Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Highly gifted vs prodigy...how to tell the differe

Well, that is the reality not only at prep schools, but also at private colleges.

More and more UMC students are being locked out by pricing.

My personal prediction is that ultimately, this is going to create a system whereby private college on a resume indicates either wealthy family or SES< LMC.

Yes to your first question, but your second question overstates things. Suppose that Exeter went from 47K but need-based to 35K flat. Since there is a demand curve for any good, including private school, there are well-off families (earning say $250K) who would pay 35K but won't pay 47K. I did not say it is "impossible" for the parents to pay 47K.

I'm confused. You're saying that the school shouldn't offer aid to people who can't afford $35,000? Or it should still offer aid to people who can't afford this lower sum?

Let's put this thread back into some perspective and context.

Harvard (est. 1636 - oldest university in US) and Boston Latin (est. 1635 - oldest public school and grammar school in US) were originally, primarily established as a training ground for the ministry and thus an educated populace since books were not readily available or accessible. Wealthy merchants contributed to both of these institutions due to the overall benefits to society at large. Bright, poor boys who qualified based on their talents attended these schools and were supported. For many years, it was no different at many boarding schools in New England, including Exeter, or other universities, including other ivies.

Schools, such as Juilliard, were established for different reasons than the ivies or boarding schools such as Exeter. Juilliard was founded in 1905 because the US lacked a premier music school and many US students were going to Europe. Juilliard (and Vanderbilts) bequeathed a substantial amount of money for the advancement of music in the United States for the school. Juilliard wouldn't have been created IF exclusive boarding schools or other schools supported such training - but they did not.

Remember, this thread is about prodigies. Juilliard attracts prodigies because it's one of the few schools in the country where they can receive appropriate world-class musical training. Not everyone is a prodigy there, but they probably have a disproportionate just based on the fact that Juiliard is a singular type of place for such unique training. You don't go to Exeter or Eton for classical musical training; you go to Juilliard! And IF you're a child prodigy, you tend to go early too.

I'm sure there are various ranges or levels of prodigies like there is with giftedness. But if you're talking the extreme end, this is very small number of the population - perhaps fewer than the number of pg kids and/or those in DYS. It's not like Exeter or other boarding schools are getting flooded by them. Hardly.

Juilliard, for example, wanted to train Marvin Hamlisch to be the next Vladmir Horowitz and was pretty bent on it. They recognized his amazing talent. Hamlisch, however, didn't want to be the next Horowitz but he accepted that he could learn how to play well at Juilliard and then later on apply such training to things he wanted to do - http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmas...rn-between-classical-and-pop-music/2782/

Hamlisch was declared a child prodigy at 4. His father was a accordionist and bandleader so there was a genetic component with music. The family also lived within a relatively short distance to Juilliard too so they didn't have to move across the country either. He is one of only thirteen people to have been awarded Emmys, Grammys, Oscars, and a Tony (those four together are known as an EGOT). Extreme talent here.

FYI - there's a children's book by him, Marvin Makes Music. NOTE: Marvin never wanted to practice either.

Following up and observing on cdfox's post--


Has the mission of such institutions drifted so substantially from that founding vision that "charity boys" (or girls) are no longer seen as a valid part of the model?

This is an honest question.

Not all prodigies do come from affluent-enough homes.


Perhaps the ethical onus is on such singular institutions to make cost irrelevant to the most worthy (and the most needy-- in terms of the training, I mean) potential students. And perhaps that explains the rationale for institutional mission drift at places like Exeter and Harvard?

Don't know, just speculating.

After all, in 1700, there weren't that many places to get a college education. So it would have been the equivalent of Julliard today, maybe Julliard in the 1950's, actually, since there are other prestigious conservatories now.

Er-- okay...

well, back (kind of) on-topic after that detour...



Oh, it's okay, though-- because the looming twin threats of hunger or exposure are pretty potent motivators, all things considered.


This, IMO, is the completely rational and evidence-based portion of the argument AGAINST subsidies for "low" income persons. Because there is some cut-off beyond which families pay full freight, which means that SOMEBODY winds up not being able to "afford" a tuition bill that some calculator or formula says that they can. Right? This is a problem right now in affording college.



See statement above regarding starvation and homelessness. Also-- given the proportion of pregnancies which are "unintended" in the US, I don't really think that most people ARE thinking this hard about family planning. Just sayin.


I support full funding of education through at least grade 12 (and not what currently passes for K through 12 education, but that is clearly a separate post-- though I suppose not really, now that I think about it... Hmmm... more momentarily on that*) as well.


* okay, the reason why I think maybe this ISN'T an entirely separate issue is that the entire reason for subsidies is that the product being subsidized is a "premium" one not available at a price-point that the consumer could pay, and that the service is essential to that consumer.

So, for example, a private school that offers something that the public school can't. Or doesn't. Like-- gifted programming, or programs for autistic teens or classes conducted in ASL or something like that....

or...

higher QUALITY education than a public school provides.


Hmm. Well, I'm not a fan of vouchers, but that kind of subsidization is effectively a voucher system, isn't it?

Hmmmmm.... not sure where I'm going with this line of thinking, but it's interesting to me to think about the natural conclusions of that...

A prodigy needs specialized opportunities, right? So societally, it would be in everyone's best interests to subsidize that special educational setting, I think. If only we knew some way to sort them into "this child NEEDS that environment," as opposed to "this PARENT needs to feel extra-special" and just give very large trophies to the latter and tuition checks to the former, eh?

How about free public education through to the age of eighteen and throw grade levels out the window. You run out of high school material and the state foots the bill for state college education. Equal promise, bonus returns. Of course the state may decide to enact harsh rules on grade skipping.

Thank you for sharing these success stories, it is always great to hear of parents working together to create opportunities for gifted kids, prodigies, and those wanting enrichment.

Everything has a cost. Whether families freely donate, or an institution charges a fee, or public taxes pay the bill. Hopefully in each case the effort provides hope, encourages motivation, and rewards all who strive to be their best and in turn feel inspired to help others in some way.

There is good and bad in everything. Even plans fueled by generosity of spirit, love of fellow man, and best intentions can go awry. Here is an article which provides background related to the economics of paying the bill: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lfare-state-created-age-entitlement.html

Possibly we need more gifted and prodigious economists and philosophers to help forge optimal policies?

To address the topic of the thread directly (highly gifted vs prodigy...how to tell the difference), this article from the Davidson Database may be of interest: Child prodigies: a distinctive form of giftedness.

Hello everyone - please keep this thread on topic. I've had to delete a few posts that veered in different directions.

Mark

Also the OP never came back to even read any responses.