Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Recommended Resources piano works-- need some ideas

My DD is a piano student. She's easily late intermediate level-- but she is also easily frustrated and gets BORED with works long before she has perfected them, generally speaking. Due to her suspected CTD, she can't really play for a LONG time, and her hands are very very small, so her reach is about a 10th even with her very long fingers.

She's also not 100% on board with the traditional western European classical idiom.

She doesn't necessarily like to PLAY what she likes to listen to, but loves jazz, swing, and folk music, particularly that from E. Europe.

Thus far, her very favorite piano study works have been:

Bartok's Romanian Dance suite (Op 56, I believe)
Mozart Rondo Alla Turca
Bach 2-part Invention No. 8
Debussy's Golliwog's cakewalk (though she dislikes most of the French Impressionist composers)
Joplin's Maple Leaf Rag
Kabalevsky-- assorted miniatures

She also loves to play show tunes and tweak/arrange/improvise on the fly.

What I'm after is more of that E. European folk idiom written for keyboard-- in miniatures/suites. She loves that stuff, and it definitely helps her technique. Miniatures are short enough that she doesn't get bored before she's extracted learning from them. She likes pretty high tempo works-- no minimalist, dreamy stuff for her. She can play Debussy or Satie to make you cry, but she just yawns (which really ruins the effect for her audience, I must say).

Russians? I'm just not familiar enough with this body to pick out miniatures that might appeal to her, and her teacher really isn't either (being an early music specialist herself).

You might want to look into the Royal Conservatory of Music piano studies books for grades 6-9. The pieces are generally short and have a higher proportion of 20th century and international works. I'll think on the composers. I tend to be in that dreamy Debussy category, so my tastes are quite different than your DD's.

DS likes these
http://www.boosey.com/shop/prod/Papp-Lajos-22-Little-Piano-Pieces/722726
although I guess they'll be no technical challenge (late intermediate means nothing to me and I want to ask "what's that in ABRSM grades" but your list gives me some idea, and these are easier!)

You didn't mention Mikrokosmos, but that must have been an oversight?

Kodaly 7 pieces op 11?

Colinsmum-- YES!! That's exactly the kind of thing she's after. Not an oversight, I'm just really that clueless.

I'm a woodwind specialist, so piano repertoire is essentially unknown to me. My only real knowledge of keyboard works is baroque and onward in the western European tradition.

She's currently working on a Chabrier piece-- number seven. Danse villageoise from the Pièces pittoresques. Hard to say whether she'll be interested enough to work on any of the others when she's done with that one.

She's also going to tackle the Formenti arrangement/suite from Weill's Threepenny Opera; Sechs Songs aus der Dreigroschenoper. I suspect that this is a bit of a reach for her, but she DOES love the music, which is a potent motivator.


Oh, she also LOVES to play Tom Lehrer. (This should come as no surprise to anyone who has read in the Quirky Anecdote thread. )

Tons and tons of public domain music free to download here: http://imslp.org/

You can also search composers by nationality! Let her browse...

Hi, HK. Sounds as if your DD is quite accomplished. My kid is a pianist too. Here are some ideas for shorter pieces at about this level, quite melodic (not all are Eastern European, but your DD actually seems to have wide-ranging tastes). The list is, roughly speaking, from more to less difficult. These are from my kid's repertoire, so you're getting HIS teacher's advice indirectly! :-)

Mendelssohn, Hunting Song, Songs Without Words, Op. 19 No. 3
Chopin, Mazurka in B Flat Major, Op. 7 No. 1
Kabalevsky Prelude No. 8, Op. 38
Chopin, Nocturne in E Flat Major (Op. 9 No. 2)
Chopin, Waltz in B Minor, Op. 69 No. 2
Mendelssohn, Venetian Gondola Song, Op. 30 No. 6
Chopin, Prelude in B Minor, Op. 28 No. 6
Chopin, Prelude in C Minor, Op. 28 No. 20

Chamber music: Grieg, Anitra’s Dance from Peer Gynt
Dvorak, Slavonic Dance No. 2 in E Minor

Can I ask what about piano your DD finds boring? I'm not fighting the question -- just the opposite. Solo piano at a high level is really difficult. It takes a long time to learn pieces, and it can be lonely just polishing something for a recital. Piano competitions, in our experience, aren't social or particularly "fun." So I'm wondering (as I do for my own kid) whether joining a piano trio or quintet might be useful -- or accompanying, say, a violinist. My kid has done this in the past but hasn't this year, and I think piano has been less fun as a consequence.

