Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Help - Distressing BASC-2

Lots of great advice so far.

Last year DS's grade 1 teacher suspected ADHD-I and encouraged us to test. I was very fortunate that I had the opportunity to volunteer in the class so I could see with my own eyes what she was seeing that made her think of ADHD. TBH in our case I don't blame her, to an untrained person he fit many of the stereotypes. Many of the behaviours were things that he didn't exhibit in kindergarten or for other teachers that were better at differentiating, more organized and had better classroom management among other things.

In reality he was an incredibly frustrated 2e kid who did NOT mesh well with her teaching methods or with the high level of chaos in her class. For him the increased writing expectations in grade 1 emphasized his LD and he was extremely frustrated by that and resulted in bad behaviour. On the other side of things was the boredom when they repeated things again and again and again. It didn't help that there was another kid in the class with diagnosed ADHD and the two of them fed off each other and the teacher could not deal with one of them, let alone two.

The ed-psych read us all of her report which was hard to hear but she was able to see through all of it. We explained what we saw at home and she spent many hours with DS to get her own opinion. In the end she wrote up an amazing report that helped the teacher understand him and it helped. It still wasn't the best fit but it improved things enough to survive the rest of the year. We then advocated for a better fit this year and it has been a huge improvement.

I don't have any specific advice other than breath, explain to your psych your concerns and see what comes out in the end. Hopefully they will be able to get to the root of whatever the issue is and help him. Good luck.

Thank you so much Polarbear. Your thoughts are especially meaningful because our DSs have the same challenges and such a similar profile. Now that I have cooled down, I am able to realize I don't think teacher is meaning to be problematic or malicious - these teachers simply do not understand our type of kids. They ARE complicated. First of all, Ds's teacher has never heard of dyspraxia or developmental coordination disorder. Never. Heard. Of. It. I am not sure if she has ever heard of dysgraphia before either. I also think she doesn't fully appreciate how meaningful these statements in these surveys are and what they mean. For example, My DH said when looking at the scale, "'Sometimes does strange things?' Of course, don't we all? He and his brother were making faces at each other the other morning and laughing hysterically! He is quirky with his creative shocks and stories coming to him. We all do strange things sometimes!" And I had to tell him "no, they mean *strange things,* like abnormal, like think socially abherrant. Not just going off to write and act out a story or making faces with his brother." I only know that because this stuff is quoted and repeated back in the reports and used to support serious diagnoses like auitism, ADHD, and things like ODD.

Part of me wonders, too, if this is some sort of fall-out due to the run-ins I have had with her about the 100 book challenge and the math. I wonder if she is trying to get the message across that my parenting and my mindset on those issues are leading to "behavior problems." The "disobeying" that I know of and that I was contacted about was the book things. The teacher really seemed annoyed that he was bringing in books (she insisted that he only choose from the basket and repeatedly disciplined him for reading his own book until I intervened). She also wants him to stay at a certain level and he really does like to read a level or two above (honestly this kid loves a challenge - it's almost like he NEEDS it to be little harder for him to maintain his interest). Anyway, he is constantly disobeying that rule and I support that disobediance. When I talked to teacher on the phone about it she wanted to tell me all about her "philosophy" and how "this wasn't about reading it was about disobeying." We also have had some run-ins about the math work.


That is how I am going to approach it, actually. I am not looking at this as what is "wrong" with my child anymore. With the exception of the adhd issue I already know what's "wrong" with my child. I am approaching the distrubing/extreme statements as "what is going wrong in the school environment and WHAT DO THEY need to do to make this a more inviting supportive environment for my son?" I am going to ask her about each disturbing/distressing statement, find out how accurate it really is and then I am going to say I am very concerned that this isn't a supportive environment for my son and ask "what can the school do to help make this a better place for my son?" ( I got this form an interview with Michael Phelps mom - Michael Phelps apparently has ADHD and his mom was (still is?) a school principal. She said when the school would call her with a litany of complaints about her son, she would respond "so, what are you doing to help him?") I thinkg a change of my perspective is in order. I am lookign at the rating scale as an inventory of where the school is failing my DS NOT where my DS is failing his teacher (and her "philosophy"). I mean, why is DS's teacher "always" letting hm "be choosen last for games." Is he really always being excluded like this? And if so why is she allowing it? We already know he has some special needs like EDS and giftedness and anxiety. Why is he being being routinely excluded like this? What is going on that he "always" breaking the rules"? What rules? perhaps he CAN"T abide by them due to either his physical issues or maybe even his gifttedness (like the book situation). I am turning it around on the school. Because if my child is really that "lost" and excluded and struggling that much to "obey" then something needs to be done and I think at this point it's on the school.



This really DOES help. SO MUCH. I even gave it to my husband to read.

Thsi is EXACTLY my son's complaint. He can not stand the repitition. My son also reports that, unlike last year's class, most of the kids in his class are much lower than he in math and reading. I fear his has no real 'peers' kids who can read and like math as much as he. Last year in his class there were a number of kids who were very high (higher than he)in math and reading. He thrived with them in the class - they talked books, they talked math, etc. In this calss, there is dearth ... He reports many of the children are below average.

