Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments Stay in public school or change?

Hello, from NY. My 10 year old son skipped 1st grade. He is now in 6th grade, which is the start of middle school here. My district has only 50% of students going on to 4-year colleges. Heavier emphasis on team sports, and big time emphasis in supporting special ed needs. For gifted kids, in grades 4-5 there was a special pullout class, now nothing. For arts and music, funding and opportunities are very low. He is a gifted violinist as well. Thank goodness for his private lessons and performances outside of school.

DS easily aces all his classes, always top of class. Painfully bored and reads, reads, reads as soon as he's done with a worksheet waiting for everyone else to finish. The population here, most of them, seem to be focused on school sports, and that's the culture.

Nearby parochial and public schools don't seem to tailor academics to gifted children. Area college prep school ends the school day at 5:30 due to mandatory after school activities! Will not send him there.

I am trying to plan what to do for the rest of the grades. He looks forward to days off! Frequently complains that he "is not learning", or he "knows this already".

MAJOR CONCERN- Aside from us not clicking with the sports culture, there's another thing. Although it's nice to get top grades, he really doesn't have to study! Easily memorizes and understands concepts. I think it's important for children to know HOW to study hard, and what it is like to not know something and have to work hard to master it. Otherwise, how will he handle college work?

Thank you very much for reading.

Hi, Cee. We have been there, and so I sympathize with your dilemma. We left public school at the beginning of 5th grade in similar circumstances -- gifted pianist in a sports culture, public school concentrating resources on kids not able to pass the MCAS (Massachusetts NCLB test), and so on. The last straw was when the math agenda for the year was announced to be: "Let's be sure everyone knows their math facts!" My child was bored and frustrated, ready for pre-algebra but stuck in arithmetic -- ready for Shakespeare but stuck with Jerry Spinelli.

We had the same issue with local private schools. The pressure level is high, and they have mandatory (!) team sports. The model is that the kids get on the bus at 7 am and come home at 7 pm. It's a full-service model, but it didn't fit us (let alone the price tag of $30K+): the sports are (for us) not wanted, and the music offerings are often not strong, compared to our network of private teachers and regional orchestras -- so we don't need the school-based extras.

I homeschooled for the first two years. Then we found a gifted online program that works for us: it's distance learning that is geared to gifted kids (the school will let the kids accelerate to any degree and will customize content to enrich it). My kid took 9th grade Honors English (the Odyssey, Romeo and Juliet, lots of literary analysis and a number of 1500-word essays) in 7th grade and has never looked back. High-school Algebra in 7th grade was a good fit, too. The teachers, in our experience, "get" gifted kids -- the English teacher says she has elementary students reading and comprehending at the college level.

Caveats: Be careful with online schools. We tried a couple, and some of them are not good. There are terrible, computer-based curricula based on multi-choice work, and some of the schools put enormous time pressure on teachers, even prohibiting feedback! Our school is more expensive, has a longer history of distance learning, does not use multi-choice much, and has a special gifted division. Even so, our online school requires a lot of parental time (unless you hire tutors): the teachers are there to review and give high-level comments, not dig into every comma or discuss every reading. And, as with homeschooling, you have to deal with the social question, which isn't easy. My kid is in an orchestra (cello now) and takes a ton of music classes with others; also classes through our local library and language school.

So it isn't cheap or easy but it works for us. Good luck with your choice. I am sure others will offer alternatives too.

Thanks for excellent info! It's good to know there's someone in same situation a mine. The anxiety has just eased a bit. More questions:

The online programs, do the good ones provide an official transcript, for presentation to local high schools if parent wants to re-enter school system? Can public and online course be combined? For example, would child be in public school english class and then at home, take online Shakespeare course at same time? I don't imagine public school allowing child to skip their english class, but then again, I don't know.

What's the outcome for a gifted child who (for financial/social/other reasons) remains in mediocre public school system, but participates in outside weekend gifted programs, private music, selected activities outside school. But remains in "boring" 6-hour a day school system where the goal and culture is sports and not about excelling in personal strengths and going to a good 4-year college. Emotionally and mentally, is child still feeling good at the end? Or disillusioned and frustrated?

Will gifted child lose interest in "school"? Will study habits ever be learned to prepare for college?

Are the offered AP courses enough to challenge the child? Can a child who doesn't need to study in middle school to score high even do well on AP courses?

What gifted online program you are using?

Can someone please read and help re: my second post? thank you...

