Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Hello! (intro post)

Hello all,

This is my first post here, although I have been lurking for a while. I have learned so much here, and I feel like I already know some of you. :-)

I have one son who is 5 and in kindergarten. We knew early on that he was gifted. He was also premature, so we have a double-whammy of sensory integration issues.

I had DS tested by a gifted specialist before school started when he was still four (summer birthday). He scored in the Very Superior range (I would estimate him a Level 4 according to Ruf's levels) and the gifted specialist also commented that DS was one of the most "cognitively aware" children that she had seen in a long time. I took his test scores and a portfolio to the principal last summer. There was a lot of head nodding and agreement at that meeting, but not a whole lot of action has come out of it.

He could have skipped kindergarten academically, but he did NOT do well on the assessment with the school counselor (who had no prior experience with assessments and no prior experience with gifted children). Anyway, since he needed some time to develop confidence in himself, and since kindy is more hands-on, I felt that would be easier for him to take than sitting at a desk all day in first grade. As it turns out, I think that was partially the right decision.

He has a teacher who is very fast-paced. They do very little paperwork, thank goodness, since daily coloring and tracing would probably be unbearable for him. She lets him go to the library (usually) every day to exchange his Reading Counts book, and he is grouped with the two other "readers" in the class. He receives no specialized instruction, but he has been able to advance his reading skills independently in the past five months. I think it's amazing how he figured out the phonics stuff on his own, and can now breeze through words like "Delectable Diarrheah" (in his gross science recipe book, LOL).

However, I noticed around the holidays that he is actually going backwards in math. Before school started, he was doing single digit addition and subtraction, charts & graphs, and counting by 2's, 5's, and 10's, and telling time. He lost skills in ALL of those things and more. I have started working with him for 15 minutes at night (I work full time and that's all I can squeeze in before his bedtime stories). Now he's doing word problems that add & subtract columns of numbers (no carrying yet), and understands fractions and multiplication/division concepts. For most things, if I can explain it, he can understand and retain it. The second time we visit a task, he has mastered it.

His teacher has vowed to step up the academics this semester by giving weekly spelling words. She is very independent. While the principal agreed to have a specialist pull DS out regularly for help, the teacher maintains that she can challenge him herself. I don't want to hurt her feelings, and I have been very careful to kindle a relationship with her this year. I admit she does include higher level thinking skills in her daily curriculum, but it's just not enough. If I insist on the extra help, I'm afraid she will interpret that as saying she's not adequate. She also seems to imply that DS is not as advanced as we think he is, while she doesn't seem to have a clear concept of his ability. She tests what she's supposed to test, and I don't believe she has looked at his ability above kindergarten level (except on reading assessments). He also replies with "I don't know" a lot when he actually DOES know. ;-)

So we're coping with kindergarten this year, but what happens next year in first grade? He's very shy, and won't ask for different work. He's a perfectionist, and frequently refuses to attempt a task if it won't be perfect. Handwriting is also an issue. The gifted program (if he even qualifies, since he does horrible on group administered tests), is only a one hour pull-out. We live in a very diverse area, and many of the resources are focused on ESL students. I almost feel too guilty to ask for help for my son. We have limited funds, so private school and tutoring are not good options.

I have followed along here and at SENG for a while, and have attended a state gifted conference for more insight. I read every book I can find (almost all of the books I have ever seen recommended here), but now I'm in a quandary as to the best approach. If anyone has input or ideas for me, I would appreciate it! DS is becoming more and more unhappy as the school year progresses, and I just can't quite figure this out!

Thanks so much for reading this novella. LOL! I have wanted for a while to jump in at some other posts, but I felt that I should introduce myself first.

Christi

Hi Christi,

Thank you for the excellent introduction. I feel that I already know you too!

We discuss the situations of many advanced five and six year olds on this board. I�m glad you found us!

It�s a shocking and difficult time when you realize that your bright and happy child, whom you assumed would soar once they started school, is not well matched for the typical classroom.

When my daughter was in your son�s situation, I was constantly told that first grade really kicks in the academics. Until reading Dr. Rufs book, I felt that I was lied to. More recently, I am beginning to realize that my kids really are extremely different from the �norm�. In any case, what the school considered challenging for first grade and what my daughter considered challenging were not even close!

