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    I attended the open house at the school of my daughter, who is in 2nd grade. Booklets that students wrote about themselves were on the wall, and they contained lots of spelling mistakes. I think even in 2nd grade, errors in writing should be corrected (especially when it will be displayed), not because one expects perfection from 7-year-olds but because children learn from fixing their mistakes. I suppose this makes me a critic of "invented spelling". Is there research to support my skepticism? When my daughter writes stories at home she often asks me how to spell words. She wants to get things right.

    My daughter's teacher is unlikely to start correcting the work of her "authors", as she referred to them at open house. Any suggestions on how to correct the work our daughter brings home without demoralizing her?

    Last edited by Bostonian; 10/04/13 06:16 AM. Reason: corrected typo in a post about spelling
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    This makes me crazy. I don't know of any research, though. DD is now in 4th and I see more correction, but not as much as I would like.

    I don't know that I would correct the work your daughter brings home after it is graded. Do you have an opportunity to check homework? I always have DD fix spelling and punctuation mistakes there.

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    Maybe tell her that once or twice a week you and she are going to pick some of her writing for publication. Then have her make a clean copy with whatever corrections she needs to do and put the work in a place of honor.

    Frankly, this is what the teacher should be doing for work she intends to "publish" on the classroom wall.

    Last edited by Kai; 10/04/13 06:53 AM.
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    this drives me nuts, too. DD is just 5, but we literally had a spelling test this morning - i didn't care if she got the words right the first time (which she did) but we went through and talked about each word and why it was correct. the entire point is to learn how spelling works - so when she does get a word wrong, she'll treat it the exact same way.

    way back when i was first looking at schools, i literally decided against the neighbourhood one for this exact reason: on registration day, i saw Grade 6 work posted on the walls that was riddled with both factual and spelling errors - and that's just not "good copy" to me. if it's "finished" - it should be correct. i really hope someone does find some research on this, so that everyone who needs it can bring it in as ammunition. sigh.

    Last edited by doubtfulguest; 10/04/13 06:36 AM.

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    Maybe the teachers are scared they'll do a Dan Quayle.

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    There's research that supports invented spelling as a good tool to support typical learners. I think this another but more subtle gifted versus mainstream issue. For typical learners with layers of slowly evolved skills accumulated through repeated practice this makes sense as the process used to discover phonemic rules involves some early mistakes to build to future exceptions.

    The process is lock in the basic concept then add the exceptions. Just like kids who add -ed to every past tense word or -s for every plural as a natural phase.

    Now if my DS who pattern matches and makes confident guesses at words has no immediate correction, he is going to near-permanently remember his misspelling. And those are hard to unstick.

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    I tend to agree that those uncorrected items there on the wall are literally billboards advertising the work of a bad teacher.

    Using the original as a draft and then working through the corrections for the 'production' copy to be displayed on the wall would bea far better approach for everyone IMO


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    Underlining is what I was taught. We were taught to teach our students to try the word and underline it if they weren't sure if about the spelling. But to keep going with the draft. On the second draft the child takes the time to correct spelling and add the word(s) to the his/her personal word list.

    The teacher does the same thing when checking work, underlines misspelled words. Depending on situation sometimes providing the correct spelling, sometimes helping the child to look it up.

    Last edited by Sweetie; 10/04/13 09:10 AM. Reason: Spelling mistake due to auto correct

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    I could be wrong, but I feel like, for the most part, when things were hung in the school hallway, the kids did a first draft that the teacher corrected, then they did a final draft that went up in the hallway... I'm sure it just depends on the school and teacher.


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    The study cited by Moomin looks at college students at the University of Minnesota studying German, and its conclusions may not apply to elementary school children in the U.S. learning their native language.

    Last edited by Bostonian; 10/04/13 08:01 AM. Reason: Corrected statements about study subjects.
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    I'd have to tentatively agree with Bostonian that that study can't really be applied to elementary students learning English. It's also quite old. There could, of course, be newer studies showing the same sort of thing.

