Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Thinking he's terrible at his strengths

DS5 and I were talking the other day about strengths and weaknesses, in response to his grandpa saying that he(grandpa) was dumb in front of DS. Grandpa is not dumb, he has amazing strengths of information synthesis and a memory that has always made me jealous, but he was never schooly, so to speak. Anyway, I was explaining that grandpa is wonderful at history, could talk for hours on anything he has ever read about it, build anything you need, but might not be so good at basic math or spelling...and that everyone has strengths and weaknesses. This lead to DS listing off his weaknesses, which all happened to be his strengths. He complained that he was terrible in math, science, reading, etc. He wasn't just trying to draw compliments (as some older women I know do). He genuinely felt that because he hasn't succeeded in building any of his inventions (like a robot that will wipe his bum), or because he doesn't know all the math he thinks he ought to know at first glance, he is bad at it.
How do you get a good self image going against this reasoning? Do any of your children think they stink in the subjects they are best at?
We are very laid back, easy-going, non-hard driving parents. So it is not like he would ever get the sense that he isn't measuring up. He just expects mastery and perfection at the get-go.

Sounds more like a lens problem than a self-concept problem. Like he is wise enough to know what he doesn't know, and passionate enough to want to fill himself in those areas. It also means he isn't trying to compare himself to his perception of others but only to his own internal measures. Without comparing himself relative to others, what does bad mean? I would move away from bad as a term. I could be misjudging it. Maybe you could say that people who say they are bad at something mean that it is an area they don't care to try and improve in?

He just expects mastery and perfection at the get-go.


This has been our experience with our DD14. She's always been like this. It's not exactly correlated with her level of interest, ability, or desire for mastery, either.

Nor is it wholly rational, as phey noted with her DS.

Having explored what she DID mean about such statements, it appears that in her case, what she means is that she has some standard (often "100%" in graded/evaluated performance/activities) and anything less than that is "not great." Couple with a sense that she has not got any 'stand out' abilities (and, er-- she doesn't-- but only because she is SO good at SO many domains), and she interprets all of her very real ability as "nothing special," and feels that she doesn't have anything in particular to take pride in.

I don't know that one CAN truly combat that view of the self. Because on some level it is true-- that the person feeling that way doesn't have an (meaning singular) area of "strength" to reflect upon in comparison to other areas which are weaknesses.

It would seem as though external validation would be a route to countermanding this, but we've found that is not really so, because the expectations and standards imposed are ever-escalating.

For an example of what I mean:

last year, my DD won a state championship ribbon for an apiculture poster, and a reserve (second place) in general educational displays for one on a 'dog' topic. She also won county championships in not just those two areas, but in FOUR others. Remember, she's 3-4 years younger than peers/competitors.

So this year, having been grade-skipped-- AGAIN-- and now being a full 4 years younger than most of those competitors, plus having a more-than-full-time job as a result of a high-level summer internship in a research lab... she still won a state championship and a reserve. In the next age division up (senior division-- 11th-12th graders).

I mention this because she was HORRIFIED and disgusted with herself at this outcome. Is that crazy or what?

But that's a perfectionist for you.


She also has this (irrational) sense that "everyone" expects her to come in 1st place all the time... and, uhhhh-- ABSOLUTELY NOT. She's not getting that from ANY of the adults in her life. Not a bit. Nor is she getting it from friends, so far as I can tell. Now that is a socially-prescribed perfectionist for you.

She self-handicaps, she avoids possible failure, and she procrastinates. All because of this quirk of thinking.

My hypothesis has for years been that this entire construct develops as a result of a child never really experiencing ABJECT failure... at anything.

My DD is just plain way too good at almost everything she tries. To the point that she expects instant success, and interprets the lack of it as failure or weak skills/ability.

Her version of the "success to failure" continuum is compressed, basically, into a range that most normal people would think of as being about 80% to 100+%. In her mind, 80% is "awful. Clearly I should go home and never do this again because it is obvious that I have no innate talent TO develop in this activity."

