Well that didn't take long. One week of homeschool down and I feel like I have already smothered my DS's love of learning. I feel drained/exhausted/emotionally spent. I really don't know how to tackle this and I want so badly to instill in DS a love of learning, a good work ethic, and a good attitude, but I feel like a failure.

The problem: DS loves "studying" as long as it is not me/anyone else telling him what to do. He reads voraciously, as long as it is not a book I asked him to read. (Did that for the first time last week, and it ended with him saying he hates reading - which is so obviously not true.) He adds math into his play, but when I ask him to do our math program with me, it is all fits, complaints for at least 1-2 hours. When I finally get him to sit still and concentrate, BAM, he knocks it out in 20 minutes. I think it has nothing to do with the level that I am asking him to do, and IF he concentrates/comes at it with a good attitude, I KNOW he can do it in a reasonable time (even for a 5yo), so I don't think that it has to do with his attention span/or his ability level. This week he has constantly been in a bad mood, complaining about how adults don't understand their children, and are always telling them what to do.

I know he needs to start learning structure, and he needs to learn that he isn't the leader (which he really struggles with).

On top of all that I think another problem he is facing is serious disillusionment. Part of me thinks(yes, I have asked him) that his vision for homeschooling is much more elaborate and wonderful than the reality. He envisions a homeschool group that will come to our house daily, and will daily be doing all sorts of amazing experiments and that all the kids will be a little Secret Science Alliance like band. The reality in our extremely rural area right now, is that we are lucky to get together with our HS group once a month during the regular school year. And the reality is that I don't have the resources or stamina to keep up with all his ideas/dreams. Take for instance, last night. He decided he wanted to make a catapult. He got in his mind the toys that he could convert into the basic form, taped stuff together (his first mistake :), tried to use his slinky for a spring, and well you know - it didn't work. He gets incredibly mad at himself, calling himself stupid, and going off his rocker. I am calmly trying to explain, that he just doesn't have the right parts to make one available right now. We could go to a hardware store and get them - but in his mind, he ought to be able to make one out of what he has, if only he were smart enough. I feel terrible - like I can't really give him the experiences that he needs, but I also know that somehow, I need to tame his expectations without squashing his soul.

Oh, and because of all the tantrums about "doing school" - what should be a 1-2 hour school day, ends up taking 4-5 hours. I am calmly trying to just stand my ground, there is no yelling, but my strings are getting short, and I don't know if it really the best thing to do. Do I just wait it out, and after a few weeks of this, he will finally realize that if he just does what I ask, he can get on with playing faster....

HELP!

Sorry to hear that it has been such an exhausting week! Hopefully you will get some great ideas from other homeschoolers. We are not homeschooling but my DS5 is very (very) similar. I wonder if having him choose from the selection of "musts" for the week would help him feel he had more control. DS would probably end up doing the week's worth of maths in one day, other subjects other days. DS gets frustrated when his inventions don't work the way he imagined. At times he has been amenable to joint research on other ways to make the same thing. And sometimes not... All the best

I really feel for you, but don't feel like I have any great insight to share. We've been partial homeschooling and so far it's satisfying to see her pushbthrough something and make progress and I think it's the right thing to do. But not fun for me at all, such a relief when it's over in fact. I feel like a terrible parent for not finding homeschool joyous and fun an adorin every minute with my child!

I second MoN's advice.

We homeschooled (I mean-- PURE homeschooling) for almost 2y, and honestly, the best results were always when I gave my DD a daily list.

I used mini-memo pads to do this, and listed specific things that I wanted her to work on-- and then more fun/open-ended things. I was always here to help or engage with her-- but much of this was stuff that I did expect that she would do independently. So she did.

For example (I still have the records from this time-- all those mini-lists are taped into composition books!!)


The latter three headings there refer to workbooks. The Complete Book of Maps and Geography-- isbn 978-1561895038-- which is sadly out of print now-- these were a great bargain and my DD LOVED that series of workbooks very, very much.

The Language Arts workbook was a Spectrum one-- probably 2nd or 3rd grade, given the date.


Anyway. This is an example from when my daughter was 5.2 yo. This would have been a rather typical day-- another average day might have her do an art project, play a computer game (she was very fond of Magic Schoolbus, and I used those for times when I needed to take her to work with me) or free read during the rest of the day.

The point is that she is VERY oppositional-- I still get way more out of her if I don't get "in her face" about what I want her to do. If I write it down and give her the list, it's like MAGIC. It just happens.

Oh my-- how sweet and funny-- as I'm flipping these memo notes over to look at the ones below them, I see that on the back side my then 5yo DD had written in BIG block letters:


Shows what SHE was thinking about. LOL Some things never change. Seeing her five year old printing kind of melts my heart a little now that she's a nearly grown teen.

Enjoy these years when they are little. It really goes by awfully fast.

Would he go for "read something from thebook basket" rather than a specific book? And can you just do 3 or 4 10 minute lessons over the day?

MoN-Yes, more involved is what he needs I sense; it is just that it is draining to keep up with him mind! In fact, I really think this is the crux of the problem - he doesn't really want to work out of books or curriculum - he wants total involvement, where everything has an elaborate presentation, or profound meaning, or isn't just another part of the slow building process of learning. He needs me to be super active with him - he needs so much more social than we are currently getting (Our current rural situation has not been the best for any of us). And yes, I have tried the would you like to be doing what your K friends are doing in school today, learning the alphabet, counting to 100..whatever? (Just so others know, this might have been a really bad idea, because, he does have good friends who are in K, and I don't need him putting them down, but I do need to emphasize to him why K would be a bad idea for him.) As far as laying out what we are doing each day, I set up a sticker system, where he earns "electronics" time for completing his math, reading, writing, exercise, etc. each day. It is not so explicit as to say, do xx pg in xx book..but he knows that for instance he only has to do one page of HW/oTears per day. I don't know that having a more explicit list would be a big draw for his personality. It totally is for mine, as I am a list crosser-offer. I will try it, but in other lists that I have done, I didn't see any increased motivation.