"What's the outcome for a gifted child who (for financial/social/other reasons) remains in mediocre public school system, but participates in outside weekend gifted programs, private music, selected activities outside school. But remains in "boring" 6-hour a day school system where the goal and culture is sports and not about excelling in personal strengths and going to a good 4-year college. Emotionally and mentally, is child still feeling good at the end? Or disillusioned and frustrated?"

Of course it depends on the particular child. If you want examples, I was in the public system in a rural area, and had very little practice with real effort or studying before the last year or two of high school. But I'm obsessive enough and detail oriented enough it didn't take long to adjust to an ivy level of work. My parents were academically inclined and home life had high intellectual expectations. It all went just fine, I have an intellectually stimulating career. I don't feel my rural school experience scarred me.

There were some subtle things. One was that in college I could not take as many fun classes as some of my friends, because I came in with no AP type credits, and in fact a poorer understanding of some basic subjects. So I did have to work hard especially at the beginning. That was not so bad though because many students were in that boat.

Another issue was that later in life I see my husband continuing to deepen relationships with some of his high school friends (he went to a private prep school), but I now barely know my high school friends (some of whom were just as bright as me but culturally different). We have drifted apart because our lives took such different paths after high school.

Another thing that I notice about my cultural background in general is I think I am a little too used to poverty. I have a ingrained sense that I must be fine because I have a job and make more than minimum wage. I tend to give too much away because I don't value my own time/money etc. Kids in my high school didn't actually think about the future much at all and I heard only vague comments from teachers about working hard to get a good job, and so on. I knew I didn't want to stay in the small town, but had no idea what was outside of it.

I find my husband far better at working with my son's school than me. I have an ingrained lack of ability to affect the system that numbered me and shuffled me through, whereas he was groomed to politely and repetitively make his views known until he got results (and that was before leadership classes existed). I was amazed going to college just how adult like my classmates were, my friends and I in high school were content to be kids, to not affect anything greater than plans for the weekend.

Still, probably an interplay of background and personality in those latter items. A kid with a more driven or confident personality would maybe not have been affected that way. I also did not attend weekend or summer gifted programs or anything else where I met other academically minded kids.

It depends on the kids but the gifted are quite well represented in minimum wage jobs, prisons and rehab clinics. Depression is very common too.

cee, there are online high schools that provide official transcripts, but whether or not those transcripts will be recognized for either placement or actual high school credit in a public high school is totally dependent on your local school district.

polarbear

If you are not ready to take the plunge and homeschool, then you might consider structuring some challenge into your DS' education. In math, there are individual competitions such as AMC8, AMC10 and AMC12. There are online resources (Khan Academy, AOPS, etc.) that your DS can utilized without offically homeschooling. In Reading/Language Arts, you can encourage him to read well outside the school curriculum and write more sophicated/in-depth responses than strictly required for school work. You can approach the school about possible acceleration in one or more subject. 10 is a wonderful age in that your DS should be able to learn a lot independently.

Likely; probably not.

Perhaps, but not in the right ways for most HG+ children; er-- well, that depends upon motivation.

Let me explain those answers.

1. Likely that school has ALREADY lost its luster, at least insofar as "learning" and any passion for doing so exists.

2. Why develop study skills if you never need them?? Study skills involve mostly drudgery and tedious activities, after all-- why WOULD you learn to do those things and make them practiced enough to be habits?? You don't. This is the single most compelling argument that I can think of for placing a child into appropriately challenging curriculum. Now, there are different TYPES of challenge, which brings me to my next answer for you.

3. AP. Ahhhh... yes, AP. Well, these classes (in general terms) are not that much HARDER in terms of content. Courses vary, obviously, but most of the difference between AP and "college prep" or "honors" high school coursework is: a) the volume of work to be gotten through-- I estimate that the volume is between 125% and 200% of a regular high school class, depending upon the AP course, and b) externally controlled syllabi, scope and sequence for the courses.

My DD has found AP courses to be QUITE useful to her. They move at a faster pace, which is good. The demand on her is closer to being appropriate as a result. In other words, for her, AP classes are about as appropriate as regular high school coursework is for bright kids. It's not terribly arduous, but it does require time-management skills, if nothing else. The quality also seems to be slightly better than the average offerings otherwise (though that may well be a function of individual schools and teachers).

4. Motivation. Well, at least with AP, there is some challenge other than earning 100%. Keeping up with the volume requires some attention to be paid to the class. The real question is whether or not it's enough to prove motivating to an individual student.

I'd ask (as a parent) what my child does when placed under more appropriate academic load-- does s/he seek to AVOID challenge? Or to embrace it? How does that manifest (either way)?