You mentioned that you place your son at a level 4 on the Ruf scale. That is unusually high! Most regular school gifted programs are not designed for level 4 children. If you cannot consider private school or tutor right now, you should definitely begin to educate the administration and teachers regarding the probable need for acceleration within the next two years. Maybe you could donate your books to the teacher�s resource library. One grade skip within the same school should hardly cause an academic ripple for the child. Really! The most prominent obstacle could be the attitudes of the school personnel and possibly other parents.

I really hope your school district is not one of the many that are opposed to grade advancement under any circumstances. If they are, you must determine whether this opposition is due to political or philosophical reasons. (The will never admit the political NCLB reason). If it based on philosophical reasons then they can learn of all the new studies that demonstrate that grade advancement it is often necessary and conversely, keeping highly gifted kids at grade level may be detrimental.

Diana

Christi,
Have you looked at religious private schools? They are much less expensive than other private schools.

Have you considered homeschooling, or homeschooling by proxy? The time commitment is much less than 6 hours per day!

What book that you read seemed the most "right on" to you?

Best Wishes,
Trin

Thank you for the quick replies!

Trinity -- Ideally (and is this even possible?), I'd like to homeschool him part-time. If he could go to school for a few hours, then come home for some instruction, we'd have the best of both worlds. If we were to do just homeschooling, I'm afraid he'd go back to his old OCD and anti-social behaviors, which he exhibited when he didn't have enough daily interaction with kids...Something about being with other kids makes those problems dissolve and puts a confident bounce in his step.

Once we get over the financial shock of 1) my pregnancy bedrest & not working, 2) staying home from work with a sick baby for almost 2 years, and 3) paying for all the medical care and therapy, I hope to stay at home at least part time and then I can explore the homeschool option more. Perhaps I could take in a few toddlers during the daytime to help pay bills. Right now, we're just trying to get something back into savings. We are taking extreme measures right now, and have even moved in with my parents to reduce our bills. (So you can see why we are so motivated to get out of this financial situation, LOL!)

As for the religious private schools, I have a bitter taste. I went to Catholic schools during my childhood, and they were not good. Locally, the schools who could make any difference to DS are way out of our range. For now, my best hope is to make things work in public school without burning too many bridges.

Re: books. I shed quite a few tears and had several "AHA" moments over Jim Delisle's Parenting Gifted Kids: Tips for Raising Happy and Successful Children. I loved his chapter on OE's! I can't leave out Genius Denied and also Re-Forming Gifted Education, because those are my favorite resources.

Diana -- I know what you mean about the shock. My mother was a first grade teacher for 19 years, and started teaching fifth this year. She knows what DS will be exposed to next year in first grade (if that's where he goes), and she just can't see him there. Even a skip to second grade would only be a temporary solution. And he already has attention problems due to sensory issues.

I remember when he was about 15 months and we were at a noisy restaurant. He kept saying, "What's that...Louder? What's that...Louder?" We finally figured out he was hearing the ice machine in the kitchen on the opposite side of the restaurant (he called any noise "louder"). The restaurant was so loud that we could hardly hear each other talking across the table, but he was completely focused on this faint ice machine sound from the kitchen.

That sensitivity is what he deals with in the classroom, and I know it will continue to cause problems. He needs someone to just redirect him to the task at hand, but he won't get that in a classroom setting. So for now, it's a good thing for him to "learn" things at school that he has already learned at home...I think?

Thanks again!

Christi

This may seem like a strange question unless you've read our story, but does the school have walls?

Yes, the school has walls. It's a typical school with a kindy wing, first grade wing, up through fourth grade. They have about six classrooms per grade with 20ish students per class.

I'll have to look up your story tomorrow when I have some time. I'm guessing it either has to do with noise & distractions, or maybe flexibility with ability-grouped classes. Am I close? ;-)

Thanks!

Christi

My daughter is easily distracted and/or annoyed by auditory stimulus. ADHD has been ruled out by MDs and PhDs. The public school she attended, which we left 5 years ago, has no walls between the classrooms. The fact that she was extremely under-challenged combined with the noise and tendency to tune into other classes made for a crabby kid (with us, never the teacher) by the final bell.

