Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Aggression at home - I don't know what to do...

I am to my wits end with DS6.4. I am not sure this is school related or something else. He says he doesn't want to go to school because he doesn't learn anything. But when given the option to be home schooled, he doesn't like that idea either. I am hoping you can help me sort this out. Some background:

He tested as PG with no learning disabilities. Straight forward PG kid. He is at a private school since K accelerated a year He missed the cut off by 2 months but was still allowed early entrance. Currently in 1st grade. He is doing EPGY instead of the regular math curriculum daily in school. He also does not have to do the phonics work for reading and does research on a topic that interests him instead. I am also giving him 8th grade spelling words (that he gets tested on) and more advanced worksheets to work on when he finishes his school work.

Seems to me the situation is pretty good. We had a blow up about the phonics book that he had to do at the pace of the rest of the class. I spoke to the teacher and said he didn't have to do it. I thought that would make things better. But still, he comes home and is AGGRESSIVE, and violent. Hitting, scratching, using bad language towards us etc. It is almost like any little thing triggers a rage attack. Mornings, although not all the time are bad. He doesn't want to get ready for school, and doesn't want to go. He is too busy working on whatever project he is involved in. (The other morning I found him and his 4 year old brother "working" at 4 AM)

I am sure many of you have experience with aggressive behavior resulting from frustration with school. But is that really WHAT it is?? From your experience, when this was going on, what was the reason and what did you do??

Thank you for reading. I am in desperate need of help. I feel like I am walking on eggshells with him. Just waiting for him to explode.

A couple of thoughts.
Can your tester recommend a professional for you to consult with?
Is it possible he is unable to articulate what is bothering him? In one instance, it was the phonics (which may have been s-l-o-w and mind-numbingly repetitive). Does he understand that when he shares what is bothering him, you can help (but that acting out does not help).

Are there sports or martial arts classes he could attend to help with self-discipline while burning off excess energy?
While the approaches in many parenting books may not apply to gifted kids, A Parent's Guide to Gifted Children has information on an approach to setting limits which many find helpful. Love & Logic may also be worth looking in to.

Wishing strength for your family as you deal with this.

When my DD was subjected to a toxic school experience in which she was frustrated because her needs weren't being met, and she was spending all day trying to be well-behaved despite her frustration, that led to explosive and violent behaviors at home... with the exception that hers was inwardly directed (hitting head on wall, blaming self) rather than outwardly directed. With a different personality, I could easily see her going the other way. That's how I did it at that age.

One thing that stands out to me is that your DS is doing a lot of things on his own. Is that coming at a social cost? My DD, for example, was given time to do math on the computer in K when the rest of the class was doing a group activity with the teacher on the promethium board. DD is extremely social, so she was caught between doing something interesting, and doing something with other children. She was forced to choose between two of her fundamental needs.

In our DD's case, the situation began when she began attending school, the behaviors started gradually escalating the longer she was there, and our investigation revealed the many ways that we, with our unique insight into our DD's personality, was being harmed by her daily school experience. Once we pulled her out and homeschooled, we began to see a reduction in the negative behaviors. So yes, in our case we're 100% sure it was all school-related.

So my advice would be, if the situation only began when he started school, and it's been gradually escalating, then it's time to do a thorough investigation of what he's experiencing in his school day. I'd look at all factors... how much work he's doing and what kind of fit... how much time he has to himself, and what he's allowed to do while waiting... how the relationship is working with the teacher... how he's getting along with other students...

Thank you so much for helping me. I really appreciate it.

Dude, as far as socially, he does not have a big need for it. He does not ever ask to have a friend over. He says he likes being with his 4 year old brother the best, because he understands him. I think he has learned "to fit in" at school although his teacher said he sometimes stands by himself on the playground and "is not on the playground anymore, but somewhere else". He hates the super hero games the boys like to play at this age.He finds it ridiculous. He does love playing tag, so when they do that he is OK joining in. That being said, I am one of the homeroom mom's and spend a lot of time observing him. The kids adore him and respect him tremendously. Something I know goes on frequently is that they all ask him questions. How to spell words, calculate math etc. He has expressed a frustration with this and says "I can't concentrate". If the teacher hears this going on she will tell the kid asking to ask her instead. But most of the time she doesn't even know.

He says he LOVES art and PE, is OK with music but hates reading class. He also says he doesn't learn in science. I am not too concerned about science as of yet, but the reading class is my biggest concern. English class is also one he doesn't like but he is allowed to work ahead in the grammar book and finished last semesters book 2 months before the rest of the class. He would then do the worksheets I provided.

