, would have been a great fit at MIT. But for now, the state flagship is a better place for her.

I'll also add an insider trick here:


do NOT reveal everything on that vitae if there is an interview or a separate cover for merit scholarships.

Why not?

Well, because (assuming that you have a DEEP resume), you can hint at stuff that you DIDN'T feel the need to shout about when you give more info. My DD did this.

She didn't list starting her own profit-share business and being featured in the newspapers and local media as a ten year old. She didn't list her political activities at all. She didn't list her community service via piano performances at a local nursing home (which she's done for many years). She didn't list all the Shakespeare she's seen, nor the informal stuff that she's done just because she felt like it (developing a musical adaptation of Hamlet, for example, or composing, or game development).

Please note, though, that this is the kind of hat trick that ONLY an HG+ student probably can do-- because it requires a lot of time, and a lot of FREE time on top of a stellar transcript, and most high school students simply can't do it. You'll stand out as being even MORE interesting than they'd originally thought, and as modest and comfortable with your abilities.

Saying LESS than you could say is often a good strategy, by the way. Nothing irritates committees quite like wading through entries that are clearly inflated to sound better or more important, or the suspicion that many of them are DUPLICATES of the same basic entry...




So that is how to say "Hi! I'm the other 1%. You should offer me money."

"@ JonLaw — It's worth noting that depending on your income bracket and savings going to Harvard can be cheaper than going to Berkeley after financial aid is considered"

Yes, if you never save any money, these programs work well.

I'd have to look at the calculators again, but I'm guessing that if I sent my two kids to Harvard, by the end of it I would end up having spent about 30% of all of the money that I ever earned on private universities.

I will have to go back and look at it to figure out that one.

Meaning the estimated percentage of "all the money I ever earned".

@ HowlerKarma — Thanks for the informative comments.

I was admitted to Yale and u penn but went to a large state school that let me go for free. I had two activities on my application (yep, just 2). I love music and was involved in my school choir and a state touring group and had been volunteering with a non-profit since 6th grade and was a regional fundraising director. That was all that I had time for. Honestly, I do not see how the students today who have a gazillion things on their resume have time to become passionate about anything. Glad admissions were not as competitive in my day;).

The answer is they give up sleep, and downtime just hanging out with friends.

Or alternatively a person's passion lies in variety as did mine which meant I was in everything except sport or music. I have no plans to discourage DS if he continues to have broad interests.

Exactly, Zen-- and this is (I hope) obviously the route that my DD has taken. She loves the variety of things that she does. We feel that it is a bulwark against perfectionism, too, so there's no way that we're discouraging it.

My point is that students that are involved in a lot of activities are not the only ones who gain admittance to elite schools (while I am sure it doesn't hurt, as long as the activities are somewhat focused). It is ok if a student only does a couple of things as long as they do them well (along with great grades and high test scores). At both of the Ivey schools that I interviewed with (with alum's) I think the face to face was the most important factor. Once they narrow down the crowd it is really a matter of how much they like you, which is pretty much like everything else in life (at least in humanities and business). I would strongly suggest that students find and attend local events for more competitive schools they are interested in.