Her teachers did not see a problem because she was a pleasant, compliant, A student.

Diana,

I definitely see what you mean about distractions. I'm afraid DS is distracted enough even with walls. I recently observed and assisted with his class for a day, and he had a hard time paying attention. I don't blame him, after seeing what he has to sit through while the other kids learn the alphabet.

In preschool, he learned to count to 100 by tens. I thanked the preschool teacher for covering that with him, and she looked surprised...She didn't cover it. He overheard a table of the school-age students across the room and picked it up himself.

This is a kid who, at barely four years old, overheard DH and me discussing an offer on our home from a prospective buyer. The offer was too low, and DS piped up from his backseat booster that the buyer should use a different mortgage company that had lower closing costs. Thereby giving them more money to offer us for the house. This is where my husband nearly drove off the road and whispered, "I wish he would say this stuff in front of other people so they wouldn't think we're making it all up".

So I'm afraid in DS's case, he will not appear to be a perfect student. At school he maintains a stoic expression, monotone voice, and he has dark circles under his eyes that make him look sick all the time. This is 100% different than his bubbly at-home charisma. I'm glad I get to see the happy version, but it's a shame that so few people get a real glimpse of him.

At the very least, our district appears to be okay with skipping a grade if he shows mastery at that level (how that is assessed remains to be seen), and if that happens, I think it might buy us a couple more years in public school.

Thanks,

Christi

Have you met my son? YOu are describing him very well! One reason that I took action for my daughter, is that I knew my son would not be a favored student-especially when under-challenged!

LOL - DS10 had that stoic expression in 2nd grade too. I actually was naive enough to practice with him in front of the mirror! Boy, was I missing the boat back then.....

Doing better now...
Trinity

LOL! Hooray for sullen boys! I just have to laugh, because when we're at school functions or birthday parties, the other parents must think he's miserable.

DS brought home his schoolwork this week, and on one page there was a (defensive?) sticky note, "He chose this. He had a choice". DS said he chose it because ALL the other kids were doing it and he didn't want to be the only different one. The objective was to cut out about six missing alphabet letters and glue them in the right place in the alphabet. *sigh*

At home this week, we read the first chapters of The Number Devil and he was fascinated at the concept that numbers are infinitely large AND infinitely small. He has spent the past few days with questions to challenge that. Very tiring answering those questions because I don't find math 'fun'. But The Number Devil is a GREAT book and I'm learning a lot. Hee!

I also realized this week that I really believe DS needs to skip first grade. I have been so conservative with the grade skip subject, and I understand now that many of my reservations have been due to peer pressure. I have decided not to discuss it with my peers, and to make no apologies to school administration. It is the way it is. I have grown a backbone!

The biggest factor for me was my mother. She has taught first grade for 19 years, and she said there is no way they can do anything for him in first. When he was going into kindergarten, she had the opinion that he shouldn't skip due to emotional issues. Now that she feels the time is right, I am more certain that a skip is vital this year.

I have also told my husband that public school is probably only going to work for a few more years. In a few months (okay, several months), we should have our savings back to a place where we can have our own house built in this same neighborhood. I will work out a way to be home, at least part of the time, for DS. And if we have to eventually homeschool all the way, I will find some way to make it happen.

It's so great to have a place where people understand! I actually had people accuse me of lying about my son's abilities. That hurt! I initially went into internet hibernation, then I got really angry, and now I don't give a darn who believes me or not. But I still don't talk about DS to my peers, which stinks.

Hugs,

Christi

Christi,
My guess is that we're your peers, dear - LOL! If you could talk to your aquaintences about DS, then they would be your peers, too.

I'm not saying that they aren't your intellectual peers, I'm saying that they aren't your peers in willingness to be open-minded, and actually care about someone else's child independent of their own insecurities about their own child. I have met many Moms of Special Needs Kids and Neurotypical Kids who are completely supportive of my struggle to find a way to get DS10's needs met. I am very blessed.

Congradulations about growing that backbone! LOL, who says that bone growth peaks in the teen years!

