Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional OOD Placement

Talk to me about out of district placement, anyone who has gotten it or has any experience with it.

So, I am just plugging along documenting every time my son is denied his scribing or keyboard accommodations. To each of my complaints (documenting a denial of access to accommodations or a shaming for the need of the accommodations by teacher or staff) the principal always sends a long 'fluffy' email basically skirting the issue that my kid has been denied his accommodations and insisting the school is ever so "loving" and we must be lying. My attorney helps me each time - telling me don't let him push your buttons just document, document, document. We have a standard polite unemotional response mimicking the IDEA law and we just use that to document the incident. But I am wondering when should I start thinking about suing for OOD placement? Any thoughts, ideas?

I don't know. I really do not want him to have to go somewhere else but this school is just so frustrating. What I find most annoying is instead being more sympathetic and saying "we'll help," they insist that the incident(s) never happened. That we are lying/making it up (hallucinating it)... that the school is great and ever so "loving." I'd have more respect and more patience if they said something even remotely close to "we're sorry that happened, we'll talk to so-and-so and make sure they understand." But what I usually get is 'so sorry that you're having halluciations. I can assure you said teacher would never do such a thing. I talked to said teacher and the incident never happened. But your entitled to insane perceptions and we're sorry you and your kid have hallucinations. We hope you get better soon.'

Arrrrrg.

I don't have any experience with OOD placement - what does your attorney have to say about it? Is there a good school option that you've identified? Are there any other options within your district? When we were working with our advocate, she was able to give us advice on which in-district schools were invested in doing the right thing for sped kids and which schools (like the one we were in) were going to be like hitting a brick-wall head on for the entire time we were there.


I understand not wanting your ds to not have to go somewhere else, but I suspect he'll be *much* happier if you do find a different school for him. As I've mentioned here before, by the time our ds was in 4th/5th grade he was very aware that he needed help and accommodations and he was very aware that the school wasn't giving him what he needed and what he had an IEP set up in place to provide. I never ever talked to him about the difficulties I was having in advocating, but he was experiencing them first hand as the student who had needs that weren't being met. So by 5th grade *he* wanted to change schools. I can't tell you how much better life was once we were in a school where the teachers had respect of the students needs, where they listened to parents and where they were honest about what they could and couldn't do in the classroom (as well as being open and transparent with what they did do, and who followed through with requests from us to try accommodations etc).

It sounds like you're at the place where you are spending a huge amount of time and effort advocating, and you're not making equitable progress. You're at the point I'd jump ship. If you go for OOD placement, keep documenting.

Wishing you the best!

polarbear

I hear you. I reported DS's teacher at the time I pulled him out and the two people I was talking to pretty much dismissed everything I said, like I must be crazy. She could have gotten away with locking him in a closet all day and no one would have done anything about it. It's an "us vs. crazy parent" mentality. The teacher is always right. Whether they did end up talking to the teacher or reprimanding her in any way, I have no idea, but I'm sure now they are at least watching her more closely and hopefully things have improved for the remaining kids in the class. I don't know anything about OOD placement but you'd probably need a lot of "proof" to get anywhere with that.

We are effectively placed OOD.

I'll say (cynically) that it's often nowhere near as HARD to get an OOD placement if your child's needs are either expensive or disruptive, provided that your documentation supports those things as absolute needs in terms of accommodations, services, and placement.

The reason is that the home district that mistreats you is very probably secretly thinking "Don't go away mad... just... you know."


Well, OOD makes you someone else's PROBLEM.

Magical, once they realize that.

I'm guessing this question may be directed at least in part at me so I will fill you in on what I know. (Ironically I just had this exact conversation last night with another mom I know IRL...)

First - I don't recommend pushing for OOD prematurely. It's a big step that will cost the district big bucks so they won't entertain the request lightly. HK is correct - if your child is expensive or disruptive it will be easier. My DD was well behaved but I pushed and pushed not letting them off the hook as they screwed up so it ended up costing them as much to not meet her needs in her home school as it would cost them to meet her needs OOD. Same cost + meeting her needs + having me back off = an easy decision for them. Not sure how long it would have taken for a well behaved child without any of those 3 elements though.

Also as bad as our situation was it seems the horrible principal actually did us a favor in the long run. Her behavior was so egregious she really put the district in an indefensible position. The classroom teacher last year failed so completely in implementing the IEP it became very easy for us to show DD's needs were not being met in the home school. The district's total failure to follow through on the assistive technology also made it impossible to defend their position - they absolutely failed to provide a free and appropriate education.

