Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Recommended Resources AoPS Intro to Geometry course review

My DS10, soon to be DS11, took an Intro to Python programming course from AoPS this summer and it was run very similar to the Geometry course you describe. The course was pretty tough for him and I contacted a local university and found a tutor which turned out to really help (as I was of almost no use to him). He now often likes to find difficult math problems and write code to find the answers.

He is currently working with EPGY Geometry and is definitely being challenged. It has been a long time since I took Geometry and I do not remember being presented with some of the topics in such great depth. In the past year he has completed EPGY's 5-6, PreAlgebra, Algebra and Intermed Algebra. Geometry is the first course that has really challenged him but he seems to be rising to the challenge so far.

I think we may try the AOPS Counting and the Number Theory classes after he finishes Geometry. I was thinking of trying to just get the books and go through it without the online course but not sure how that might work.

Thanks for the info on AoPS Geometry.

Does he do Alcumus, and if so, does he have a high level and all topics blue in the counting and probability there? That's the obvious thing to use as a guide. The intro c&p is reputed to be the easiest intro course, but it looks to me as though the intermediate requires a level of mathematical sophistication that makes it unsuitable as an immediate follow-on from the intro course. For example, it does induction half way through, something which (for reasons I've never fully understood!) many people find to be a conceptual roadblock.

It was useful for a few years, and he used to go in phases of liking it a lot for a while and then getting bored with it. Definitely only useful for routine problems, but doing the routine questions and working out what was going on from that beat being actually taught the material, for him. I doubt he'll use it again at this point, though.

Thanks for the great review!

You mentioned that the class was all text based. Just wondering how well they can convey the geometrical ideas without drawings.

Bad choice of words on my part - they did have diagrams, but no audio, video [in the classes - there are some video lessons I think, but they weren't assigned] etc.

I see. Thanks for the clarification.

He did some Alcumus (not much) when he was doing the Pre-Algebra but none recently. I will have to check. His teacher at school has been trying to get the students to do the Alcumus and give him their info so he can check up on them.

Thanks for that in-depth review. I also would have expected it not to have been quite so challenging for your DS. On the other hand, I did find ALEKS (as least the pre-algebra) somewhat superficial and definitely way easier than the Pre-Algebra DS subsequently studied at school.

Thank you for posting! Incidentally, here is a recent WTM thread 'AoPS--self-study vs online class':

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/497646-aops-self-study-vs-online-class

Re: *Intermediate* Number Theory:


Re: relative difficulty of classes:

Re: online class vs self-study:

ETA: also, from here:

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/495394-number-theory-vs-counting-probability-in-aops

it looks like 'intro to number theory' < 'algebra 1' < 'intro to counting and probability'.

As far as this "One good thing about the format is that there's very little in the way of clues to student age," is the point just that it's possible to never disclose it, or is it encouraged not to disclose it, or doesn't it matter either way? Is there any philosophy behind this "age-anonymity"?

As far as costs I was thinking.
$X0 for a book
$Y00 for an AoPS course
$Z000 for a Math Summer Camp (for 2-5 weeks, e.g. Epsilon, MathPath, MathCamp).
We had a thread on Math Summer Camps
http://giftedissues.davidsongifted..../all/What_elite_math_camps_are_ther.html
The $Z000 price for a Camp takes people aback, but some here have paid it, and others are thinking about it. In that context, $Y00 for an AoPS course seems more reasonable, even though you can get a book for only $X0.

Our DS7 has been taking K12Inc online courses (for free in a virtual school) and he has been going through the math courses like a hot knife through butter. They are okay for basic presentation of material, but the exercises are rudimentary and unchallenging, and I've heard similar complaints about most course options out there. I gather that AoPS is a rare case (unique? anyone know of others for math?) of very challenging courses which we desperately need to prevent all the pitfalls of whizzing through shallow courses, and never meeting real challenge.

I've been convinced that AoPS Intro to Geometry is a good one for DS to take (eventually, when the time is right), and I could possibly learn a fair bit from it myself, which would not be the case for any other intro or interm course.

We need to pick one or more AoPS courses for DS to take before Intro to Geometry, and before the lack of challenge goes too long. (I'm asking for suggestions.) We have to be selective due to time, cost, potential burnout. Though I could teach any of them myself using just the book, I gather from the review and other comments, that it is worth having the structure, timeline, feedback from non-parent grader/marker, and other potential dialogue.

Out of the following AoPS courses, does anyone have recommendations? And what is a (partial) order of these courses in terms of difficulty, and also considering prerequisites? (DS would meanwhile be taking a standard USA sequence of courses. He's doing K12Inc's PreAlgebra now.)
Algebra 1
Introduction to Counting & Probability
Introduction to Number Theory
Algebra 2
Introduction to Geometry
Algebra 3
Intermediate Counting & Probability
Intermediate Number Theory
MATHCOUNTS/AMC 8 Basics
Advanced MATHCOUNTS/AMC 8

Also does anyone have experience with younger kids (8, 9, 10) handling the live online lessons with the fast reading and typing (with a parent right there to maybe help type)and the fast thinking, of course? Does it work for young ones? How much learning happens in real time during the live lesson, rather than at other times?

DS (turned 11 last week) began EPGY in 4th grade and went through their 5th-6th course in a bit under two months, next completed Honors Pre-Algebra in about a month and a half; finally completing 4th grade by doing Honors Algebra. He worked alone almost entirely which was great as before EPGY I felt I was too involved in his math.

He took the summer off for math but took AoPS Intro to Python Programming which was difficult for him. I contacted a local university about 2/3 of the way through the course and found a student to tutor him for what turned out to be about 10 hours. The tutor really helped him understand and he enjoyed the course and now really likes to write programs. I think the AoPS course was hard in general but also he struggled to type quickly enough to be too involved. It was his first time being involved in an online chat learning format and I think it was difficult for him but all in all a great experience. I was not really involved at all except for at the very beginning to see how the course worked and the chat was being moderated.

He began 5th grade this year and started EPGY Intermediate Algebra which he completed in two months so he recently started Intro to Geometry and is definitely being challenged but seems to enjoy it. I think Intro to Geometry is the first real challenge he has faced with his EPGY courses, not so much that he did not learn in the other courses as he definitely did, but it did not seem to be overly tough for him.

I think it will take him about 4 to 5 months to complete the Geometry course. Afterwards I hope for him to do the AoPS courses on Counting/Probability and then Number Theory. I purchased the books and am hoping he can do it without the online class as the timing is not great for us.

FYI - my son is in public school but is able to work on his EPGY math course during the math period.