Also kudos to your Mom - It's so wonderful to have family members who understand and stand up for you. Many of us have family members who "just don't see what the big deal is." ((shrug))

Enjoy - Enjoy - Enjoy! You have so many blessings in your life!
Trinity

I'm brand spanking new to the boards. It seems like all of you are so knowledgeable and can probably help me. We have an 8 year old daughter. Like many of you both my husband and I felt and still do that she is very smart. I hesitate in using the word gifted because I don't know for sure. She is an only child so I can't compare her intelligence to that of another. Maybe you can help. I don't even know where to start. Maybe at the beginning. When she was born she was immediately whisked away to NICU. I did not get to see her (only briefly) for an entire 24 hours after giving birth. When I finally did she immediately turned towards me and smiled when she heard my voice. She did so for quite some time that it stirred quite a reaction from the staff. Our bond was instantaneous; I felt it and I know she did too. As a baby she was VERY good. From the first night we brought her home she slept the entire night. I actually made a call to the pediatrician to ask if I should wake her for feedings, I was told to do so until one day I wisened up and thought if she's hungry she'll let me know. Fast forward a few months: one day at about 7 or 8 months old I was walking around the house like a crazy woman trying to find my keys. And just like moms do I asked her rhetorically as to the whereabouts of my keys. She immediately crawled to the armoire and placed her hand on it. Just for the fun of it I opened the door and voila my car keys were in that most awkward place. Around that age, too she initiated a game with me. She was in her crib at the time with a few of her stuffed toys. She would toss a toy out of the crib and I'd run to pick it up, she'd do it again and so would I. Well I thought I'd let her toss her toys without a reaction from me to see what she'd do. Well one toy landed on the floor then another and another until they were all gone. At discovering she had nothing left to toss without hesitation she immediately pulled off her sock, tossed it, and then the other. I swear she spent no time figuring out what to do. It just came to her. Fast forward again: as a toddler she would put things together. Many upon many times I'd be reading instructions as she would figure it out on her own. She's still very mechanical. I depend on her a lot. She also had and still has a great memory. Before the age of two she was reciting Robert Browning. I didn't know she had memorized several verses of one of his poems until one day I showed her a rose and off she went reciting 'Women and roses'. She did the same thing with Bible books. I was saying them and got stuck when here she chimed in. Present day: she's a great kid. Very well liked and does well in school. She's in second grade and thus far has made A Honor Roll. She does have problems writing though. She can come up with vivid stories (she has a great imagination) but cannot seem to write her thoughts down on paper. This is hard for her and therefore gets so frustrated. She's great at math although lately I've noticed careless mistakes when the work is done at school. I can't figure that one out yet. Her teachers always comment on her excellent conduct and never fail to mention my DD downfall which is perfectionism. Due to this she takes a long time to complete her work. Her teacher suggested I take her to see a Developmental Pediatrician for this, has anyone else been suggested to do the same? I homeschooled last year and our challenge was similar; she would take an eternity to complete her work. She would daydream and start thinking about her passion....animals. She made all A's and would grasp EVERYTHING instantly. As far as her education was concerned she was learning a lot; so was I. I placed her in public school (we can't afford a private school)this year thinking she would grow up in other areas, social skills mainly. She is so sensitive when others are to even look at her unfavorably. It may be so minute to me but to her it's a major ordeal; I respect that though,I don't belittle her feelings. She has matured a lot this school year in this respect so I think placing her in school was good for this reason ONLY. Academically she has regressed BIG time. What I mean by this is that she doesn't have much interest for learning this year. She says it's all baby stuff (she covered the same info in homeschooling last year). Actually I had no idea public school was so behind. Anyway if it wasn't for the social interaction I know she wouldn't want to go. It's boring she says. This is a child whose love last year was studying about the American Revolution and who spent months completely downhearted at the injustice of slave trade. She wept with deep emotion when we studied about this. And guess what we are not African American. Injustice affects her tremendously. She loves watching the news but I don't have her watch it too frequently because she takes a lot of it to heart especially when it's related to the mistreatment of children or animals. I want her to be compassionate, sympathetic and empathetic, too but it affects her to the point of having nightmares. Sorry I got sidetracked. As I was saying last year she had passion for what we were learning and yet this year has had no reaction to education. I desperately want to know if she's gifted because if she is then maybe she can be challenged at school; take the classes the gifted children are provided. I think if her teacher suspected this about our DD she would have mentioned it to us and yet she hasn't. I'm also afraid that if our DD is tested and we find out she isn't gifted then how will this news affect her? I don't want her to think of herself as less than those who are. And yet if she is, what will this label mean to her? What do I do? Please help. I'm so confused and honestly don't know where to turn. Aside from my husband this is not a topic I've discussed with anyone until now....thanks for listening.

