Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments Homeschooling woes...already.

Not much advice, as we start our homeschool adventure next week. But I already know that DS will be resistant to too much structure or teaching. He loves to learn. He does not always love to be taught. You have my sympathy!

HK, I love the idea of small notes, later pasted into a comp book. I will try this.

Something that has been successful (more or less) this summer is to post a summer-camp-style schedule for the week. Big piece of paper, divided into 5 columns. Lots of pictures, funny writing styles, multiple colors, stars, exclamation points, etc. Even if the content isn't the most exciting, at least the kids know what is happening during the week, and can look forward to something like a trip to a museum or playground. Granted, this wasn't school, but I plan to continue it into the school year and see how it goes.

I'm trying to figure this out as I go so I have no real advice to offer. We're not radical unschoolers who believe in no structure but if your son is learning well on his own, I wouldn't try to change that by insisting upon top-down learning when he is only five.

As for instilling structure in his life, I think the best way to do that is to live a structured life as a family. Easier said than done, I know but I think life becomes more manageable once it is well organized.

Last year when DS was 5 and in a play based K we homeschooled/afterschooled just for writing in order to keep him at grade level in that. It was a real struggle. We actually started off with more subjects and realized early on that being at a 4th grade level in some subject did not mean that he could be cajoled to become interested in a 5th grade level.

I don't have a lot of advice about other subjects but with the learning to write our OT (DS is very below average in fine motor skills) recommended at a K level that a single HWT page one to two days a week was plenty and that given how frustrating pencil use was for him that the other days be made more fun, such as forming letters with wood pieces, playdoh, drawing them in or with shaving foam, making them from food, etc. Even if he really already knew the shape that the consistency of daily exposure would be good in the long run. DS progressed very slowly it seemed and each day's work which ought to take about 5 minutes would range between 10 and 40 minutes for him. But now a year later he can write legible short words if he absolutely has to, meaning he's at an acceptable level from my perspective. Unless your DS has as poor motor skills as mine I would assume with a similar very small actual effort per week they would progress more quickly.

As DS progressed past the HWT K curriculum we've moved on to crosswords in his areas of interest... just google the interest and kids crossword. So that he was printing just a few words per day. Or I'd have him print out a label for his latest invention "Time machine" for example, and help him tape it on, and have that be the writing practice for the day.

We never got past battles about how long he had to work for or how much whining he was allowed to do before a time out. I hate to say there were almost as many meltdowns and tearful moments at the end of the year as at the beginning. We were firm and clear from the beginning and he resented it from the beginning. At least for my child there wasn't a period of testing or adjusting to the system that he got through after a few weeks.

With a child who really is bucking that hard against homeschool I would perhaps go more informal except in any areas that are truly deficient for age. Saving the seated time for those areas. And then also have one or two official activities a week that they must attend that you know they will find fun. For example perhaps there's a two hour block monday am and you do make a catapult that day. Something so that the anguish of the very small amount of forced labor the other days is balanced.

And then if you are going light on official homeschool time, additionally have an out of home goal oriented experience a couple of times a week: a group class of some kind where there are high expectations for them to behave well. A sport like karate, a language, a kids yoga class could work, etc.

Now at 6 I actually think my DS could handle a little more than the 10 or so minutes of unpleasant work he had to do last year.

I wouldn't worry that however much obedient seated time they are capable of at 5 is just going to be how it will be forever.