She has done some piano 4-hands with her teacher. Her favorites there have been some Vandall (modern) and the Grieg Norwegian dances and Peer Gynt selections.

I think she is simply not all that fond of piano to listen to...

and she prefers jazz and Broadway standards-- and she likes to improvise on top of the melody, if that makes sense. She loves Seussical and some modern pop standards which are amenable to this approach.

Mostly, as you say, it's the monotony of practicing rigorously to POLISH a work to perfection. I kind of hate to force this issue, truthfully, since I don't want to encourage that form of perfectionism in someone with such potential for it anyway, BUT... it means that she and her teacher often don't see eye to eye, and it turns practice into drudgery.

I could try playing with her. I play both violin and (with greater accomplishment) flute. I'm just not sure that she's that interested in what I tend to play.

If so, that indicates a real problem to me, because the primary reward for playing music is you get to produce something you enjoy listening to. So if she's not doing that, all her resistance is perfectly understandable.

Maybe let her try another instrument?

Then again, piano is soooooo adaptable to so many different styles of music, and that may be the real problem. Maybe find her some musicians with similar tastes to hers? Trading fours with other jazz musicians is a great way for her to push herself both technically and creatively.

How's your Ron Burgundy impression on flute?

I find her rejection of the more technical pieces in favor of improvisational music to be a positive development, because on a deeper level it appears to be a rejection of perfectionism and an embrace of just going with the flow. I think your fears of technical music feeding into her perfectionism are well founded, so I'd follow her lead on this one.

Thanks, Dude-- that's what has always sort of been in the back of my mind. LOL on the Burgundy...

We've insisted that she stick with piano because, well-- nine years this year. It has been very good for her to have something... anything... where her effort is pretty much directly proportional to results. It's been one of the few tools we've had in this direction. And-- senior in high school. So dropping it made no sense and would have been damaging in terms of college applications/scholarships.

But we have also truly tried to be flexible there and let her choose what kinds of things to work on, and we buy her music that SHE likes. She has a LOT of show tunes, Elton John, Billy Joel, etc. I've told her that she is certainly authorized to determine that she is done (or even taking a break) at the end of the school year.

She got a classical guitar for Christmas, and is eager to take lessons, but doesn't feel that she has the bandwidth for it currently. This summer, though.

I'd be interested to know how the piano is affecting the scholarship/application process, because depending on how that's going, there are different ways to go about it:

1) A music scholarship - your DD expects to use her music skills in school to help offset the costs of her education, much like one would use a sports scholarship.

In this case, a certain amount of push on the piano is certainly warranted, as those are competitive spots.

2) A bullet item on general scholarship and school applications - your DD will be indicating her musical skill as one of many reasons why she should be selected for attendance and competitive financial aid.

In this case, is there any reason to indicate that your DD is no longer actively pursuing the piano? And taking up a new instrument may even look better, because it indicates a more well-rounded child.

The results on guitar would still be proportional to effort, because even though she'll breeze through some of it conceptually, her fingers haven't yet been trained to do what her brain wants them to.

3) Length of time devoted to an activity.

Speaks to task persistence and also to a lack of dilettantism-- genuine commitment as opposed to "I did this to improve my resume," which is pretty important when you are looking at a kid that has almost TOO many EC's in too many different areas. She has a tendency to look "groomed/fake" on paper-- it's all genuine, but it comes off as a bit cliche.

Piano was definitely her choice of instruments-- she begged for lessons from the time she was 18mo, and I do think that she'll likely always play, but she's reached a level now where the gains are incremental, and so it's more frustrating than rewarding to "improve" her technique.

Her physique won't support more serious pursuit, probably-- and early arthritis is likely if she pushes much. So she has set aside her earlier plan to have music as a secondary major.

Re: Length of time - That's why I said there's no reason to tell the powers that be that she's not actively pursuing it any further. As you said, she'll likely continue to play, even if she's not pushing to improve her technique. As long as she still sits down at the piano as little as once a month, she can accurately say, a year from now, "I've been playing piano for the past 10 years, and I recently picked up the guitar, as well."