What a beautiful story you tell! I really believe that knowledge is power and that the first step is to have your daughter tested. Some school districts will do it upon parental request (althought they can take a long time to get it done); some districts routinely screen 2nd graders and then test only those who scored high in screening. My personal recommendation is to look into privately testing her. I know you said you can't afford private school, but it will provide quick, thorough results and testing at your daughter's best schedule. Depending on what diagnosticians charge in your area, it is worthwhile. If you cannot do that, be the pesky mom at the public school gifted admin office.

It is widely thought that parents are the best ones to refer their kids for giftedness. Don't worry about it, just get her assessed so that she can access services offered by the district.

My profoundly gifted 8 yr old son made careless mistakes on math (at one point I thought it was just being bored with the material). He also did not like to write (his handwriting was horrible and he would resist it, preferring to dictate to me). His homework would take him much longer than it was supposed to (I would estimate a 20-minute assignment would take him up to 2 hrs). A few months ago we went through a very difficult time assessing whether he was ADD. We started him on medication and almost instantly we noted several things: his handwriting noticeably improved immediately and he is willing to write long passages; his homework was finished quickly and independently; he was always an advanced reader, but would only read 20 pages at a time--suddenly he was able to read 130 pages. I know this sounds like I'm singing praises for medicating one's child, but it was very difficult for us. It might be something to keep in the back of your mind. The number one benefit for my son is that his entire interaction with his parents was either being corrected, rebuked (for bugging or hurting his brothers), or just yelled at...it was becoming entirely negative. It is not at all that way anymore.

Good luck with your daughter. Keep us posted

Dear Love My Baby,
Thanks for sharing your story with us. I want to hear everything about her that you can think of.

You bring up an interesting point -
"What is giftedness, anyway?"

I have never found any agreement on a definition, so I started asking a new qustion - "What are my son's needs, and How can I best get my son's needs met?"

In my situation, learning about gifteness really helped me understand what my son's needs might be, and what some ways of meeting them might be.

Here's what I think Giftedness is: A developmental path, which is different enought from Neurotypical Children, such that all the regular services a school sucessfully provides for other children of a similar age, and all the "common wisdom" about Child Development lead to frustration for all concerned.

((How about that! LOL!))

I see Gifteness as a Special Educational Need. But I also see that a compliant child who is getting all As but hates the academic component of school is suffering and not having her needs met, and if fact harm is being done to her - which you have to understand, most teacher will not percieve. Loving "being engaged with the challenge of learning" is not a counsious part of the goals for public education.

I don't think that a test can tell you that your child ISN'T gifted. It can, at best, confirm your suspicions. Similarly, if you child taught herself to read as a preschooler, a book like Dr.Ruf's Losing Our Minds, can help you better understand your child and confirm your suspicions. But my son, aged 10, scores as gifted overall, profoundly gifted in his verbal skills, and didn't learn to read until 1st grade.

I don't think you should even entertain sharing the results with your child of any IQ test, one way or the other. You could simply say: "I've noticed that school isn't a good fit for you, because you aren't learning to love being engaged with the challenge of learning. We want to get some help in figuring out what needs to change so that we can put you in a school that will met your needs."

Of course we in the US are raised in a "better than/worse than" world. But if you focus on "finding a way to make school and your daughter fit" then you can sidestep that whole issue. At our house, we always go back to the flowers blooming at their own rate. What would happen to the bees if all the flowers bloomed during two weeks in August? In the natural world, differences always make the whole stronger.

I don't know what a Developmental Peditrician is, but perhaps this is your teacher's subtle way of asking you for an IQ test?

Since you have homeschooled in the past, you are at a great advantage. You know lots of things about your daughter that you wouldn't know if you didn't have that backround. She also is likely to rely on you in a particular way that homeschool builds. Good for you!