Bedtime math and this blog http://letsplaymath.net/2009/04/06/buddy-math/
both make a neat point about reading vs. other subjects. They say math, but I guess it applies to writing and everything else. Everybody loves reading, but many people hate math. They guess the reason this is might be that reading is relaxed and you do it in front of them way more than you ask them to do it. When you get to other subjects you kinda tell them, this is what you do- now do it and I'll tell you if you're wrong (although some people don't believe in telling kids they're wrong if they're trying). They suggest "you do a problem and I'll do a problem". I pre-homeschooled my kid for a few years. That's why I have more ideas than a kinder homeschooler usually would. I ask my kid and my husband bedtime math word problems when we're sitting around. He asks me word problems that he makes up. I do a lot of writing that he tells me to do, I also do the writing for the homework I assign while he just answers the questions. I know a lot of this can be done orally more easily, but I want him to see that the answers have to be written down, someone has to write the answers. I like how "The Well Trained Mind" and "Writing with Ease" by the same author says to take it easy on expecting the kids to write their answers through the second grade, unless the assignment is handwriting. Let them answer orally and you write it down. Only make them write it down sometimes for the practice. So for the seat time for Singapore math he sits with me and answers a few pages and I write it down. I write pretty slow so he's still sitting there getting his fifteen minutes of seat time in math. Sometimes he says, "You answer the questions and I'll write it down." That's fine too. If they were in a classroom they would not be answering every single question. Their classmates would answer some questions and that would be considered learning too.
Excuse typeos and lack of grammer, breaks, and formatting. Phone's out of battery so I'm going to hit post before editing for clarity.

Honestly-- parental instinct isn't just the most important thing here-- IMO, it's the ONLY thing.



I had that same sense with my own little termagant. Who is-- to be clear-- NOT a morning person.

Her resistance to instruction and authority has always been evident. "Oh, sure you can always tell {DD}. You just can't tell her much," as the saying goes around here.

She's still a nightmare for most teachers in a traditional setting. If I'd allowed an unschooling structure with her-- NO WAY could she go to college. And she needs to go to college, because her inclinations and interests (and dare I say-- her vocation) lie toward the hard sciences. That's not 'self-study' territory in a larger sense of wanting her to become independent and self-supporting as an adult.

Anyway. I think that if your gut is telling you that he needs an hour or two of externally imposed structure each day-- DO IT.

Agree with HK. I think of this like driving-- keep one eye on what's immediately in front of you, but one eye on what's further up the road toward the horizon. 5 years from now, your DS will need the skills to follow instructions and work within some structure in order to have access to the full range of opportunities he might want. Start building now the skills he'll need... and he'll get there.

DeeDee

ABSOLUTELY. I am so confused as to how to teach to his level and his age at the same time. I don't even know where to start in subjects such as Language Arts, where he is so wildly advanced, but I have to imagine he has holes somewhere. For example, somehow he learned phonics and usually can spell better than I can:), but there are some words he needs help with (rarely). Do I even bother doing spelling, or do I just figure that he spells as well as most 4-6th graders, so by the time he is actually that age, he will have probably got all the kinks out as well? His reading took off this year, stamina wise...and now he can read (latest Percy Jackson) no problem. But is he ready to really analyze it, or write a paper on it - no. So what do I do with it? We tried talking about it, took an online mult choice test to test comprehension. Do I move onto diagramming sentences - that doesn't sound like fun to me, will it to a 5 year old? I think the asynchronous age vs ability vs output is really mentally throwing me off. I am lost as what to teach let alone how to teach it. Math is easier to tackle for me, as it is just a list you can go down fairly orderly - but LA can spawn off in so many different directions, and you can be doing stuff much more advanced in it, but have bigger holes, so it seems.



Yes, this is what my gut (and my husband) is telling me! He needs structure and he needs to learn that just because he is intellectually gifted does not mean that he is the authority.

Someone else also said (Mana) that just implementing more family structure- bed time, meal time, bath time, etc. might be enough to start this process. I reluctantly agree, and DH wholeheartedly agrees! I know I need to do this - it is just a very weak area of mine. Just adding this structure to our home will make it so we can be more flexible with schooling. So thank you so much for this insight; DH double thanks you.

I really feel like I have received such thoughtful advice here, and it has helped me start really thinking through what the real issues are.
My game plan going forward is that I need to be MORE engaged, give more undivided attention, read to him more (I quit this year when he really took off reading chapter books on his own- but just bringing that back for the past three nights has been a big help). Realize that most learning in the past and in the future will likely be less formal, but that is okay, because he learns by play, and we don't have to be working down a checklist of math skills in order to be learning math. But we as parents should be modeling doing math and enjoying it as a mental game (I think we have been fairly good at this, but I really loved that suggestion and want to keep it forefront in my mind). And I really need to reel in the computer time, replace it with more outside time, and get a grip on this now, instead of waiting for 10 more years of ugly habit to sink in. This is going to be the hardest, as it will mean that I need to have less time to myself, and that I need to get more organized and more engaged! The challenge really seems to me now to be framed that I need to somehow teach myself structure! Looks like I am the one here in need of that lesson.