Reading class is everyday for 1 1/2 hours. I can see that being torture even though she lets him research for part of it. They read books like "horrible Harry" and talk/write about it. He is not interested in that level reading. Thinks it is silly.

He is in Karate once a week and basketball or soccer as well during the season.

Portia, I think he doesn't want to home school because he LOVES his teacher. And she really IS a gem. I also feel he wants to be there for art and PE. We have thought about partial home schooling. More about that later.

Indigo, yes we are in contact with a psychologist specializing in gifted kids. We are trying to get an appointment ASAP but she has been out of the country recently. I am hoping she can get some insight as to what he really is feeling. And you are right, I feel he has a very hard time expressing what goes on inside of him. I think he just can put his finger on it and verbalize it to us. I am assuming this might get better with age. I also don't want to ask him leading questions when trying to get him to open up. Putting words in his mouth.

Dude, I think you are spot on. We need to investigate what is really going on at school. My instinct tells me he need to be away from the kids for reading class. It seems when I go to the school to do his EPGY math with him, he comes back to the class refreshed and happy. I am wondering if getting a break from the kids in the class, all the questions and possibly the feeling of not having anything in common with them recharges him. Along with the fact that he is highly stimulated from the EPGY math. Today I will ask him about his friends. From what I know kids like him are not really "peers" with kids their age. He might just get drained being around them for too long. Any thoughts?

He has always been a loner so not being in class with the kids would suit him well. At this point I am thinking hiring a mentor, maybe a retired teacher OR someone tutoring the kids that are behind at the school. They could work with him for the first 2 classes of the day in a separate room. Do the school curriculum but at HIS pace. Work with him on creative writing, which he loves and is EXTREMELY advanced in. It is his passion. Obviously there is no REAL creative writing instruction going on in 1st grade.

Thank you for brainstorming with me. I already feel better...:-)

Dude,I forgot to say that he is violent toward himself as well. Hitting himself in the head, biting himself and cutting his hair off once. He also puts himself down, just like your daughter. Mostly though it is taking it out on us. He is not too bad to his brother anymore. He used to be, to the point that I didn't want to leave them alone in fear of him snapping. I think he feels so close to his brother now that he is a bit older. He is his best friend.

My very happy, social and compliant boy hits out in his own way by calling me the "meanest mom on earth" - a phrase he picked up at lunch time in his school. He does not know that he is underchallenged, is very affectionate to his teacher and friends and hence feels bad to complain about school. He has to control his behavior all day long and his mini explosions come around bedtime. His subconscience tells him that he is not happy and he blames me for his unhappiness by saying that.
He is accelerated at school (not enough). At home we provide him all that we can to help him.
Would a grade skip help your son? My DH is vehemently against grade skips because he has concerns about maturity and handwriting requirements. So, we chose to go with acceleration. It alleviates some of the problems but not all. I think that if you can either skip a grade or use that mentor/tutor's help for reading class it should help somewhat.
Sometimes, kids don't understand the options that are available to them. They can only relate to the environment they are currently in and not some hypothetical better learning environment. My DS refused a mid-year transfer to a private school last year because he wanted to attend all the birthday parties of his classmates. So, we waited and changed schools at the year end. Now, he says that he wishes he had changed schools earlier. I am wondering if you can try homeschooling him during springbreak and see if he likes it enough to consider it ...

I have been so on the fence about what to do about dd6 and wondering if I was crazy to think she was gifted, even >MG, but these anecdotes are making me think it is worthwhile to test this spring rather than waiting another year or two even if might be more accurate in the future. I had been attributing some of the breakdowns to adoption related issues but I do think some of i tis due to poor academic fit, psychomotor OE, and the amt. of effort it takes for her to conform at school.
Re: grade skips, I think the Iowa Acceleration Scale is a good tool to remove bias and see if the kid is a good candidate or not. Sometimes maturity improves when around older kids.

I recommend The Explosive Child. It took a long time to sink in, but it has totally changed the way we parent.

Have you seen the recent thread on deliberate self harm resources?

Might the teacher accept a plan in which your child self-selects alternate books from home, library, etc, and reads those?