We have to engineer and force failures on her in an effort to break through that awful glass wall that she's built around this. I'm sad to say that these things make us feel terrible as parents-- and even worse when they backfire and she hits something out of the park ANYWAY in spite of almost certain failure. Well. I say "out of the park" when I mean "above average relative to others older than herself who have invested serious amounts of time and energy in getting to some level of proficiency."

But HK, (some of) the things he is talking about seem more out of the park than just coming 2nd place against much older peers. It is more like, I haven't invented any robots, so I must be terrible at science. Because obviously if I was any good, I would be building rockets and landing on the moon type of thing. Maybe that is just a factor of his age and lack experience at what is possible.
But the question is: Do I try to convince him by showing/explaining to him that his age peers are doing x while he is doing y? Do I try to give him the perspective of comparing himself to others? (Normally, given an "average" kid, I would never think of doing that! But is that what is healthy in this case?)

I think this is a symptom that has a tricky differential diagnosis. My DS does it, but I don't think he literally means it - I think if someone else said he was rubbish at maths, he wouldn't just agree! In his case, I think he says it sometimes as an expression of a feeling of dissatisfaction that he doesn't know how to put words to (if I suspect this, I say "don't make statements you know to be false - if you need a cuddle or something, say that") and sometimes in frustration at having made a mistake (I say "no negative self-talk"!)

My older son went through a year of "I am terrible in math" because he felt that he should know how to do problems before the explanation and not waiting until he had been given the explanation (and then he had spent the time of the explanation stewing about how bad he was and hadn't been able to concentrate on the explanation). It took him a year of me constantly pointing out how "mathy" he was in everyday moments and how the rest of the world just doesn't look at everyday moments in quite the logical/mathy way he does. I think he is over this particular negative view or if he isn't he doesn't say it out loud anymore. His teacher this year (8th grade) had him for about 9 weeks in his sixth grade year (she was teaching all 8th grade classes but had to teach one 6th grade class until they got funding for another math teacher and she was able to move back to teaching all 8th grade classes) and she thinks he is just a brilliant math student and I hope that her positive attitude and confidence about his abilities rubs off on him.

I don't think he has ever really been under-placed in his math instruction where this attitude would be learned. I think he has always been appropriately challenged in math...I don't know what happened other than possibly an off comment by a 4th grade teacher that to any other kid wouldn't have even registered.

Instead of comparing him to peers (which probably wouldn't work with him anyway), why not try to give him the scope he is clearly lacking in possible/impossible?

Yes, a rocket brought men to the moon. How many people working together did it take, and how long did they work to get there? Although good luck instilling a sense of time ("decades of work!") in a 5 yo

Too many of the history of science books focus on the lone (misunderstood) genius toiling away in his lab/garage/barn. Especially the ones targeted at kids. But others might be able to suggest appropriate books about things like the Space Program, and other large scale efforts?

Right now DS7 and DS9 are listening to the audiobook of _Bomb: The Race to Build--and Steal--the World's Most Dangerous Weapon_ about the Manhattan Project (http://www.amazon.com/Bomb-Build-Steal-Dangerous-Newbery/dp/1596434872). Lots of scientists building on each others' work over two decades, plus war and spy stuff, but it is a Newberry Honor book for 10yo/5th grade up, so not too gory.

I especially liked its take on Robert Oppenheimer, from bright genius kid with no social skills to forgetful college professor to cat wrangler of a team of the brightest minds in the world at the time

Is it possible that he's confusing knowledge with aptitude? In an adult, being 'good at' something is generally the result of putting in as much effort as one feels the need for, but a child has had a limited opportunity to, say, build robots. I always try to phrase comparisons like this as how fast a person learns, rather than the sum of their lifetime learning. I often point out to my kids that I may know more about X than they do, because I have decades of experience in it, but they know more about Y, because it's an interest they picked up before I did.

I have no doubt that for many, this is a big perfectionism problem - but from one conversation, it could be just a matter of terminology for the OP's DS. He naturally sees things he'd like to have mastered in his favorite topics, so he sees that he's mastered only a fraction of what there is to learn. Without considering the speed of his learning this feels the same as being 'bad at' the topic.