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Joined: Sep 2007
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I wasn't sure where to put this, since it isn't necessarily GT specific. But for any extroverts out there (You know who you are! <smirk>) trying to deal with introverted kids, I thought I'd pass this article along. http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200303/rauchIt does a pretty good job of explaining us, I think. And it's funny. I loved the Sartre quote: "Hell is other people at breakfast." LOL!
Kriston
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OH OH OH yes! That is sooooo me "Hell is other people at breakfast!"
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Interesting read, but it seems that he has defined the classic sales person as extrovert and the analyst as introvert. And of course he pounds the table that introverts are smarter but extroverts make all the money.
I truly admire the "salesperson" (including many politicians) who can go out there and play the game but I am not sure that is the only extrovert personality. I think there are extrovert personalities that do require downtime and also have disdain for the masses. Just because one is an extrovert, doesn't mean you love people. And there are introverts that are the shy, reclusive types, with not great social skills.
Black, white and shades of grey.
Ren
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Dazey: OTOH, perhaps a misanthropic cannibal would say that "Heaven is other people FOR breakfast." <smirk> Interesting read, but it seems that he has defined the classic sales person as extrovert and the analyst as introvert. And of course he pounds the table that introverts are smarter but extroverts make all the money.
I truly admire the "salesperson" (including many politicians) who can go out there and play the game but I am not sure that is the only extrovert personality. I think there are extrovert personalities that do require downtime and also have disdain for the masses. Just because one is an extrovert, doesn't mean you love people. And there are introverts that are the shy, reclusive types, with not great social skills.
Black, white and shades of grey.
Ren Well, by definition, being an extrovert means that you are *recharged* by people. I don't think he really means that *all* extroverts love *all* people *all* the time, any more than he's saying that all introverts hate people and never, ever want to be with people. Certainly the article oversimplifies a bit by breaking it down into strict introvert and extrovert categories. Most people are a little of both, so this binary isn't really accurate. But as one orientation or the other tends to dominate in a given person and as this is a SHORT article, not a dissertation on the topic, that seems to me to be a fair simplification to make. As for the analyst/salesperson stereotypes, I think he's arguing against them, saying that introverts AREN'T the stereotype. He makes the point that introverts can be great in a presentation before a big group or one-on-one, and I don't think that's stereotypical analyst behavior--the stereotype is that analyst types are unable to function socially at all. He talks about how negative the adjectives used to describe introverts are when compared to the ones used for extroverts. I think he's saying that this characterization of introverts is inaccurate and unfair. He doesn't say that introverts can *never* be shy, just that one should not *assume* that shyness is why introverts are quiet or prefer their alone time. Introvert and shy are not the same thing is the point there. I think you're also taking seriously some things that were intended to be tongue-in-cheek. Like the money thing. The author isn't arguing that extroverts make all the money; he's (humorously) criticizing a book that claims they do. Big difference! And usually when he is overstating a bit, he's exaggerating for comic effect. Frankly, I think you've rather missed the point of the article. <shrug> Luckily, that doesn't really matter. It's a "just for fun" thing, supposed to make people smile.
Kriston
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Oh my goodness Kriston I laughed sooooo hard while reading this article!!!!!!!!!!! "introverts are people who find other people tiring" Oh YES!!!!!! "[introverts] tend to think before talking, whereas extroverts tend to think by talking, which is why their meetings never last less than six hours." I've been to a few of those meetings - arrrrrghhhhh!!!!! "...when perhaps an Introverts' Rights movement has blossomed and borne fruit, it will not be impolite to say "I'm an introvert. You are a wonderful person and I like you. But now please shush.""Love it!!!!! So glad to know that I am just misunderstood!! ROFL!!!!!!!!!!
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I smiled but moreseo because he makes an argument like DH.
Just where I am today, but what is a day without Kriston's judgment.
