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Joined: May 2012
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Dude see attached chart and annerberg link. Whether you agree with the chart or not, it lays it out very clearly. If the problem wanted, as an answer, a "difference" and a "subtraction" sentence, it should have asked for that and it should have instructed the student to write a "separating story" rather than a "comparing story." However, the instructions read, "Write a comparing story....Write a number sentence that solves the story." The very problem and answer DS gave as his answer is in chart as correct and a model answer!
Last edited by Irena; 09/26/13 02:34 PM.
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Dude see attached chart and annerberg link. Whether you agree with the chart or not, it lays it out very clearly. If the problem wanted, as an answer, a "difference" and a "subtraction" sentence, it should have asked for that and it should have instructed the student to write a "separating story" rather than a "comparing story." However, the instructions read, "Write a comparing story....Write a number sentence that solves the story." The very problem and answer DS gave as his answer is in chart as correct and a model answer! To write a "number sentence that solves the story," it would be necessary to express it in the form of OPERATION = SOLUTION. That's not what your son presented. Whether you call it a "separating story," a "comparing story," or a bedtime story, the solution is still 10, so it's just semantics.
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Um okay whatever. I am not the one who calls it a comparing story 'they' are and I am not the one who makes up the rules 'they' are and according to 'their' textbooks and charts, he did it correctly. According to their teaching materials, if if the problem wanted, as an answer, a "difference" and a "subtraction" sentence, it should have asked for that and it should have instructed the student to write a "separating story" rather than a "comparing story." However, the instructions read, "Write a comparing story....Write a number sentence that solves the story." In comparing stories you write this type of problem (I take this right from their materials): "Mr. Smith had 5 cookies. Suzy had 3 cookies. How many more cookies did
Mr. Smith have than Suzy?" And, according to their chart and text book, you can solve it either with subtraction or addition. Specifically, they give us these answers as model answers to the problem: "5 - 3 = __ or 3 + __ = 5" The very problem and answer DS gave as his answer looks just like the model addition answer.
Really, it's not rocket science.
Last edited by Irena; 09/26/13 03:22 PM.
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From the "Annenberg Learner Teacher Resources and Professional Development Across the Curriculum:" Compare problems involve a comparison of two distinct, unconnected sets. Like the part-part-whole problems, compare problems do not involve action. A relationship of difference, more than or less than is found in compare problems.
Example problem:
Ahmed has two brothers. Christine has three brothers. Christine has how many more brothers than Ahmed?
Example Answers:
3-2=1
or
2+1=3 Apparently, my DS not only understands this concept but he seems to have a better understanding than some adults. Because, so far, it's adults ()one being his own teacher and her team) who can not seem to wrap their head around why "2+1=3" is a perfectly good answer for "Example problem: Ahmed has two brothers. Christine has three brothers. Christine has how many more brothers than Ahmed?" Despite the fact that it is clearly laid out as such in every single internet resource that I have looked at (I am only linking two but I looked at several more!) addressing the issue! 
Last edited by Irena; 09/26/13 03:43 PM.
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Actually the teacher didn't even know you could use either addition or subtraction in comparing problems (where the difference is unknown, that is). "Joining" problems are addition; "separating" problems are subtraction; and "comparing" problems you can use either (like I said before, these are not my rules, just what the teaching text says). She told him "you can only use subtraction in comparing problems." I think it is actually a matter of her not really knowing the material she is suppose to be teaching. [As the Annenberg text says "Compare problems involve a comparison of two distinct, unconnected sets. Like the part-part-whole problems, compare problems do not involve action. A relationship of difference, more than, or less than is found in compare problems. Where the difference is unknown, either subtraction sentence or an addition sentence is correct. Example problem: Ahmed has two brothers. Christine has three brothers. Christine has how many more brothers than Ahmed? Example Answers:
3-2=1 or 2+1=3"]
Last edited by Irena; 09/26/13 04:27 PM.
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Yes, it simply depends on which is the basis for comparison. "How many more" is using the smaller as the basis for the comparison, therefore "small plus blank equals large".
"How many fewer" would be comparing based on the larger, therefore "large minus small equals blank" or "large minus blank equals small".
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Joined: May 2012
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Yes, it simply depends on which is the basis for comparison. "How many more" is using the smaller as the basis for the comparison, therefore "small plus blank equals large".
"How many fewer" would be comparing based on the larger, therefore "large minus small equals blank" or "large minus blank equals small". Yes, exactly, thank you! That is exactly (well, almost exactly, you say it a bit more clearly and succinctly), what the texts and teaching materials say.
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I wonder if she will have to re-grade all of the tests due to this? It was an assessment and a pre-test to get into the differentiated instruction. This question and one other one were THE questions for the differentiated instruction group.
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on a related note, I was overhearing an inservice on implementing common core. This one was for the teachers. Last night was for the parents. At the parents one, they said, you know how we used to just ask for the right answer (Uh, no, you told us the last curriculum change was about process, not just getting the correct answer, remember), well now we want the students to actually understand what they are doing on a deep level. (so before, you DIDN'T want them to understand?)
At the teacher inservice, they were talking about how to get students to go deeper, and they went through subject by subject. Basically, the thing you are supposed to do is not accept the first answer, but instead, ask the child if they have more they can think of. It sounds like this might be what the teacher in IRENA's case is doing? I don't know.
Sounds like a recipe for anxiety--what are you wanting me to say teacher? Ohhhhh yes ... this sounds an awful lot like what she keeps saying. She has said to me several times this very statement, "this new curriculum wants the students to actually understand what they are doing on a deep level." Inwardly I groan and roll my eyes b/c honestly I am perplexed - how "deep" can you go with 80-70 is 10? Seriously. And it's only double digit b/c my son made it double digit ... usually she is harping on and on about "going deeper" on problems that are essentially 8-2 or something... Honestly, it's like brainwashing or something b/c when I respond with 'uh really' she just keeps repeating the "deeper level" stuff.... It's like she went ot one of marketing things people make their salespeople go to ...
Last edited by Irena; 09/26/13 04:58 PM.
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I THOUGHT "comparing" was a very strange term to use for subtraction, even in fakey jargon world.
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