Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion teach Your Children Well

After the whole Ivy League admissions topic, I thought this was an interesting book to discuss.

One of the things she cites early is that IQ accounts for only 10% of the reason people are successful in the workplace. She references The Bell Curve by Herstein and Murray, yet they wrote:
Intelligence is one of, if not the most, important factors correlated to economic, social, and overall success in the United States, and its importance is increasing

And that was written pre 1994 when the book was published with now very old data. Levine repeatedly writes that children are entering a more competitive work environment.

She also writes that children should be able to go out the house by themselves by age 9 and explore with friends. We moved to a very safe neighborhood in Toronto, and DD could probably go out but I would have to know her friend, a few doors down was home first and coordinate. It is not the same as when I was a kid and could run out of the house at 5 to see who was outside to play.

But I am trying to make a conscious effort to get out now with DD and the dog and hang by the beach, the woods. It is cool that we are in city limits, walk along the beach and there are beavers, mink, raccoons. I saw a beaver one morning with the dog and didn't know if it was an otter or beaver but it was so cool. The dog chased a mink yesterday and DD and I debated if it was a fisher or a mink. It still isn't the same as running out and creating games with other kids you find.

Who has that anymore?

We don't as condo dwellers. Sounds like you have quite a nice set-up. Welcome back to Canada!

Even if the 10% figure is true, IQ and the academic credentials it helps one attain influence what workplace one joins and in what role. I've read stories about successful people who worked their way up from mail room. I don't see that happening nowadays. At my company, the mail room and cafeteria staff work for sub-contractors.

(When you recommend a book I suggest listing the author and title in one place:

Teach Your Children Well: Why Values and Coping Skills Matter More Than Grades, Trophies, or "Fat Envelopes"
by Madeline Levine)

We have that where I live - our kids "free range" in our neighborhood. I realize there are safety issues in some cities, and I feel very blessed to not worry that my kids can play outside without me worrying about their safety.... But I don't think my part of the world is entirely anomalous - I suspect there are still other places like this.

We live in a neighborhood where the kids roam around.

Since my son is only five he tends to be a Ramona Quimby type tag along.

It's one of the reasons that we live out in the boonies in W. NJ - DD's school bus waits have shown her wood ducks, ospreys, belted kingfishers, rising trout, mink, otters and even a bald eagle perched on a tree only 60 feet away on the other side of the creek.

We can also get to a reservoir that appears to be on the migration 'highway' for numerous East coast birds. Everyone thinks of NJ as being this post industrial toxic cluster of Superfund sites (and that is mostly true LOL) but there are some truly lovely spots too.

Spring, Summer and Autumn also provide opportunities to hunt for wild edible mushrooms and other foraging delights like ramps, milkweed, nuts and berries. This also provides plenty of exercise and, hopefully, has opened the door to a lifetime of appreciating the outdoors.

The downside is that PS opportunities are limited but we think that an intelligent child with the right parental guidance will learn more in Nature's classroom and at home with us anyway. School is attended mainly for social and not academic reasons, in our opinion, at her age (8).

Exactly.

College is problematic now for a whole host of reasons-- but we are (IMO) a long way from that degree/credentialing process "becoming irrelevant."

NO way would I want my DD to take up the Thiel Fellowship. NO. WAY.

It's a nice idea, but the problem is that the statistics are harshly and emphatically not on the side of the $100,000... and honestly, that 100K is already a memory within four years of a theoretical college diploma for all but a very fortunate few.

It's like hoping that you will be a good enough athlete to go pro.


IQ is (pretty much) necessary but not sufficient, basically. Just like the educational doors that high ability can open.

We don't exactly free-range our DD, but we live in a quiet college town, and on a quiet dead-end street... so our DD has had the benefit of there being 4-8 neighborhood children as she's grown up. It's fairly mixed demographic, though, and unlike a 'subdivision' lifestyle, or a rural area where families are large (as in years gone by), there have not been many kids HER age.

There is a group that is older, and one that is younger by several years. This left her in the unenviable position of being "the little one" with the intellectual cohort, and "the babysitter" with the younger ones, a role that I eventually discouraged because of liability/safety issues (DD being as conscientious and guilt-prone as she is-- she took scrapes and bruises VERY personally and wasn't having much fun).

We have made a deliberate effort to NOT over-schedule her. By the way, in an HG+ child with wide interests/ability, this is largely a matter of applying the BRAKES, not of 'encouraging' activities.

Less scheduling and grooming, I'm all for. I call that giving children a childhood. There is a lot of mammalian research to suggest that those years of "play" are absolutely essential to adult functionality, so I think that not allowing it in favor of structured activities (as some stressed parents have done in an effort to 'groom' kids better) is probably counterproductive anyway.

But the Thiel fellows are not required to permanently forgo getting a degree, and I'd guess that many of them will go back to school. An advantage of acceleration is that one can take a risk but still have time to get back on the usual track. That said, I am not saying I would encourage taking a Thiel fellowship or equivalent -- it obviously depends on the student.

Yep this is the age of sub-contractors and of employing "new blood" rather than from inside. The place I work now is an exception but it is the only one I have worked in.

I'd like a reference for the 10% IQ claim.

Thing is, if you're a scientist or engineer or other highly skilled professional, a minimum IQ is likely an absolute entry requirement. So if someone claims that success in these fields is only 10% influenced by IQ, the claim would either be false or would be overlooking the fact that IQ got you there in the first place, with other factors being important among a workplace group who are all, say, at least +1 SD from the average.