Ren
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Thanks Kriston, I also enjoyed that article. Interesting discussion too. I think there is a somewhat false perception that introverts couldn't possibly be socially gifted also. I so related to the author, he was speaking my language! I was very good in sales, but it wore me down quite a bit. I would guess most people have me pegged as extrovert, simply not so! I have also been thought of as arrogant and aloof, but it's usually a certain personality type that I tend to rub the wrong way. And I've always gotten the comments: "what's wrong? are you okay?" when I'm quieter. Because I can talk ad nauseum and people sometimes expect me to always be the entertainer/life of the party, they can easily misinterpret my need to wind down quietly. It used to bother me a lot. Now only just a little bit.
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Me, too, 'Neato. All of the above. If I had a dime for every time someone said "You should be in sales," I wouldn't need to be in sales. But the thought makes me break out in hives! No thanks! Too many people! And Wren, I only responded to *your* judgements--politely and logically, I might add. If you don't want me to respond, then don't start the argument. <shrug> I mean, you have to know I'm not going to let you treat a humor article that I have recommended as serious and flawed without my responding, right?! Certainly you're entitled to your opinion, but I'm also entitled to defend the piece. It's the way of the world, my friend, way of the world...
Kriston
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Yes, just a good bit of fun. I need all the chuckles I can get. When you say, "this is just the kind of day I'm having". I was curious, what do you mean? You are having a bad day? A jaded day? A grouchy day?
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Great article! I enjoyed it very much. I'll have to send it to DH!
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Is he an "inny" or an "outy," Lorel?
Kriston
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Great article!!! I loved the humor too. I could so identify with it. I particularly liked the comment about being an introverted female in the Midwest! LOL!!
Although, while extroverts were being described as yappy, hyper little puppies, I had the distinct feeling that I was being described as a potted plant. Care instructions on how to keep your fern happy and healthy� feed it regularly, stand it in a corner, and leave it alone.
Hummm� (worried frown) Maybe I am a potted plant?
I do believe in shades of gray, though. I�m a terrifyingly shy person who freezes up in a large group of people (even a social group, not just in a presentation). I had to teach sometimes as a graduate student and the nervousness that it induced was awful. But get me frustrated and upset about the state of gifted education and I start thinking about running for the school board or marching up to the state capital and demanding change. Maybe the secret to social involvement or overcoming shyness is merely finding something that you strongly believe in.
Mom to DS12 and DD3
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If you know Jonathan Rauch, it was serious article. This is part of his faith, next to his stand on gay marriage.
Ren
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I've never heard of Jonathan Rauch before. I could therefore take the article on its most superficial level. One of the rare times where ignorance is truly bliss.
ebeth
Mom to DS12 and DD3
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Huh? His faith contains introvert/extrovert dogma?!
Whatever...
Kriston
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Sorry, just the mood I was in yesterday. Nothing to do with this, just the kind of people. Long story, my apologies for taking out here.
Ren
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No worries, Ren. Glad you mentioned what was up. Hope you find this a safe place to share. Working, parenting, wife-ing, it can all add up sometimes, eh? Hope you have a good day.
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Kriston, DH is WAYYYY introverted. That's why you may not see him much at upcoming events. He'll be hiding out as much as possible. He came to me after reading this article, and said, "Now do you get me?" LOL, I am a borderline innie/outie and can see both sides, but he rarely gives me credit for it. From his point of view, I am a wild extrovert, despite the fact that I quite enjoy being alone at times, and do need to recharge after a lot of social activity.
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LOL! Sometimes I think that being on the border is the hardest. You feel drawn to being social, but you are made exhausted and cranky by the exercise. I have a love/hate relationship with socializing. Can you tell?
Kriston
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Too funny!!! (Although I think the Sartre quote is a misquote (wonk-alert here)I am pretty sure that it's just
L'enfer, c'est les autres. No need for breakfast...
I am feeling awfully smart in these forums now. I wear glasses, have severe food allergies and am an introvert, therefore I must be pretty clever!
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