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    Originally Posted by Sweetie
    Underlining is what I was taught. We were taught to teach our students to try the word and underline it if they weren't sure if about the spelling. But to keep going with the draft. On the second draft the child takes the time to correct speeding and add the word(s) to the his/her personal word list.

    The teacher does the same thing when checking work, underlines misspelled words. Depending on situation sometimes providing the correct spelling, sometimes helping the child to look it up.


    That really seems like a great technique. smile


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    I will say, seeing an unpolished, uncorrected collection of writing from DS's class posted last year was very helpful in understanding how far out his writing issues were.


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    Originally Posted by Bostonian
    ... lots of spelling mistakes... children learn from fixing their mistakes. I suppose this makes me a critic of "invented spelling"... My daughter's teacher is unlikely to start correcting the work of her "authors", as she referred to them at open house.
    I'm with you on this. However with the current trend toward keyboarding and word processing, and less emphasis on handwritten work it seems more teachers are counting on their students to use spell check programs... just as more students are crunching numbers with calculators and no longer doing much math in their heads or on paper.

    Notable exception, when looking at spelling throughout the educational career: Standardized test essays such as AP and ACT are still handwritten (at the moment)... this is different than calculators being allowed on (some) standardized tests.

    Originally Posted by Bostonian
    ... Any suggestions on how to correct the work our daughter brings home without demoralizing her?
    To help a child with spelling while not demoralizing him/her, I've heard of first complimenting the work... then asking for help reading it, then asking if they want to learn the dictionary spelling of any words you found difficult to read (because they were written phonetically). If they want to know... great. If they don't want to know, at least you've raised their awareness that
    1) there is a correct spelling
    2) they can easily see what the correct spelling is
    3) others may find phonetic spelling difficult to read
    By piquing their curiosity, eventually the child's curiosity may win out and they may want to know the correct spelling.

    Here is a humorous poem about spell checkers... (and my pet peeve, auto-correct which is more like auto-sabotage!)...
    http://www.latech.edu/tech/liberal-arts/geography/courses/spellchecker.htm

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    Oh, yes--I think it is generally an intentional pedagogic position.

    I just took a look through Google Scholar myself and found surprisingly little, which sometimes means that something is an unexamined sacred cow.

    I also like the method Sweetie describes. smile

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    I think the teacher's not correcting spelling is intentional.
    She said they use a curriculum of Lucy Calkins to teach writing. An article critical of her approach (although some commenters at the site defend it) is

    http://educationnext.org/the-lucy-calkins-project/
    The Lucy Calkins Project
    Education Next
    SUMMER 2007
    By Barbara Feinberg

    The spelling curriculum is Sitton Spelling, about which I complained in an earlier thread "spelling curriculum" http://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/BB/ubbthreads.php/topics/126178/Re_spelling_curriculum.html .


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    The research clearly supports invented spelling. However, the research doesn't support that teachers shouldn't teach how to spell correctly. In fact, the teacher's role is to move students from emerging literacy to conventional literacy. This should certainly be the case by second grade.

    You'll have to take on this role since the teacher isn't. You don't want to correct your DD's work. Instead, ask her what words she's unsure of, help her to sound out and create approximate spellings, and teach her how to use a good children's dictionary to confirm her spelling or correct it.

    These are two good articles. I teach writing at a university, so a pre-K specialist may be able to lead you to more current studies.

    “Invention, Convention, and Intervention: Invented Spelling and the Teacher's Role” by Lawrence R. Sipe
    Reading Teacher, 55:3, Nov. 2001: 264-73.

    Abstract: Highlights the teacher's critical role in spelling instruction and provides examples of how to support spelling development in classrooms. Argues that educators need to look closely at children's emerging capacities as writers, focusing especially on the issue of invented spelling, and its use and misuse in classroom practices.