What if IQ tests are too expensive? Some alternative ways of getting the information are "above level tests" given through the various talent searches. Another possibility is the NWEA's MAP test, which you would have to travel to a school that gives it. I have also heard that there are ways for homeschoolers to give the standardised tests at home. If you can track this down, then just give your daughter one, two or three years above her agegroups test. If she does really well a year of two above her age, then she's definitly gifted. If not, well you still don't know.


My last tip: Start encouraging her to learn correct typing. I started bribing my son, off and on, at age 7, and by age 9 he was 50 wpm with his eyes away from the keyboard. This written product problem is very very common amoung young people with alot to say. Let's face it: If you had had to handwrite your above post, do you think it would have been as long, detailed and spontanious? Or would you have written: "Please help me, I'm not sure what to do, I want to learn more about gifted."

And would I be answering you at this length? Probably not - sad to say.

Another wonderful idea is to call your state university and ask if there is someone for parents to talk to about giftedness, and you state gifted association may have a hotline.

BTW - What books have your read? Which ones are in your library system. Post here and we'll give reccomendations as to where to start. "A Nation Decieved" is free to request over the internet and has lots of good information.

Love and More Love,
TRinity

Thanks to all! You've given me a lot of information to ponder. As far as books, Trinity I have none. I only started my research on the gifted. If you can recommend one to aid me in deciphering whether she is or isn't I would be very appreciative.

Cym, I'm so happy your son is doing great now. I've questioned from time to time if perhaps my DD lives with the challenge of ADD. Her pediatrician doesn't think so but had me fill out a preliminary questionnaire for my own peace of mind. It did not seem to apply to my DD. Her conduct is extraordinary; she recently was awarded a medal at a school assembly for excellent character, she's very calm (always has been), and stays focused on things SHE enjoys.

My daughter's interests are varied. She adores music but doesn't care for the piano. I teach her that anyway only to challenge her mind. She's determined (has been since two or so) to learn the flute but I can't find anyone who teaches the flute to a child her age. She absolutely loves to sing and has a pretty voice (even as a very young child). The three of us take French classes and she does a lot better than my husband (I have some French background) although this isn't surprising since most children are capable of learning a new language at a much more rapid speed than an adult anyway. But her main interest are animals. She enjoys going to the Humane Society. Our problem is prying her away. She goes bonkers if we're driving and she spots a stray dog. She will go from this very calm and respectful little girl to a state of insanity at the fact we won't stop to rescue it. She becomes very concerned about it getting injured. She'll talk about it for days. I guess what I'm saying is that whatever her interest may be, becomes a passion and whatever she dislikes she abhors. There's rarely a middle. I don't know if any of this is at all related to being gifted or if perhaps she's just an interesting but ordinary kid.

Many of you speak of spotting giftedness early on because your child learned to read. My daughter did not start reading until she began kindergarten. She started doing Math at about one but had no interest in learning to read. To my dismay this is an area she still doesn't enjoy. She's a good reader and knows well that reading is part of our daily routine so she concedes but rarely on her own is prompted to pick up a book. This hurts because I've enjoyed reading and writing all of my life. I've come to terms with the fact though that she is her own little person and that her likes and dislikes do not have to reflect those of my own.

There are a few children I know who are labeled gifted and yet they don't seem to be much different than my daughter. As I sit here and write I'm discovering that all her friends she prefers to spend time with are gifted. They're all older, too. And yet neither one of them learned to read early on either (I thought of your son, Trinity). Recently a friend of hers said they were learning state capitals in her gifted class. My daughter knows the state capitals not because she's smart but because I chose to teach her. Can anyone explain to me what exactly a gifted class covers that a regular curriculum does not? I question too if perhaps most children are gifted in one area or another and the school system holds them all back to accommodate the few who aren't up to their speed YET? And if so, is this fair? Rather than testing for those who are gifted should we not be testing for those who are not?

As you can see I'm so confused. Our school district tests for giftedness twice a year and a parent can choose to nominate their child to be tested. After reading your posts we will take into consideration having her tested. I like your idea about obscuring the outcome from her.

I've given you some insight to my little girl. Gifted or not I'll continue to fill her little life with knowledge and experiences to stimulate her young fresh brain. As loving parents, don't we all have the same responsibility?

