Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments Public School - Episode III

Two steps forward...

DD8 recently took a practice exam for the statewide, high-stakes assessment test (LEAP). DW attended a meeting to discuss DD's performance... and it was not good. It was recommended that DD get some after-school tutoring to bring up her scores.

DW consulted with me, and I stated my position: I do not want DD to attend any tutoring, as this would be an indication the school could use to show how DD was not ready for 4th grade, and should be held back. DD was adequately prepared for the 3rd grade version (iLEAP) when she was homeschooled through 2nd and 3rd grades for approximately 3 hours a day, they have her for 8 hours and are responsible for advancing her only one grade level, so there are no excuses.

In reviewing the results, DW was particularly stricken to see how DD performed on the fractions portion of the math section. DD had done fractions with DW the previous year, and had excelled at them. In conversation with DD, it has been revealed that DD hasn't been doing any fractions in her G/T math pullout, so she hasn't seen it since she did it in homeschooling nearly a year ago. Which begs the question... why is my 4th grade DD not doing the 4th grade math that she'll be tested on in the 4th grade assessment test?

So now I'm anticipating the possibility that DD comes back with subpar LEAP scores, and the school attempts to use that as justification for holding her back a year. We can slam the door on that line of discussion when we hold up her iLEAP scores from the previous year, to demonstrate that she has the ability, and 4th grade was an appropriate placement, so any failure to perform on the LEAP represents a failure of the school to properly prepare her for it.

That's a conversation I'm not looking forward to having.

My expectation is that she's not the only G/T kid having this issue, and the teacher has seen the results, and will be focusing on the subject area deficits from now until test time. I also expect the school to be doing an intensive test-prep review in the weeks prior to the test, because that's what schools do on these things, and at least I now know that this won't be a colossal waste of DD's time.

We'll see how it goes.

In my bitter experience, bad teaching can undo wonderful previous learning. Last year my DS11 had a fantastic teacher. He got As and Bs in math without any help from us or outside tutoring. He's verbally gifted but not super-mathy. His end-of-year test scores were very good, with more than half in the 8th stanine range and none below the 5th or 6th (don't remember). Great.

Fast forward to this year. The entire 6th grade has been forced into pre-algebra and he is LOST. The book is a dog's dinner of bad mathematics and the teacher has been nicknamed Math Harpy by another member of this forum. DS11 generally gets Ds and Fs. Between the Harpy and the non-textbook, we aren't surprised. IMO, my eldest son (taking pre-calculus at age 13 and won the school math award in 7th grade) would have crapped out in this course.

We finally started DS11 with a math tutor in December (2-3 times per week), where he's reviewing elements of 5th grade math (NOT pre-algebra), with sixth grade math to follow later. The last time he was there, he did 10 sections with his teacher in an hour (average in this center is 3-4). He says, "Math is my friend again."

My advice to you is to teach your daughter or get her a good tutor. I agree that teaching her is the school's job, but she's the one who's going to be lost to mathematics if she doesn't learn how to work with fractions, and you and your wife are the only people who can save her. If the school was going to give her a proper understanding of mathematics, it would have done so by now. Sure, they can slap a Band-Aid on her, and it may get her through high-stakes tests. But that doesn't mean she'll actually understand anything.

And unfortunately, they may very well decide to hold her back if she doesn't pass. Perhaps they will even use her failure as a justification for claiming, "Sorry, your kid isn't gifted."

But, WHY? Why would you not want your DD to have tutoring. You/your wife/an outside math tutor could tutor her in fractions or whatever area she needs help in and NOT let her school know about it. So, you are helping your DD and ensuring a good LEAP score and not give the school any ammunition to fight with you about holding her back a year. It makes more sense to help your child now and what she does in her private time is not the school's business.

If I were in your shoes, I would buckle up, tutor my child, ensure that there is no justification for holding her a year back from the school's point of view and save my energy for a bigger fight with this school which is sure to come down the line.

Ofcourse, I am not an involved party and I may be missing some piecs of your story, in which case, please ignore my post.
Good luck.

ashley: I would not want my DD to get tutoring because:

- She's already experiencing something of an overload, and we're firm believers in the physical, developmental, and stress-relief values of free play. She just lost most of her three-day weekend because both of her G/T pull-outs gave her major projects at the same time. The stress was noticeable.

- There are no reasons for DD to be having issues with math. It's her favorite subject, she's enthusiastic about it, and she considers herself very strong at it. Whatever homework she brings home on the subject, I do with her, and she looks forward to that activity. She's been asking me to demonstrate more principles of algebra, and her school isn't even looking at that yet.

- This would effectively punish her for the failure of her school.

- The homeschooling option is still on the table.