I haven't looked at any of the catapult links yet, but I will. So thanks for those as well. Well, time to get off the computer and get engaged with this wonderful kid!

You already have a lot of wonderful advice here... We are just entering our second HS year with a 6 year old with many of the issues you mentioned, a 4 year old who has my same learning style, loves to do stuff and sit and learn and a very very busy 2 year old who just likes to explore and break stuff.

I have found with Aiden (6) that then more I try push for hardcore structure the worse it got. I decided to do more unschooling and allowed him to choose what he wants to work on. He currently has 4 daily things he chose to work on (violin, maths, spelling, writing) and 2 other "just for fun things" (genetics and rock strata) and 1 lifeskill (rollerblading - don't ask, I didn't understand his answer! lol)

We mix with a LOT of unschoolers and from what I see of the older kids, they are great with setting their own routine. They will order their own time automatically simply because they are doing the things they really really want to be doing. And I can see as I have let Aiden do this, that in the first 5 months he had epic meltdowns because he forgot to do x or was too busy playing to do y. And I kept saying that it's okay, it's your choice how to spend your day - with a hug and a smile. (Even though inside I was screaming with a little "told ya so")... Now he is starting to realise and self-regulate already. Not every day, not all the time, but he is only 6 and I recon that if he can figure out on his own how to manage his own time to get everything done that needs to be, then he will OWN that for always. We have work periods in our day where I will say, okay Nathan wants to do maths now, which of yours do you want to do? WE work for about 15 minutes at a time and then have at least an hour break for lego, baking, walking, riding bikes and climbing trees, swimming, building puzzles, reading stories whatever. So our day is spread out and feels lazy and relaxing and I get some of my own work done inbetween as well as basic tidying up.

It works well for us.

best of luck as you find your feet!

If he is really having a rough day I help him make a list of what he wants to do that day and he ticks it off as we go (including brushing teeth and watching specific shows)

Screen time - I limit to 40-60 minutes per day only. 50% of that is "learning screen time" and the rest is whatever they want to do on the PC. They have subscriptions to reading eggs, dreambox, a typing program and timez attack and a variety of learning based games. They have city builder series games, plants vs. zombies and wizard 101 for "fun time". Sometimes they google their current favourite show and play those games.

They can watch one mythbusters or "how its made" with DH or the occasional national geographic type documentary. Friday nights is family movie night.

If it's hard to get going in the morning then start the morning slowly - that's the joy of homeschooling. I have come to realise that there is no right or wrong way to do this: all that matters is that we are having fun and laughing together, because that means learning will happen.

The million-dollar question here is, "Have you read it?"

I began teaching literary comprehension/analysis to DD when she was 5, and I was still reading Harry Potter to her. I'd stop and ask a lot of questions... "Why do you think he's doing this? How is this different from the movie?" In this way, I was leading her into comprehension and analysis, even though she didn't know it. To her, it just seemed we were talking about the book, which she was more than happy to do.

So, my advice is, read the book, and then talk about it with him.


Assuming you've already covered the various parts of speech (noun, verb, adjective, article, preposition, etc.), then yes, because it's a necessary skill to understanding the language.

My DD did it when she was six, and she enjoyed it.

Sigh. Sitting at work feeling so jealous. While I completely get that homeschooling would be very challenging (for the parent) it also sounds so lovely to have so much time for playing and building and exploring and just being with the kids. Of course as I imagine it I am picturing being able delve into things at DD6 level of interest but I can't picture how you all do this if you have a younger child at home. I could see DD2 (almost 3) making homeschool very challenging indeed. Of course the biggest challenge for homeschooling would be living without my paycheck and unfortunately I can't get past that one. Oh well. We will just make the best of what we can do.