Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Existential Depression in a 5 year old??

I haven't been able to put my finger on what was going on with DD until I ran across this article: https://www.davidsongifted.org/gifted-blog/existential-depression-in-gifted-individuals/

Lately, she's been questioning everything. She tells me "I don't like myself" and when questioned further it seems to be in part that she doesn't look exactly like DH or myself. Other times she says it's because she doesn't know what she wants to do with her life (like who she will marry, what job she will do, living on her own someday etc). We try to explain to her that is incredibly far off but she still freaks out about these questions. Sometimes she just tells me "you don't understand" and won't explain further.

She figured out when she was 4 that Santa didn't exist (a friend of ours had mentioned him and she got really upset about it and demanded we start telling her the truth). And this has made her start to question everything, if God exists, what things we actually believe in etc.

She also get a lot of nightmares at night. She constantly fears that DH or myself will die and asks if we'll still love her after we die or just questions about death in general. She's very interested in outerspace/planets/stars and asked when the sun would die. This has also added to her fears and she asks when people will learn space travel so that we can move to another planet if the sun dies.

If she does make a mistake or accidentally insults someone she holds on to it and won't let go. There are things she got in trouble for MONTHS ago that she still feels bad about and will start crying about randomly.

Mostly, she just comes to me with this stuff. DH gets frustrated on how to handle it. She said that she's tried talking to her nanny about it but she also didn't say much. I'm not even sure what to say most of the time but to explain to that we will always love her. I also tell her about my own childhood and things that I was scared about, how I also had nightmares and many of these same fears.

We've talked about possibly taking her to a psychologist. I don't even know where to start when it comes to finding one. We have a number of family members with mental health issues so that's an added concern for us...

ETA: I've also tried tentatively broaching this subject with a few friends of mine to see if their kids are asking similar questions but I get the impression they all think I'm crazy?

You're not crazy. My ds was obsessed with death around that age and would ask relentless questions about it, nearly always at bed time. Also very hard on himself, also finds it hard to forgive himself, also a deep thinker. I think this kind of deep awareness may be unsettling for us as parents (because we know we can't satisfy with the pat, easy answers), but will come to serve our dc well in life. It's okay to be questioning things. I did as a kid. I used to spend hours trying to imagine what it must be like to live within another body, after tiring myself on the why of it, and now I'm a writer.

You're definitely not crazy. DS5 has asked questions about death many, many times - usually at bedtime. It is clearly something he has been thinking about. It usually catches me off guard. These are not the types of questions one necessarily expects from a young child.

Thanks so much for the support and understanding! Have either of you found anything that helps? For us it's also often right before bedtime. At first I thought it was a delaying technique (she hates going to sleep) but now I think it has more to do with bedtime being more a quiet time where she starts to think about these things.

I don't mind the questions but I hate how sad she gets.

My DS6 went through the same thing and still asks about death and the eventual end of our planet and galaxy. He too started out the school year telling people at school he hated himself and he was stupid. It seems young to have these feelings, but these kids are special in that they can think deeply and question things on an unusual level. You definitely aren't alone!

He has a lot of anxiety, especially around bedtime when he has to be quiet with his racing mind. Many of the things she worries about translates to anxiety which is super common in gifted kids. We've found that listening to a bedtime meditation helps focus those thoughts on something so he can more easily go to sleep. It has made an incredible difference even in his awake time. It took a few weeks for it to really show a difference, but now he doesn't like to go to sleep without it. His favorite is '"Bedtime Relaxation for Kids" by Christianne Kerr (sp?)

We've also met with Dr. Dan Peters when we were going for testing. He recently released a wonderful book called "The Worry Monster". I highly recommend taking a look at that book as well.

This exact thing has been an ongoing concern of my DD's probably since about age 5. It still comes up. I have had to Google the estimated "time of death" of the sun a few times to show her that scientists agree that this is several billion years away. She still worries. She has long had other existential concerns about the universe as well.

So, your DD is not the only one. DS5 has other existential concerns as well. For both, I find that "being the adult" and saying that I promise that will never happen and being very firm that they do not need to worry about XYZ (as opposed to at other times when we are more curosity-focused--"what do you think?") is helpful).

Sorry to hear about your daughters struggles. I can only offer a few ideas that have helped me personally, when I go through existential depression. Maybe some can be adapted to help your daughter as well.

One, I talk to people who are good at the name-the-feeling and repeat-back-the-concern techniques. So something like: "you're really sad, you are wondering if X" or "It makes you feel anxious when you haven't found the answer to X". I don't really expect anyone to have an answer for questions I grapple with, but it's nice to have another person just join me in the thought process for a bit. Sometimes, it's better for me to talk to someone who isn't a deep thinker at all,someone who will say, "Well I never thought of that. I can see why that would bother you."