My thanks to all of you!!!!

Lovemybaby writes:
"She's determined (has been since two or so) to learn the flute but I can't find anyone who teaches the flute to a child her age"

Look into Suzuki method, very popular in the US. They start kids as young as 2/3 years old, have special curved flutes that grow with a child. Same goes for a violin. I gave my daughter violin (1/16)for her second birthday because she was trying to play with mine. She started proper lessons at the age of 3 and half but already knew how to handle and make sound on a violin. Those instruments are not very expensive but open up a world of new experiences ;-)
Ania

Lovemybaby writes:
"Many of you speak of spotting giftedness early on because your child learned to read. My daughter did not start reading until she began kindergarten. She started doing Math at about one but had no interest in learning to read. To my dismay this is an area she still doesn't enjoy. She's a good reader and knows well that reading is part of our daily routine so she concedes but rarely on her own is prompted to pick up a book. This hurts because I've enjoyed reading and writing all of my life. I've come to terms with the fact though that she is her own little person and that her likes and dislikes do not have to reflect those of my own"

My daughter was very similar in that aspect. We are a family of readers and writers. My older son is a voracious reader plus he reads EXTREMELY fast. My daughter, even though a very good and competent reader (was always at least three grades ahead on her reading skills)never seemed to enjoy it until.... we changed schools and her new school started to reward her for her reading. Last fall my daughter has read Watership Down for her book report on animal fiction (she is a fourth grader). She reads on her own all the time now.
So lovemybaby, have faith, things do change....
Ania

Hi lovemybaby!

The others have given you some great advice, and I'd like to chime in with my experiences on the Developmental Pediatrician. My son had to go every six months to a DP since he was born premature and therefore at risk for developmental delays.

I found that the DP's that DS saw were not_at_all experienced with gifted tendencies or asynchronous development. It seemed like they were experts on the needs of kids at the complete opposite end of the spectrum, and just weren't prepared to help with our needs. As a matter of fact, once they learned that DS was gifted, they seemed to think that all of his developmental issues had just melted away.

Even though DS still needed help with sensory integration, we stopped going. The final straw was the last appointment where I was warned that DS might have a non-verbal learning disability and Asperger's. This decision was made because his Verbal scores were extremely high on the WPPSI, while his Non-Verbal scores were unusually and significantly lower (yet in the moderately gifted range). This difference, the doctor reasoned, must be due to some problem. Since DS doesn't have symptoms that point to NVLD or Asperger's, I came to my own conclusion that the doctor was full of bull.

I found that a good Occupational Therapist was much more effective in helping us fine-tune DS's learning environment and in dealing with his SI issues.

So if you decide to go the Developmental Ped route, make sure to find one who is not only familiar with gifted issues, but also works with gifted children on a regular basis. Otherwise, they might be looking for explanations of problems when there really isn't a problem at all.

Good luck!

Christi

Hi Lovemybaby! Welcome!

You said:
As you can see I'm so confused. Our school district tests for giftedness twice a year and a parent can choose to nominate their child to be tested. After reading your posts we will take into consideration having her tested. I like your idea about obscuring the outcome from her.


This is good news. I hope the school testing gives you some good information. ((Remember - you are looking for a reading of her "floor" not her "ceiling." ok?))

I really like Deb Ruf's Losing our Minds, Gifted Children Left Behind, and would reccomend it as an "intro to gifted" book. If it's not too embarrassing, LOL, just head down to your Public Library and start pulling books off the shelves with Gifted in their title. If it is too embarrassing, go to a neighboring town! ((wink)) Tell us what you've been reading and what you think.

Your daughter certianly has the intensities that come with being Gifted. Is she or isn't she? Only a private test with a tester who is familiar with Gifted will really be able to tell. On the other hand, one definition of Gifted is ready to learn the things a child of an older age is typically ready to learn, so when you were homeschooling, what do you think her response to Calvert material from a year above her or two years above her would have been?

Remember that there isn't any prize in life from being the smartest or finishing elementary school first - the prize is for the children who learn to enjoy the struggle of learning.

