Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Elementary School Reading Level Maxout in Elementary School?

Hoping someone who's already had this experience can guide me.

Got 4th grader's reading assessment from teacher. Turns out he's hit letter Z in reading level. Don't know his MAP-R score, but was told that it was consistent with the level. So, what happens now?

He's in a good place for this year, and teacher is working on writing with him. But how do you measure continued learning/stronger comprehension/deeper thinking and progress from here?

I think these reading levels are pretty meaningless after a point. I've had it with the obsession with Lexiles after seeing what the Lexiles are on some classics of literature, such as Steinbeck, Hemingway, etc. The real question is, is he able to discuss and analyze good books with anyone? What kind of questions are being asked about what he reads?

Is that level Fountas or Reading A-Z (or something else)? Also, if you are concerned about tracking progress, it is good that your school does MAP testing. Rising scores can give you an indication of progress and it appears that the lexiles tracked by MAP testing actually go above Fountas levels. In fact, the MAP testing report probably contains a RIT projection for your DS's next test (a "goal" of sorts). It would probably be helpful to discuss that goal and what skills he needs to acquire to reach that level (score can actually show you the "DesCartes" skills he is ready to learn).

Just to get an idea of some comparison charts:
[/url] [url=http://www.readinga-z.com/readinga-z-levels/level-correlation-chart/]Reading a-z

Tripod

DesCartes example with RIT scores:

Powray

I can understand your concern with progress, so I'd also be asking the teacher how (in addition to MAP testing) they will be measuring his progression in reading/language/literature in the future.

Just went to my DD9 (4th grade) conference today and had a similar conversation. I am not sure if they use Fountas because they call it a GRL (Guided Reading Level)but my DD is currently at W, which is as far as they "plan" to go for a student in 4th grade, but the teacher said she will research X,Y, and Z and take her as far as Z. Her STAR (AR level) test scores match her Lexile Score from the NWEA MAP Testing so I am confident she is reading and comprehending. But like you, I am also wondering what comes after Z.

Ah-- so glad that I'm not the only parent that was a little amused to note that Madame Bovary was apparently "on level" for my then-8yo.



Yeah, er-- no. Oh, she'd have understood every word. That was rather the problem. LOL.

That was the point at which I politely pointed out that they needed to stop wasting her time and mine with this nonsense, since we all knew that they weren't going to USE the information in any way anyhow, and it was more than faintly ridiculous. Voila-- no more testing of her lexile levels.

Basically, the bottom line is that there is a real LIMIT to the level of discussion which can be had with classmates (or anyone else) over books in the elementary literature. It's comprehension. Little House and the like are narrative in nature-- so once you understand what is happening in the story, what is likely to be happening OFF of the page in the world of the narrative... er... well, there just isn't a lot of "deeper" there.

It's not really "literature" until you get into more "adult" (or at least-- intended for mature readers) materials. There are a few exceptions, but the bottom line is that if you HAVE a child who is outstripping middle-grade lexiles in elementary, you are going to have to choose between keeping the child in age-appropriate materials or providing growth opportunities in literacy. Which is a higher lexile, anyway? The Old Man and the Sea? Or Mary Poppins? Which of them demands higher literacy skills? The problem is that a 10yo can fully grasp Mary Poppins just fine, but is going to think that the former is a pretty boring-- and ultimately disappointing-- book about a fishing trip, maybe written by someone who didn't understand commas or semicolons as a tool for punctuation.


That brings up matters of emotional and social readiness. We ran into some of those issues as DD (then just 8-10yo) transitioned into capital-L literature reading and analysis. She lacked life experience and the practice of deep reading, which involves a lot more about what ISN'T explicit in text selections than what IS. Children who are developmentally still quite literal/concrete have a LOT of trouble with that step.

Personally, I tend to devolve to older publication dates as a way around that, but much of that material is biased or objectionable in other ways-- but hey, at least those are things that you CAN actually dig into and discuss with children. We went through the Newbery books and honorees for a year or so.

I haven't really "monitored" my daughters GROWTH in reading terms since she was about that age. I guess I didn't much see the point once she was into young adult and adult books. I had my hands plenty full monitoring inappropriate content instead, truthfully, and as UM notes, the lexile levels go all over the place as matters of dialect, voice, and stylistic intent become commonplace.

I didn't worry about "reading level" so much as the ability to read BEYOND text, and to summarize, etc. Basically, looking at other kinds of literacy skills while DD read whatever she pleased or was assigned. That is "what's next" on the road ahead. But it tends to work best when a student is placed with others at similar level, since it doesn't happen well in a vacuum. The questions become very much less right/wrong and much more about finding evidence to support interpretation or analysis.

Only an individual classroom teacher is going to be able to say what s/he plans to do when a child outstrips the particular "system" in use in his/her classroom.

Don't know if any of that helps. After all, I really have no idea what my own lexile level is these days.

These are all good points and something I personally struggled with in 2nd grade when they were only allowing the kids to check out books from the school library that were in their Lexile (AR) range. My DD brought home a book entitled Eggs (ironically right around Easter time) and I told her I wanted to read the first chapter. When I read it, I decided the content was too mature for a 7 year old (a boy who lost his mother was hallucinating that he found a dead body covered by leaves in the woods and then he befriended a girl who was kind of dark and creepy). I am sure the book would be fine for her to read now, but at 7 it was not OK.

I had to have a discussion with the school librarian about content and at that time we opted to let her pick one book that was any range she desired (so a book she chose solely out of interest) and then the book that was in her Lexile Range could only be non fiction (when you switch to non fiction it significantly increases the difficulty level on most books). So for the past two years, she has been learning a lot about a lot of different people: Abraham Lincoln, Annie Oakley, Amelia Earhart, Martin Luther King, Dr. Seuss, and many more.

At this early age, appropriate content definitely plays a big part in reading selection, in my opinion.

Well, I think you can discuss themes and character motivation and so on even with well chosen, high quality easier books. DD did some of this even in 2nd grade when they read a book called Stone Fox. You certainly can do it with a book like Harry POtter. I'm seeing less of it this year at school, for some reason...meh. (More, instead, of the infernal "tricky" reading comp worksheets.)

But as for continuing to build their ability--enh. When you have a child reading this well at this age...it's just going to come naturally. I don't worry about this any more for either of my kids, other than to do my own homework in terms of what might work well for them, and then to strew the path with those options. (Well, this is actually quite a bit of work. But it's not focused on level as much as thinking about what they would like, what's emotionally appropriate, and what is generally in their range.)

I think that is why DD8 was assigned a "fake" lower lexile at school this year (per teacher at conferences). Her true lexile is actually higher than what she uses for searching for books in class. The teacher allows the children in the class to find and explore books on their own. They are encouraged to explore books within their "lexile-range." She was concerned about DD stumbling across books with mature or age-inappropriate content while working in the class-setting.

Could this be why my child's scores don't "match"? Her DRA is a 70 (7th grade?) and her Lexile is just under 1300. She is in 4th grade. Is her teacher perhaps just trying to keep her in more age-appropriate literature by stopping the DRA at 70?

Actually, I am rather surprised that the school is still relying on that type of reading assessment beyond 3rd grade. It isn't really helpful after mastery of basic reading. The focus should be on literary analysis by 4th grade. However, the MAP test will measure vocabulary and reading comprehension as well as literary analysis skills.