Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Help - Distressing BASC-2

Yes, CBT is cognitive behavior therapy. It's been very beneficial to my son in dealing with frustration and anxiety.

If there is a possibly you'd medicate him, or you are thinking of potential therapies or accommodations for ADHD, then I would go ahead and get an eval right now...just disregard the teacher's assessment if you don't think it's valid. When DS had his eval the psych sent me 2 different teacher forms. Is there another teacher who could evaluate him? You probably don't need it though. There are lots of kids who are homeschooled or don't have teachers who know them well enough to fill out an inventory, but still get ADHD diagnoses.

Thanks all! Still on the fence. DH doesn't think he needs meds at all, particularly since he seems fine in all respects (chess club, math club, hockey lessons, etc.) and is doing so well academically. DH and I are worried the problem is boredom more than adhd (with a little asynchrony thrown in, too) at this point. He said he's not medicating his kid cause some teachers think he's weird and difficult. He is not having any chronic behavior problems in school (other than appearing "to not be paying attention" and then having to figure what is going on)... Even more disconcerting is that appears to us he is not having any of the social problems that the teacher cited in the BASC (that would be another big reason to seriously try meds imo). Not only does he report that he has lots of friends.... we have evidence playdates are already lining up for over the holidays. This leads even more mistrust on my DH's part of the teacher's responses... We are thinking maybe she just exaggerated some (we already had one admit that teachers will do that to get a kid 'help'). I just wish they'd look more to maybe engaging his intellect more to help rather than to a Dx and meds.

Anyway, to help us further, I ask for a copy of last year's teacher's BASC form. I know he only came up "at risk" for "in attention" so I want to see her individual ratings and compare. I also think it would be helpful for an evaluator to see the history. I am thinking of trying to the kindergarten's teacher's form too. His endorsed no problems. I am also getting full achievement done. I think it will help with a complete picture to see how far above (or not) DS is compared to his grade level. Perhaps his most inattentive times will match the achievement levels. Anyway. I figure past BASC results and achievement can only help us and any evaluator in getting a complete picture. Fortunately I am no longer angry at the teacher... I do think she may just be trying to help or doesn't understand that DS may need a lot less repetition and some higher level work.

Okay,so I managed to get some info by asking DS some carefully crafted questions. What I found out was although he reports that doesn't interrupt other students during class (I do not see much interrupting behavior at home), he says he does interrupt the teacher... Not with "answers," he reports he generally keeps those to himself, but when he wants to share something related to what the teacher is saying. He reports that he raises his hand but his arm gets tired ( this is due to EDS and poor muscle tone) and the teacher ignores him and doesn't call on him and so he'll just 'call out'. ( I'm sure the teacher just wants/needs to finish her spiel or whatever).

As for disrupting other students while their working, (which I had to, over a course of days, ask a series of carefully calculated questions to get to finally get to the bottom of this), he reports once or twice he has tried to help students who are struggling with their work after he was all finished his work. He says the students don't get angry at his attempts to help and he's never gotten in trouble for it but he reports he's only done it once or twice (not sure how accurate this amount is).

I think theses may account for a few of the BASC2 responses. It doesn't account for the social and atypical ones though like "always acts strangely" and "is always out of touch with reality" and "always picked last for games" and "never well-liked buy same-sex or opposite-sex peers." I wonder, though, in light of DS's explanations for "always interrupting" and "disrupting other students' work" are these ADHD behaviors? I really have no idea. Obviously, they look like such out if context on a BASC form ... But in reality are they?

JUut bumping to see if there are any thoughts on my last post (if there are not - no worries ) I am now leaning very strongly to not evaluating for adhd at this time. I am getting a full composite (is that the right term?) of Woodcock Johnson III achievement testing for DS in reading and math to see where he is ... May be important in gauging how likely some boredom is contributing... And if there are good enough I may have him apply to DYS We'll see,,,, I'm not sure if they'll be high enough for DYS...

I think they can be ADHD behaviors if he is being impulsive. Is he impulsive in other situations? For instance DD might pick up crayons and start breaking them in half for no reason (that's something she did in Kindergarten). She knows things are wrong, but does them anyway.
I think if he has ADHD you'd see some pretty difficult behavior at home (unless it's just the inattentive type).

Things that I've observed in DD when she's not medicated:
1. Needs constant reminders of what she's supposed to be doing (get coat, shoes, backpack, eat breakfast, put homework in folder, etc. etc).
2. Impulsive behavior like sneaking food, yelling at people, writing on the walls
3. Body in constant motion at certain times of day...for instance we might be in a store and she'll suddenly take off and run down an aisle, fiddle w/ things she's not supposed to fiddle with, etc.
4. Not be able to focus on work if there is noise or disruptions in the room.
5. Space out and lose focus even doing things like playing a board game. She'll need to be reminded that it's her turn.
6. Either rush through things or take a really long time to do things that should be simple

DD has combined type ADHD but she has never interrupted people in school, or had any major behavior issues there really (other than the time she broke the crayons in half and another time she washed her hair in the sink). She does have a really hard time focusing on work at school if she's not medicated though. It's like she has inattentive ADD at school and combined type at home. She seems to hold herself together very well at school and it all comes out at home.

I also think a kid can have executive functioning issues without having ADHD. This is DS. For instance, he can tend to forget what he's doing when he's carrying out tasks involving motor skills. He looks like he has inattentive ADD but his attention seems ok, it's just organization that's an issue.