Exactly! Reading books about similar situations can provide bibliotherapy, helping a child see their situation within the pages of a book they are reading. Gifted Kids' Survival Guide for gifted kids under age 10, A Wrinkle in Time, Roald Dahl's Matilda, Lisa Rivero's Planting Words... kids may find situations which parallel their own life and develop the specialized vocabulary to describe nuanced feelings. Hoagies Gifted Education Page has a great reading list... Some of my best friends are books is a helpful guide.

Dude, as far as socially, he does not have a big need for it. He does not ever ask to have a friend over. He says he likes being with his 4 year old brother the best, because he understands him. I think he has learned "to fit in" at school although his teacher said he sometimes stands by himself on the playground and "is not on the playground anymore, but somewhere else". He hates the super hero games the boys like to play at this age.He finds it ridiculous.


Oh, this just kind of makes me sad, though-- it truly sounds as though the schooling situation is NOT granting opportunities to bridge the gap between your son and his agemates.

While he might not have high social needs (I have one of those, too) it's different than having your NOSE rubbed in the fact that you're a space alien relative to everyone else. Over and over and over.

Have you talked to him about what HE thinks homeschooling would be like? Is there another option where you live? (Charters, virtual school, etc.)

It's possible that a virtual school could work for him. I recommend that only with some reservations and a lot of caveats for PG kiddos, but it does allow for more appropriate rate, peer interactions, etc. while preserving the ability to BE one's chronological age something more like full-time.


I'd dig a little deeper into what is eating at him about the current schooling situation before making decisions. It's possible it's something specific that he hasn't told you about (bullying, an adult who is singling him out, etc).

Our DD8 is good as gold at school and a terror at home. I think holding it together at school is a HUGE part of why she lets loose at home. Not sure what the solution is and not even really sure if it is better this way. I think I'd much rather her act out at home than in public, but is that a good or bad thing and should I feel that way...don't know.

Her GIEP meeting is coming up soon, so maybe if we can get some accommodations and enrichment in place at school she will not be so frustrated.

It does sound hopeful that your school is willing to try different things. Maybe it needs to be more or something different. What does your son tell you he wants? (barring staying home and just working on what he wants to) What would his ultimate day at school be like? How can the adults in his life make things better for him within reason?

DD(4) in montessori does this too. It is so out of hand at times I feel like we should take her to someone for help! She goes to a PT/OT office for handwriting (she doesn't actually go to PT/OT, just for handwriting) and they have suggested I get her tested for Sensory Processing issues. I really think it is more that she is holding it together at school only to let loose at home. Her teachers say she is exhausted - so exhausted - at the end of the day that I have to pick her up after lunch. When she gets home she goes crazy with energy. We are going to try to have her stay after spring break.

I am thinking this is common in every kid. Has anyone asked friends who are not GT?

ETA: sorry I didn't read in detail. I do think its not typical to be hurting himself. I DO think it is typical to be so wound up and hyper that you hurt (to some extent) siblings ect. in their state. Of course I wouldn't condone it... it just think that is pretty common. Hurting himself... that would be troubling. I agree, ask for a referral from whoever tested him.

This does happen with kids who are not GT also - but the thing I'd watch out for is the degree to which it's happening, especially with a preschool aged child who can't perhaps communicate adequately what the root cause of the frustration is. It's easy to attribute it to lack of challenge for a highly gifted child, but it could also be one of many other things going on, possibly including being mistreated by staff at the school. Hopefully it's *not* that, but we had it happen with one of our dds, and I so wish I'd been able to somehow find out about it sooner than I did.

The thing about this type of acting out at home when a child is holding themselves together during the day at preschool (or later on in school) is - there is usually a reason they are having to hold themselves together, and it's important to figure out what's going on.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Re: the self-injury... a friend's daughter did this until her curriculum was enriched and she was no longer stressed from boredom at school.

You mentioned your DS loves PE - what about sensory integration issues? We are looking at sensory integration disorder for my ADHD dx DS (I said SIG from the beginning and now everyone else is finally catching up). The energy that he needs to expend holding himself together during school eventually runs out and once that 3:00 buzzer rings... he turns into a hurricane some days. The key difference is that he's not aggressive... granted he's not PG either, so he's likely not as frustrated as your DS.

Anyway, the school OT recommended exercises for him to do during the day (eg. wall push ups in the hallway) and on some days he asks repeatedly to do them because they help calm him down and focus him.

This article from the Davidson Database may be of interest? Gifted children with Asperger's

*hugs* You've gotten lots of great advice here so far!