One attorney I spoke to explained that generally speaking parents don't have a right to demand anything of their local public school - everything is up to the school board so parents have to go through them to effect any change. Parents with IEP's are the only ones who can make specific demands or have any hope of getting the district to pay for another setting. The bar to get them to do this, though, is pretty high. You can't just say you are not happy or want things done a different way. There has to be documentation that he has specific needs that are not being met. He is not entitled to a perfect education or even an outstanding education. He is entitled to an "appropriate" education. That is the important word to remember.

And also be careful about saying "no" things. This opens the door to them making the claim that you prevented all their attempts to provide this appropriate education. Our district's MO was to ask me how I wanted them to handle everything. And I mean everything. This put them in a position to say that anything and everything was being done according to the parents' request. Once I realized what they were doing I began responding by saying " You're the experts - I'm just a mom. You have been down this road before I haven't. What do YOU think you should do?" and then "You know - you're the ones with the federal mandate to provide an education. I'm just required to pay my taxes and present my child at the school house door. If you can't meet her needs in her local school it's up to YOU to find a way to meet those needs. Not me..."

My DD had an anxiety diagnosis and migraines that went off the charts when her needs were not being met so it was a pretty easy call in the end. The mom I talked to last night has a son whose behavior is spiraling to really bad levels so the district actually offered OOD. Even when it's a fairly easy call you still have to locate a school for him that will be able to meet his needs. That school also has to be willing to accept him and if you develop a reputation as a trouble maker the district could let potential placements know about this.

There's a lot to consider here. Hope this helped at least a little bit.

Even when it's a fairly easy call you still have to locate a school for him that will be able to meet his needs. That school also has to be willing to accept him and if you develop a reputation as a trouble maker the district could let potential placements know about this.

I agree.

NO WAY could we have found another B&M school OOD that would have "embraced" my DD. NO. WAY.

He has an IEP.


Well, I am not doing that. I am not merely unhappy or "just want something done differently." He has a documented specific need. He has Ehlers Danlos and dysgraphia. It's documented. Well documented. He also has an anxiety diagnosis. And yet he gets denied his scribing or keyboarding accommodations by certain teachers. Some teachers (there seems to be at least one every year) seem very reluctant for some reason to allow him to type or to get him a scribe. I am just wondering how long this gets to go on? And what can I do if this continues as a pattern? What is my recourse when I have medical documentation that he needs certain writing accommodations, he has an IEP that clearly spells out what accommodations he is to get and he gets denied them several times over the year, or discouraged from accessing them?

I do have another school in mind. It is private and expensive. It is specifically for kids like DS. I don't think we could afford it unless we got OOD.

It's not like I just bring this up because I have nothing else to do or something. I just can't imagine my child going on like this year after year - it's demoralizing

I dream of this - particularly I dream of a " school where the teachers had respect of the students needs" where they understand dysgraphia.


Yes. That is exactly where I am. I'd love to just send him to this school have in mind. It gets RAVE reviews. It seems transformative for kids with dysgraphia and dyslexia. The special ed attorneys I know say that is really where my kid needs to go... even for a couple of years.

I wish so much I could do it for my DS. But it is over $30,000 per year. It's also not close or convenient to our home. But the biggest obstacle is the price.


Thanks

Here is an idea....can you go to an office supply store and get a self inking stamp made that says...

scribe requested by ____________
scribing provided by ____________

And he stamps his work pages and initials the top line and the scribe signs the second line or he writes the word denied or none or draws a line or something.

GREAT idea Sweetie, and very to the point that I wanted to make. Irena, it occurs to me that while you have been documenting but the district has been counter-documenting.

Can you imagine it in court? You: "And on x date, Teacher Y again failed to provide a scribe for DS when requested." "But here we have Defense Exhibit 100, yet another email from Principal Depraved stating that the scribing DID happen." It strikes me that the district has faced this issue before and gotten some sneaky lawyer advice on how to avoid consequences for their IEP failures in court.

If your district is contesting that IEP violations are even occurring, your ability to get OOD placement on the basis of IEP violations is not possible. You need to devise a system, like the one Sweetie suggests or similar, that documents beyond question the facts that support your DS' inability to access education at this school. As long as the district can contest all of these violations, their willingness to agree to OOD placement seems highly unlikely to me.