Hmm, well that's always been my problem. He doesn't have the typical behavior issues at home - in any home activities or in play or socially. When I posted Dr. Barkley's (most awesome, I may add) video on ADHD, people on here were like "he was SPOT on... I saw my child immediately in what he was saying" etc... I didn't. I could sit there saying this really doesn't fit my kid. I have never had these problems with him... I was the mom with the kid at story time who listen raptly to the story. I had/have the kids that I take them to presentation and the natural history museum or science museum and they sit and listen. We have been complimented on it. He was never the kid who ran around the store - he would sit contentedly in the basket/cart looking at a book. He sits fine for his entire meal. His appetite is good and he isn't rushing off to another activity without eating. His babysitters have always professed to like him and say he's good. I do not worry about his behavior at all when I send him to playdates or anything. he even sleepsover his buddy's house and they at least tell me he was fine.

He does chew his pencils. He does fidget.

He does have weak EF skills and I do see that at home and at school. Though they are improving - which is a very pleasant surprise. However, he CAN be very inattentive in certain situations.

He does move a lot. He tends pace, always has, particularly when he is thinking or creating or talking and discussing. He is not comfortable sitting long and will get up and pace around and then come back to what he was doing and sit down. But He does not appear very impulsive to me at all... Maybe I am just used to him but he has always been pretty cautious - liking to observe and get the the 'lay of land' before deciding what he wants to do, who he wants to approach, how things are working (like who is the 'ruler' and who are the "sidekicks' LOL... oh and who seems "fake"). Though as he gets older, he is less so but I thought that was good.

Despite pacing and moving around a lot, he is very SLOW at doing things (particularly EF things). They complain at school he just takes too long to do everything and I can believe it... WHile he reads well and at a very high level and has always liked books ... he fidgets an incredible amount while reading... it is annoying to me. He does not fidget nearly as much in say math.

Maybe he has it mildly. Or maybe these things are due to his other issues - dysgraphia, EDS and visual processing weakness/deficits - they all have a litany of adhd like behavior that accompany them. However, I think they also tend to often be co-morbid with adhd. So hard to tell.

DD has certain things that she DOES do very well in in terms of attention, for instance she read most of a Harry Potter book in one sitting. She can put together a large jigsaw puzzle. Even unmedicated. But the problem usually comes in if there are lots of distractions around her and it's not something that she enjoys a lot or is engrossed in. So writing and math are very hard for her when there are lots of distractions but she does Ok with reading. She uses headphones in the classroom for some work but not other types. She is very slow with written work when she's not medicated (slower than usual-she is always slow with written work). So even with processing speed there are differences. It affects her math and writing but not reading fluency. It doesn't sound like it's a clear cut obvious case of ADHD but I wouldn't rule it out just because there are some things where he has good attention. If he is very inattentive in certain circumstances (like things that are boring to him but he is expected to do) that would be a red flag. I kind of like the computerized test at the neuropsych that DS did because the kids know they need to do it and most of them will try, but it is super boring and it gives an objective measure of how impulsive they are in their answers and whether they start losing focus after a while.

Thanks, Blackcat!I'm not ruling it out (I may wait on getting an eval though)... I was just wondering if those actions would still be considered ADHD symptoms in light of the context and DS's reasoning. I guess just for my own personal assessment and it also goes to whether we should proceed with the eval with this particular teacher having so much input. Incidentally, DS did one of those computer tests and did fine. I know they are simply a diagnostic tool and not the end all be all, of course... I also *think*, not entirely sure, the computer test is a little more sensitive to or measuring impulsiveness rather than inattention? I can't remember ... I thought that is what I read or was told. But, anyway, he did fine at least that day that he was tested.

So, wish me luck today ... going in to do the roommom thing for the holiday party and I am afraid I'm gonna get 'called to the principal's office' and be 'in trouble.' I have been giving DS books from home to read at hundred book challenge independent reading time. He is above the level they put him on back in September (double-red) but are not moving him up for some reason (I think they just haven't tested him yet - I think they only do the DRAs at certain times of the year). Anyway, I put a double-red tag on his latest book so he could read it at independent reading time without getting told on by classmates that "he is reading above his level" or "from a non-hundred book challenge book." The book is indeed well above the double-red level and not a hundred book challenge book (it's "Sixty-Eight Rooms"). Anyway, teacher asked him to bring his book up to her this past week, and looked at it, commented on how it seemed a pretty high level book, and, then, asked him to read it to her. He read about two pages to her. She told him he did a good job and to enjoy the book. But I am totally busted now!!! So, not only do I have to deal with the catty moms today but I'll probably be chastised for supporting and abetting insubordination (principal will have someone watch for me and then have them bring me out - that's how he rolls LOL... at least with me). No wonder DS got "always disobeys" on his BASC form. LOL.

You just do what you have to do. I have no idea what level DS is reading in school. Last year at this time he was at an O, now he is probably at an L. I donated about 50 books to the classroom and DS has been reading an "Earth and Space" book that I sent in, which he really liked, but another boy told him he wanted to read it and DS is so nice, he just gave it to him.
The teacher told Dh that DS has a "book box" with books at his level (whatever she considers his level) but he often chooses lower level books so he can fit in with the other kids. She thinks that's perfectly Ok. To me, that's just more evidence that he should be accelerated.
As for math homework, I finally just sent in a note saying that I hope she understands, but he won't be doing it anymore as it is very far below his academic level, and I will have him do something more appropriate. She previously agreed to give him harder level math, but then just never did it. I know I'm not popular with the teacher anymore, but sometimes you have to put your foot down and just do what you need to do for your child.