    “Effects of Various Early Writing Practices on Reading and Spelling” by Laurence Rieben, Ladislas Ntamakiliro, Brana Gonthier, and Michel Fayol
    Scientific Studies of Reading, 9:2, Apr 2005: 145-166

    Abstract: The effects of different early word spelling practices on reading and spelling were studied in 145 five-year-old children. Three experimental treatments were designed to mimic different teaching activities by having children practice invented spelling (IS group), copied spelling (CS group), or invented spelling with feedback on correct orthography (ISFB group), whereas a control group only made drawings (D group). The main results indicate that (a) children in the ISFB group obtained significantly higher scores in the orthographic aspects of spelling and word reading than children in the IS and CS groups, (b) the superiority of the ISFB group did not extend to phonological aspects of reading and spelling, and (c) the performance of the IS and CS groups was not significantly better than that of the D group. These results suggest that neither invented spelling alone nor copied spelling alone is as effective as the practice of invented spelling combined with exposure to correct spelling.

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    We are encountering this with DD7 this year. She turns out, to my mortification, to be an atrocious speller -- at least, in her written work. Her spelling tests are nearly perfect, and the ones she misses there are clearly because she mis-heard the word and spelled a different one rather than because she misspelled the correct word. Her papers, and sentences, are riddled with errors, generally of omission but sometimes of her version of phonetic spelling. Once in a while, the teacher corrects something by writing above the word, but most of the things she brings home are raw. I shudder to think what we're going to see hanging on the wall at parent-teacher conferences.

    I am NOT a fan of "invented spelling", and I think it's obvious anywhere you go that decades of teachers not correcting spelling has led to a nation of people who can't spell cat without a dictionary -- and don't know how to look it up there, either. The problem with any failed curriculum is that it doesn't take long before the kids it was tried on become the teachers of the next bunch.

    I do tell DD the correct spelling of things, and I'm still trying to figure out whether laziness and speed is a large factor in the problem -- sometimes she spells the same word correctly and incorrectly in two different lines. I'm pretty sure that most of the omission errors are because she's in a hurry.

    Also of interest -- I was going over her notebook full of "five sentences" writing last night, and saw a note from the teacher saying that she should have a topic sentence, three detail sentences, and a closing sentence. All this time, she's been bringing home the assignment to "write five sentences about x", and I didn't know it meant to write a paragraph, essay-style! So I explained the format to her, and she got it immediately. The teacher's correction note had no effect whatsoever, until it was explained, and then the light bulb turned on!

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    Originally Posted by Nautigal
    We are encountering this with DD7 this year. She turns out, to my mortification, to be an atrocious speller -- at least, in her written work. Her spelling tests are nearly perfect, and the ones she misses there are clearly because she mis-heard the word and spelled a different one rather than because she misspelled the correct word. Her papers, and sentences, are riddled with errors, generally of omission but sometimes of her version of phonetic spelling. Once in a while, the teacher corrects something by writing above the word, but most of the things she brings home are raw. I shudder to think what we're going to see hanging on the wall at parent-teacher conferences.

    I think that the message being sent is that correct spelling only has a place in spelling tests, and when it comes to writing, anything goes.

    Also, I don't understand why they are getting such young kids to write so much. It seems developmentally totally inappropriate, and very busyworky.

    And why keep students in the dark about correct spelling. That seems cruel. Why make a child's world a more unstable place by intentionally imposing this type of uncertainty.

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    I have no problem with invented spelling for the rough draft but would expect a version on wall to be reasonably correct. I am going to start correcting the weekly notice/homework sheetin red though.

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    DD6's school uses Sweetie's method, but honestly the two teachers she's had since her schooling began have been the worst spellers. I'm constantly shocked that teachers can be such bad spellers. Eg, "piolit" for "pilot".
    DD also writes stories about things teachers have no knowledge of - like geocaching, which DD spelled perfectly and the teacher tried to change to "geocoaching" then "geocatching" and DD had quite a job convincing her she knew what she was doing without any alleged help.
    Anyway, although she's still mostly in the 'creative' spelling phase, DD comes from a long line of awesome spellers and the teachers have a big enough list of sins in my eyes, that spelling is not on my radar

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    Quote
    I think that the message being sent is that correct spelling only has a place in spelling tests, and when it comes to writing, anything goes.