Two, I find it helpful to keep a record of my concerns, thought processes, and the inspirations/resolutions that I've come to. I hate the word "journaling", but same thing. If nothing else, I can at least look back at past existential struggles and see that I found peace eventually. Also, it's good to limit the amount of time I spend thinking about hard things. So I might write and think for an hour a day and then make myself go about my normal life for the rest of the time.

Three, I try to turn my existential concerns into a goal. So instead of "I'm freaking out because I don't know what I'm going to do with my life", I might say "My goal is to learn more about how I want to spend my time" or "My goal is to spend more time doing the things that are important to me." Then, I can think more about manageable, concrete tasks to accomplish, rather than huge, overwhelming questions. Sometimes, part of my brain sees this as trivial busy work, like making an outline before you write an essay. On the other hand, I know I will feel better if I can take control of the process and gain some traction.

Great post, Space_Cadet!

ultramarina - I wish that would work for her! Sadly, she's an absolute skeptic and it's rare that she'll believe something just because an adult says it (if anything we're always completely exhausted because she wants us to prove everything! A great trait to have, in general, but oh man is it tiring!).

Space_Cadet- that's very helpful. I think the first two especially might work for her. I'm going to try the first one tonight and also suggest to her to use her tape recorder to log some of her thoughts/questions.

For us (and this wouldn't be universally helpful, I understand), it usually starts a discussion about our faith.

Space_Cadet - excellent!

On the other hand, DD8 talks about the death of the sun and the end of earth regularly, not in a concerned fashion, but just because she is interested in space and the universe. She was telling DS5 about this the other day, but told him "but don't worry, it'll be long after we're dead." DS took that in stride, "Yeah." Strange conversions my DC have...

The author of the OP’s link on existential depression is James T. Webb, Ph.D. He has recently released a new book (2013, Great Potential Press) which may be of interest and provide expert guidance and support: Searching for Meaning: Idealism, Bright Minds, Disillusionment, and Hope. There is a free online book preview sample at this link. Existential depression and other forms of depression are discussed. The book ends on a strong positive note in discussing happiness and lasting contentment. The table of contents and subjects covered can be previewed on Amazon, using the "look inside" feature.

There is also a past senginar (SENG web seminar) recording on the subject. http://www.sengifted.org/shop/existential-depression.

Webb is also co-author of A Parent’s Guide to Gifted Children, which may prove helpful on your journey.

Parents may also find the books Living With Intensity by Susan Daniels, and Make Your Worrier a Warrior by Dan Peters, to be helpful.

While books may not work for everyone, many families find them helpful in that the extensive examples provided may help a parent prepare to anticipate a situation and proactively recognize what may be occurring, rather than reacting/responding to a situation after the fact.

Great! I really like the tape recorder idea.

This is a little bit funny to me because just yesterday DH was teasing me about how often I use the word "existential" in seemingly everyday conversations with him. I guess I'm just glad somebody else brought it up for a change.

Ha. Oh, mine is this way, too. However, seeing multiple experts stating the same thing over and over is at least vaguely helpful. She still comes back with, "BUt what if they're wrong???", though.

Not to hijack, but whereas DD9 fixates on "what if" scenarios (death, sun burning out) as well as being freaked out by infinity and the size of the universe, DS5's bedtime angst episodes focus on feelings of great emotion about past events that were enjoyed but are over--vacations, visits with family, Christmas, etc. He has trouble with the fact that these things are over and feels melancholy about the past being past. He seems to worry that things will not be "fun" again. He also really misses family members who live far away and always struggles after we part from them. This is quite different than DD's issues. He also will sort of perseverate and say he "can't get things out of his mind," even though he wants to. Anyone else have something like this?

I will share what we do with him, though: we have a list of fun things we do regularly by the bed for him to look at with a flashlight and think about (such as going swimming, going to a movie, playdates with friends, etc). This helps him think positively about the future.

I'm kind of laughing a little to myself because it is just occurring to me that Jim Croce's Time in a Bottle could be my 5yo's Angst Theme Song. Seriously, I suspect that song would make him cry. He is his own thing!

I went through existential depression multiple times myself as a kid.

It's usually worse when I had a lot of idle time.

Good luck.

About a year ago DS6.0 went through an existential depression stage about death....and it was rough. He is so sensitive about everything that talking seemed to not be helping. It was so hard as a parent feeling like he didn't trust me enough...he still had to question my comfortings. But, my advice is keep talking, because you want them to always know that you are there to talk to, and that no subject is awkward or off-limits. I feel that there will be many more of these crisis yet to come, and I want him to always feel free to talk to us about them. It is extra hard though when they seem to have a built in mind set about the universe being un-fair, unkind. My goal is to work hard on developing a optimistic attitude...which is hard. Very hard. It's a 10-15 year project at least! But in the end, it may be the only thing that can overcome the depression...so it's a life skill that is critical for kids who think like this.