What Val said. Emphatically. (Also what Ashley said.)

Look, I understand your mixed feelings and indignation. Truly. We've been "mitigating" the "education" that DD receives via school for quite some time now. I'm beyond irritated that they have the GALL to keep bothering her with things that merely interfere with the process... as if all that we're forced to endure here already weren't trouble ENOUGH. Grrr.



~another member, whose child apparently lost 2 points out of 70 on a final exam for using "x =" notation to describe an asymptote for a function defined as f(x) = in the problem itself... A final exam that had about 10% alignment with the high school dual enrollment course that she's had not one hour of actual LIVE instruction for over the past 16 weeks. A final exam upon which my child was not even allowed to ask whether or not "a" in part b of a question referred to "the resultant value from part a of this question" or to "a variable, a"-- oh, and she guessed wrong. -4 on THAT one, too, even though she demonstrated mastery of the concept/procedure asked for by this item, and in fact even INDICATED what she was using for "a" in the item. Believe me, what passes for "education" these days is playing pretty fast and loose with the very definition. My advice is the same as Val's-- when your gut is telling you that they've jumped the shark, DIY and listen to Jiminy Cricket-- let your conscience be your guide. It's up to you to supply the integrity if there's to be any. BTDT, no tee shirts awarded. LOL.

Can you talk to any other parents to find out if this is the case? DD's school works a year or more ahead in math, but around (cue evil music) HIGH-STAKES STATE TESTING TIME, they assess them all on grade-level stuff, then do review for a while. In other words, if the kids are rusty on the stuff they haven't seen in a while, they hammer them over the head with it till they are back up to speed. I live in a VERY VERY high-stakes state, though.

Are there any practice materials available online? (There are here. This was DD's HW around this time last year, which lo, she did protest mightily.) If she is strong in math and this is typical state test stuff, it shouldn't take her very long to recall the material. I do sometimes find that DD forget stuff (usually the metric system--she canNOT remember the metric system), but it really is a brief time investment before she is like, "Ohhh....yeah." And she is not all that gifted in math. I would describe as competent and strong but not math league material.

I don't know how LEAP compares to our exam, which I believe is known for being easy.

I can certainly sympathize with what you've been going through Dude, we've gone through the mass majority of what you're experiencing over the years. I've come to realize a few things in that process:

1. Right, wrong, or somewhere in between, no school public or private (without moving out of state likely) is going to provide all the needs of your gifted child. As parents, we need to expect to search out opportunities and supplement not only our GT child's education but social / emotional well being.

2. Being "right" often has little bearing on getting things done in public schools.

3. Be careful how much time you spend fighting the good fight of providing for gifted education in schools. Oh, certainly it's a noble cause and it's needed, however, you can spend a great deal of time attempting to get your child what they need from a school and by the time you make a little headway, the need has passed. It's still a worthy cause for other gifted students, however, for your own child often times it's just better to provide the solution by other means.

4. You're not alone, though often it feels that way. As evidenced by this forum, a lot of people go though such things with their gifted kids if not having experienced it themselves in school. For most, it gets somewhat better as they get older and we all seem to be alive, kicking, and reasonably well adjusted in spite of all the difficulties.

The whole lunch thing has been a pet peeve of mine for decades and it seems to be the norm. We're sending a really poor message and developing bad habits among children with that practice. As with many practices though, there are reasons, not necessarily satisfactory reasons to us as parents, however, few things are as simple as they appear without fully investigating the reasoning behind such things.

I obviously am not familiar with your state testing so feel free to disregard my post. However, I would first check to make sure that it is actually an issue of your DD forgeting all the fraction concepts from last school year. Sometimes these tests can be a bit strange and other times it may be an issue of failing to provide adequate explanation/procedures in support of the answer.

It is possible that there is a big change from the 3rd grade test to the 4th grade test. However, given the endless spiraling in most elementary curriculum, it seems odd for a gifted student to go from a high score in 3rd grade to a low score in 4th grade. My point is to make sure that it wasn't just an issue of a bad test day for your DD or some other idiosyncrasy with the test first.

If your DD did in fact forget all the fraction concepts, it should not take very long to give her a quick refresher so that she will score highly. It would create unncessary stress for her as well as damage her self-confidence if she scores poorly and the school challenges her placement and it turns out that the other GT students score highly on the test.

BTW, such testing problems don't stop later. Our eldest DS taking standardized tests didn't show any gains his Jr. & Sr. year of HS for math.....but the top of the standardized test was advanced algebra which he hadn't taken since 7th grade He didn't remember a good portion of it but had calc coming out his ears.

Agreed, Old Dad. Happened with DD on the PSAT, even-- she tried to way overthink the math.