Even if she's pressed and has to say she'd ONLY done formal lessons for 9 of those 10 years, I don't know how that could be considered dilettante. I mean, she only needs to commit to her chosen school for four years.

Yes, we've agreed that she is going to discontinue lessons in June. This is a natural stopping point that makes sense to all three of us. She is still hunting for a guitar teacher.

I'm just looking for some of the little miniatures that she seems to actually LIKE working on so that she doesn't feel as though this last few months is either useless or torturous. Those Bartok pieces (Op 56) are the bomb for her, but she plays the entire set well enough that she could (IMO) probably play them at competition level NOW if that were her thing.

Hi, HK,

I don't know if this is helpful, but just in case…If your DD wants to include an Arts supplement on her college applications (which I gather for her are next fall?), perhaps a goal for the next couple of months would be to record the Bartok, when you and she feel she is ready. My kid is a few years away from this, but my understanding is that you attach the recording to the Common App, and that a good recording is a serious plus (it's evidence of achievement, after all) for someone who lists an instrument on their ECs, even if s/he doesn't want to major in music. The music departments listen to Arts Supplements, and so you get the benefit of an expert weighing in and saying, yes, this is serious accomplishment. Just a thought -- you may not want to do this, but if she is going to shift gears a bit soon, it might be nice (hey, even just for her, later on, if not for the colleges! :-)) to have a recording that captured this achievement. The Bartok stuff is HARD! :-)

She's already heading into college in Fall '14, but I'd like for her to start doing some recordings and just sharing them with friends. Most of her friends have no clue how well she plays. None. She's quite self-conscious.

I mean, she plays that Bach Invention 8 at about the clip that Andreas Schiff manages... and is self-critical that she doesn't play it as well as he does. Yes, this is crazy given that she practices about 2h a week total, but her standards are extreme even by a Perfectionist's worldview. Last summer she did an animated short video using the Prelude in C-- and I'm pretty sure that the judging team had no idea that it wasn't a recording that she ripped from somewhere else.

So I've encouraged her to record and create a private YT channel just for friends and family. Record some of her improv on it, some of the favorite works that she's done, etc. I think that she needs the feedback to realize that NO, most 'mediocre' 14yo pianists are not playing what she plays.

I'm not sure if you've heard of these guys, but if not, look for "Piano Guys" on Youtube. They have a lot of stuff there, some more/less appropriate to a pianist playing solo. If you find anything you like, they have links to where you can buy the sheet music.

I've been listening to them a lot lately, as DD9 now requires them to get through her ridiculous volume of low-value test-prep homework lately, and I think they make a lot of music that's a fair match for how you describe your DD's style.

Hmmm... Simple Gifts is nice enough, I suppose, but it needs some Disney and Jason Mraz to really make it go.

There's one called "All of Me" where a forearm smash is a legitimate piano technique, not a pro wrestling technique, and surprisingly doesn't sound at all like the wrestling move would feel.

Hat tip to aquinas, who turned me on to them to begin with.

GREAT tip-- thanks for mentioning them.

Howler Karma, I too played Invention #8 like that at about the same age. I gave up piano around the same time too. My parents were not supportive, totally checked out, so I quit to take up drums. I worked all summer to buy my first kit and taught myself to play. I was very self conscious about playing and very perfectionistic. I totally get where your daughter is at, but maybe a conscious break might be healthy and she could just mess around for a while and try again in 6 months or a year. Maybe she needs a drum kit??

Playing drums was very liberating for me and provided a healthy social outlet. I started a band at 16 and continuing playing off and on until I had my now 6 year old DS. I met a lot of really amazing people, learned a lot and had so many rich experiences. Or maybe electric guitar?
Also, I am quite self conscious playing for other people too. Hiding behind a drum kit was a way for me to play out, really get into the music, but feel more secure.

Playing piano can be a very solitary journey. My son just started a few months ago and is already playing Bach Minuets and has his first Piano Exam (his idea!) in a couple of months. He's very passionate about it so I think we are beginning a very interesting journey! He also messes around on drums and electric guitar. Due to my past I am hoping that keeping music open ended for him he won't get stuck like I did. His piano teacher also plays keyboards in two national touring bands. Has your DD thought of playing keyboards in a friends band or starting her own? It might freshen it up for her and take a little of the pressure off! And I love your idea of recording!

Good luck to her and you!

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