Best Wishes,
Trinity

Trinity writes:
"the prize is for the children who learn to enjoy the struggle of learning"

I love it !!! That is what it all comes to!
Ania

Trinity,

Thanks so much for all your sage comments and advise.

This topic of giftedness stirs a lot of anxiety within me. With knowledge comes a great deal of responsibility to take action. And action takes a great deal of time, effort, heartache, frustration, labor, financial resources, and courage. However as loving parents, isn't it true that we will do anything for our child even if it means opening up Pandora's box and facing whatever lurks inside? I do know in my heart it's vital that our family finds out for sure so as to educate ourselves in finding the best way to approach our DD's learning needs.

You asked if she would have been capable of handling an upper grade in Calvert. I think so because everything I taught her she would absorb immediately. I mentioned to some (not many at all because I always feel others think I'm bragging) how easy it was for me to teach because of how quickly she learns. Her only problem is staying focused in her least favorite subject (writing). I've mentioned before how she finds it very difficult. The pencil can't seem to keep up with her brain and imagination. And when she tries to write her thoughts cannot seem to flow on paper as well as they do verbally. So reverting back to your question, Trinity I think she could keep up in a higher Calvert grade level but not in writing, yet I can't say for sure because I haven't taken that approach. Oh and by the way I mentioned to her if she would like to spend more time learning to type as you suggested. She agreed to it after some grunting remarks about how boring and repetitive her computer class is at school. Thanks for the idea!

I have another question for you (ok maybe two or three) do gifted children excell in every subject? Is there anything that doesn't come easy? Do they have superior memories all of the time? All right I'll head over to the library tomorrow and get those books you listed. If you have some of those answers I'd love your input.

Thanks everybody!!!

Hi Lovemybaby,
These are excellent questions.

Here's a phrase I think you will like: Asynchronous Development. It's a way of seeing giftedness as a special educational need. A child's development doesn't follow the normal course. It's advanced in some areas and and normal in other areas. A child's strength areas can be seen as a disavantage because when given age-appropriate academic material, the child isn't stimulated to learn the age-appropriate academic skills, such as organisation, studying, time management, and "learning to enjoy the struggle of learning."

I like the Asynchronous Development idea because it fits so well with current American Culture - "I'm a victim. I need help! I have a problem, can you help me solve it?" It feels safer than the mental definition of Gifted I grew up with. I think it's only one side of the coin.

I've developed this Asynchronous Development idea into a perspective of my own. When I look at a gifted child to try to figure out what they need, I mentally organize their abilities into three main areas, listing as many details as I can, seeking to fill in the details more fully in the future. Here goes -

Knowledge - Overall how much does this child know? How does it compare to children older or younger than her? Are there specific areas of tremendously advanced knowledge? What are they?

Skills - If you just saw them do a particulat skill, of hat "age" would they seem typial? Typing, Handwriting, Math facts and procedures, reading level, negotiating teasing and sharing, cooking, using silverware, playing an instrument are some of the "I can do it/I'm still practicing" things in life that may or may not be advanced.

Thinking - These are the little stories of how a child's mind seems to understand things without being taught. How they might leap head of other children in their understanding with a bit of teaching and information. How they ask questions about the meaning of life that most children of their age ask at a much later age. The creativity they use to connect ideas and ask more questions. Has the children hit age-assigned milestones early. How does the child react to the conversation of children who are older?

So Lovemybaby, that's the "big picture" of how to look at a child and figure out - Do they need a full, or multiple, or single subject grade skip? Will they need an individualized homeschool program with writing at age level, but other things years ahead? Should you look for afterschool activities with agemates, older kids, or a mix?

It's a lot of information, but there isn't any rush to fill in the blanks, and you already know a lot about your daughter. You have so much at your fingertips already. And of course, the answers are always changing - when she learns to type you may see that she isn't Asynchronous at all - she may become very typical of a child one or five years older, in many many respects.

LOL - DS10 and I were having a joke last night, about a pill, that if you took it, you magically became "all one age" physically, hormonally, as well as mentally. Like he'd wake up tommorow having forgoted several vocabulary words and his voice having dropped an octave! We had the idea that the pill would somehow "take the average" of one's ages and "even things out." We got a pretty good laught out of that one, and decided not to rush things.

((big smile and hug))
Trinity