I have the EXACT same situation. DS8, the one at issue in this thread, is intense and creative and some people get him and some don't. He is wicked smart and seems to produce extreme reactions. Most teachers seem to hate it. A few love it and have loved him but it takes a special person to truly appreciate him. However, having said that, he's not out of control or anything. My younger one is adorable and never argues (with teachers, with me he argues plenty LOL). He seems like rules and is blond-haired and blue eyed and a charmer. He really knows how to charm. He is not extremely verbal like DS8 and is very easy going. And his excutive functioning skils are fantastic. I am repeatedly told that he is an "absolute joy" to have in the classroom.

FWIW, I found this (in hindsight) to also have been a huge wall to get over and a *need* when it came to remediating our ds' challenges - our ds has made the most significant leaps in bounds in remediating his challenges when he is given work to do at his intellectual level, not at the apparent "grade level" where students would be doing the same work. This isn't easy to explain and I don't have much time at the moment, but for instance - with written expression - ds was clearly below grade level for many years in ability to produce various types of written expression, and he needed very basic remediation, and he needed to repeat repeat repeat to learn the skill (the essence of dysgraphia). Yet he couldn't find those words and never made noticable progress until we were giving him written expression assignments that were making him *think* close to the level of his intellectual ability to analyze and synthesize ideas. When we got the "mix" in the right proportions (appropriate thinking level + appropriate remediation level) it worked - not always right away and not always astoundingly amazing, but it worked And that was something that I don't think his elementary school teachers *ever* understood - except perhaps one gifted program teacher.

polarbear

This sort of reminds me of my son's previous school... one of teachers (not his teacher, but same grade - taught across the hall from his class) sometimes helped w/him and loudly proclaimed my son to be violent! Every interaction she had with him somehow seemed to involve my son hitting or kicking her! I was floored. Never had heard a single complaint of that sort about him before. His teacher rated him crazy, off the scale on all of her behavioral assessments for him as well. The school psychologist came in and did his eval and then said he was "emotionally disturbed". Aaannnd... then we abandoned ship for the charter school.

LOL, my DS fits that description and the image of him throwing a desk at a teacher made me giggle.

I think with these evals the person scoring them is supposed to look and make sure responses are consistent between raters and that they are not overly negative or positive. Perhaps that is why they use the words "never" or "always" to try to trick people a little. For the eval the school did both the teacher and I filled out the BRIEF for executive functioning and the psych put both our scores on a graph and we could see that they were pretty consistent with each other with minor variations because DS is a bit different at home than in school. She wrote in the report that neither one of us was overly negative or positive and that our responses were consistent. Just saying that to try to make you feel better Irena--hopefully the teacher's ratings will be shown to be invalid because they are overly negative.

Still thinking about all of this. It seriously keeps me up at night.

I am seriously thinking about shelving the entire evaluation. Perhaps next year, DS will have a teacher that understands giftedness, creativity, and the need for challenge and be able to give a more accurate BASC-2 assessment. I just feel like this teacher really doesn't understand DS well enough to have such big input in this assessment. As it stands now, I have no trouble with him at home (and never really have). I have no trouble with him being babysat, no trouble with him at camps, at mathnasium, at chess club, etc. He gets darn good grades and his reading and math skills are grade levels above. Since he gets strong accommodations for writing now, things have been very smooth this year on that front with him seeming happy and less stressed. I can only imagine that as he continues to get better and better at keyboarding, he will continue to improve in this area. I am not getting phone calls home or any reports that he is "in trouble" all of the time. He reports that he is relatively happy at school - he likes the advanced math class, he likes ATP, I give him books to read at 100 book challenge (yes we "always disobey" and "break the rules" together but it is a rule I am kind of proud he disobeys). And ever since I have been giving magnesium baths his little tic even went away. The only "problem" presently is that the teachers are concerned that he pays "no attention" at all in class. But he must be paying SOME attention because he gets 100% on his tests.

He also seems to be developing his EF skills (granted they are probably weak for his age but they defintiely seem to be improving) - he seems to have no trouble with his home routines, etc. Despite that, he says he loves checklists (as do I, LOL) so he made one up for himself for morning routine (this was prompted by him not being able to rely on DH who takes him in the morning b/c often DH is struggling with his own routine and our 4 year old and because they have them in school) and at the bottom of the list he wrte "what can I do to help us all get out?" So cute.

So why do we need this diagnosis right now? The waiting list for the actual eval is about months anyway. I think it can wait...Much of what he seems to be struggling with seem due to Dyspraxia/DCD and those will improve with time (as they do seem to be doing).

Of course, I am still struggling so tomorrow I may decide to go ahead with the eval. I just don't know. I do know that the teachers 'think' we are going ahead with an ADHD eval, they also know it will takes months and I am pretty sure that'll keep them happy and off my back for awhile.

Thoughts/insights/critisms?

Is your kiddo currently in any therapy? I was thinking, even without a clear picture of what's going on, and without a diagnosis, you can still likely find a therapist for him. I really like the CBT that my son is doing. I feel like what they do would help ANYONE, even without a diagnosis or diagnosible issue.

What is CBT? Is that cognitive behavioral therapy?

Not currently in therapy like that. He is in vision therapy. He also does chess (supposedluy good for attention and thinking ahead skills), hockey and swimming and I feel like those are good "therapies"

There is a "Finding Focus Therapeutic Skills Group" that I may send him to starting in January. BUT it's a bit of trek and expensive... And honestly I think he may be getting tired of always being in "therapy" of some sort (whichis why I backed off on it this year for things like swimming and hockey and chess - stuff he couldn't do b/c he's in therapy all of the time!)