    Well, it was good enough for the Barde.

    Er-- or Bard.


    Whatever.

    wink

    In all seriousness, how on earth are we to produce the next Shakespeere without invented spellings, one wondurs.

    Similarly, we shall soon have no free verse at all if teachers insist upon correcting capitalization and punctuation
    i will not have that
    i plan for my child to be
    the next
    great poet


    Just a thought, mind. I didn't say the logic was GOOD, mind you. grin


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    I remember when my kids did the invented spelling in first grade - I couldn't even figure out the subject of the writing piece. However, by third grade all were good spellers. DD18 is one of those people that just "gets" spelling - she very rarely makes a mistake and almost never cracks open a dictionary. DD16 is a good speller but makes a mistake once in a while (typically on a difficult, commonly misspelled word, and she usually realizes and looks it up). DD9 is similar to DD16.

    I'm not certain how they made the leap from invented spelling to correct spelling. It may have something to do with attending a French immersion school from Pre-K through early elementary. While invented spelling is tolerated in English, it is not in French. Perhaps the push for proper spelling, grammar, etc. in French may have had a positive effect on the English.

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    DD8 is a whiz at spelling tests, and her written output has been atrocious. She has not only internalized the idea that "spelling only matters for spelling tests," but repeated misspelling has reduced her ability to notice errors. Write a word the wrong way enough times, and it feels right.

    What really annoys me about all this is that the school set her up for this, and now they're grading her down for it.

    We're in the process of helping DD unlearn three years of learning. Not fun.

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    Interestingly, my view on this issue has shifted as my children moved from early elementary to late elementary. Regarding special work that are displayed, I still believe that a clean corrected copy should be prepared by the students with teacher input. However, for regular daily work, I am completely fine with the teachers not correcting every spelling and grammatical errors. The amount of daily writing is overwhelming and times 25 students would be too heavy a burden. I am glad that my children's teacher focused comments on content (i.e., literary analysis) and structure (i.e., supporting details).

    I think that it is partly an issue of brain maturity and working memory capacity. My 5th graders (DS & DD) have always been near perfect spellers on spelling tests, but regularly made spelling errors in their written work. However, the frequencies of spelling errors have decreased substantially over time and were fairly rare by 4th grade. I think that when DS/DD have to focus so much working memory on quickly drafting coherent/cohesive substantive answers, it affected spelling. However, if I handed them the writing days later and asked them to locate errors, they can ususally find them. Therefore, my suggestion would be to have your DD try to locate her own errors rather than marking up her papers yourself I also think that with increased exposure to standard spelling (from lots of reading practice over the years), that many students do naturally improve their spelling. While I am not a proponent of "invented spelling," I do think that it frees many K and 1st and even 2nd graders to write freely and focus on content.

    Last edited by Quantum2003; 10/08/13 06:51 PM. Reason: computer glitch
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    Aha! This quote from Bostonian's link leaves me convinced that my child's rigid, awful teacher had been expertly trained in this very method... sure explains a lot... Can't imagine why my Dysgraphic child was having severe anxiety attacks every morning since this wonderful writing program was how his class started each day. Also explains the philosophy as to why he had recess taken away when he complained that his hand hurt and did not "complete his work" by drawing AND coloring a picture with his writing. Wouldn't want to let him "get away" with not doing it. frown

    Here's the quote:

    In her later work, however, Calkins’s notion of the writer’s notebook is prescriptive, even rigid. She instructs teachers as well as parents to make sure children “never miss a day” of writing in their notebooks, because “if you allow kids to get off the hook once, they’ll try to get off it all the time.” In Raising Lifelong Learners (1998), she describes how she needs to stand over her son while he writes down his thoughts after returning from a play date. The earlier “jotting” and “bits of life” sensibility seems to be gone, as she complains that her sons, then six and four years old, “often say non-sequiturs,” and how she, and all parents and teachers, should confront “sidetracks,” and prohibit any “detours.”


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    eek

    Wow-- and NOT in a good way.


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