Honestly, it doesn't sound like your son is being challenged in school at all. Your afterschooling (spelling and worksheets) might help a bit, but he's probably exhausted from holding it in at school all day. Has he requested this extra work, and is he willing to do it?

When DS was having problems in school and refusing to do schoolwork and homework, it was easy for the teachers to say stuff like, "This should be easy for him, if he just sat down and did it." So here's the scenario I came up with:

Imagine you have to sit in training meetings all day long, with all the lectures and work geared for someone 50+ IQ points below your own. You aren't allowed to pull out your phone to check email or FB. Mostly you don't get to choose the training topics. For a time each day you get to split off from the group to do some work more suited to your level, but then it's back to the group. There is a lot of repetition and busywork. And in order to do some of the more interesting work, you still have to finish the boring stuff. Every. single. day.

You'd probably go nuts from boredom and frustration. And if you're 6, you might not have the language to express, or even the life experience to know, what is wrong and why. But *something* is wrong, something needs to change, and you've got to express it somehow.

DS was having these problems, except instead of waiting until he got home, he misbehaved at school. He hated having to go to school, and resented me and DH for making him go. We pulled him out of school last spring. Homeschooling has been the best decision we made, and DS's behavior has improved immensely.

Wow! Thank you everyone. I really appreciate all the feedback. Makes me feel like I am not alone.

As far as SPD or Asbergers, those have both been shot down as possibilities. He has some dramatic sensory issues with sound as a 3-4 year old but seems to have learned how to deal OR he has somewhat grown out of it. His tantrums do mimic something a kid on the spectrum would do but all we have heard from the testers, experts and psychologist is that he does not have any issues. He is just a PG kid. Seems the issues so far has been related to overexcitabilities.

I also forgot to mention that the week before Christmas and all of the 3 week Christmas Break he was an angel. No issues. He was like a different child., Happy, easy going and no intensity. He says it was because it was Christmas and he was excited, but he was also out of school....
This tells me though that this is not a constant state of mind for him, but related to outside sources. Sometimes I worry about a mental issue with him but this kind of tells me it is not.....or?

I really believe you are right. I think it is school related. I am planning on talking to him over the weekend, in small bits here and there. He teds to shut down if I push too much. Tonight I asked about his friends, trying to figure out if there is an issue there. He said he likes his friends and that they are "kind of funny". He also said he feels older than them when they are doing school work but not in PE,music and art. When I asked what he would miss the most if he didn't go to school anymore he said his teacher and friends. That made me happy. Seems he might have some kind of working relationship with his friends and I don't think there is an issue there. I will ask about other teachers tomorrow, and also about how the perfect day would look to him while in school. Like someone said, I think the PERFECT day would be for him to stay home and do exactly what he wants...not an option though.

KnittingMama, what a great scenario you came up with. You are spot on. Today when I picked him up he asked to go for a run when we got home "to get rid of some stuff inside". I asked what kind of stuff, but he couldn't tell me. So I think it is like you said, he doesn't know WHAT he is feeling and how to put a name to it. We talked about different feelings and he came up with it probably being frustration. I thought it was a good step for him to recognize that he had to vent though. Running is something he loves to do and I feel it is really healthy for his state of mind.

Again, thank you all so much for helping with this!

First of all--my heart goes to you! It sounds super stressful! Spring break is coming up... how about having a week of "pretend homeschooling" to see how he would do? Someone suggested that you talk to him about how homeschooling could be, and I second that. Once you have the discussion, have a trial run during spring break and see how both of you like it.


Another suggestion is to check out some basic behavioral things or programs to use on a consistent basis. I love the "love and logic programs". He must be very frustrated-- to be violent. So it is very important that you have all the tools to help him learn a healthier manner of expressing his frustration.

I hope things improve soon. `

I did quite recently (in my 30s) have to sit through a number of 2 week courses aimed at people with low average to average IQs. I did Sudoku and crosswords during lectures and reminded myself it was only 2 weeks. I also got a couple of migraines and took a day off. I was still very irritable. I also get really grumpy if I have to be in a noisy environment and/or engage with people too long.

It is easy to imagine such a situation making a small child violent. Ds4 has the same problems but I am a sole parent and have to work. I try to arrange some periods where I know he willhave quiet and solitude by sending him to a neighbour instead of childcare.

I found myself in a couple of those kinds of classes in my mid 20's. In one of them, I went full-on class clown. In the other, I spent most of my time correcting the instructor's bad code so we could get on with it.