Part of our problem seems to be that over the summer I think he developed a habit of electronics over-use. I justified it as being an only kid, and having a DH who has been gone for the summer, I needed more down-time, and I let Tv/internet use get out of control. He is now really kicking back about not having the same amount as he was getting only last week. Hopefully we can successfully detox him from that! (I never should have listened to people on this forum that Minecraft might be a game he would enjoy In fact, it is Minecraft talk that so frequently interrupts his ability to concentrate on anything else.

HK - That is totally the type of thing my DS would write! And yes, staying out of his face is how I survive, but when it comes to the fact that I need to be in his face, because otherwise his mind would melt into Minecraft, what more can I do?

Does anyone have any idea if a total electronics detox (take them all away) would be a good idea, or should I just let him earn time by getting his school work done?

This is how I have "directed" him in what to read in the past - just having a stack of books I thought he'd like around. But last week, when I asked him to read from a specific book daily (a book he on his own decided he wanted to read and started himself, but started lacking the motivation to finish...only because it left him with less play time..) then it was an all out, I hate reading. So, usually, reading isn't the problem. He will usually read well past bedtime on his own accord. And usually, he will read the books I buy for him and leave around.

I am a single mum with 2 kids and I think total detox would be too hard for you. You could try no electronics during public school hours and then enrol him in after school classed
or set up a couple of play dates a week?

And it may be it will take a while to settle. You could be looking back at this thread in a few months and laughing.

I have a suggestion for you--

DRY ERASE MARKERS.

Do you have a patio door or very large window?

This is a genius thing for homeschooling families. The sheer novelty of it is a wonderful tool.


RE: Minecraft, I have no great advice, I am afraid. The only conclusions to such things that I have in our history would not make either one of you happy to hear. My DD has only now developed any ability to self-regulate this kind of thing and not have it take over her life. She's 14.

I had to completely shut down accounts and forbid ANY further access for-- Webkinz, Club Penguin, Pokemon (oh my goodness is there a lot of this stuff out there), and-- something--else... I even had to install K9 and keep visual contact with her while she was on the computer 100% of the time during the years when she was 6-11yo. It. was. BAD.

So I issue that cautionary tale. Obsession at that level is-- pretty much insurmountable with this personality type, because they defy your legitimate authority to actually regulate them on it. {sigh}

I'd try full withdrawal "until we can both get the hang of homeschool" and NOT supply him with criteria for what that means. Supply OTHER activities and allow free choice of OTHER things, by all means... just.not.that.

Ohh- I am so happy to see that those books are still in print!!

They were perfect for a high-literacy, low-written-output PG kiddo.

I concur about not getting too concerned about what happens day to day, too-- it's easy to lose sight of the bigger picture.

What I neglected to mention that was sometimes DD would get really involved in something on her list, or just dawdle and not get to everything. That was okay-- it just stayed on the list for the next day (or two).

Dry erase markers on a window:

a) can be school... serious things like handwriting, sentences, spelling words... math...

b) can also be silly-- who can draw the best monster with purple hair? Let's set a time limit and see who can draw an alien planet the fastest!! I'm going to draw the weirdest flower ever-- no peeking...

The unluckiest stick figure in the universe featured prominently at my house, incidentally. I never inquired too deeply about this point, but I'm pretty sure that at least occasionally, that was an effigy.

You know how you write out your plans in your day planner for school? I read what I think is a better idea for kindergarten, and I use it. I bought my day planner and write down the curriculum we did each day after we do it. I expect my son to do either HWT or copy one sentence every day correctly and neat. I expect him to do one math, we have Singapore, Khan Academy, and Beast Academy. He has to do one other subject every day. Our state required five subjects, we pick one of those as the third thing. It would make sense to do one of those every day, but we just do one and figure it will even out. It's not like he's going to fall behind if we "just keep swimming". If I say, well, we haven't done this subject for a while, you have to do this today, that's good enough. This is simple. It takes less than an hour (unless he's just not doing it), and I have my preschooler and neice both do their lessons in the same timeframe. We don't all three do it every day, just most days. It really is sufficient. Anything fun, like you described, is just that- fun. Do it in your bountiful free time. I homeschool after lunch. I kick them out in the yard for two hours in the morning then let them inside for the tv, playroom, and video games. After lunch it's time to do your lessons. The lessons take about an hour for all three subjects. For example he may read a golden book as that third lesson one day, give me an oral report the next day, and copy what I wrote down that he said the next. I want the HWT, math, and third subject to take less than an hour. (actually, I bought Writing With Ease and that's my daily requirement, I just allow HWT to count as WWE).

If you write your "plans" after you've done them, homeschool right after lunch, and only count the essentials as homeschooling (the rest is just stuff we like, on our own time), I think it will make it go smoother. One might think that after lunch one might be sluggish and choose not to teach homeschool then, but I like that they get the morning free time reguardless of their choices, and that early in the afternoon they have an incentive not to waste the rest of the day by dragging their feet (most days). And by writing the plans afterwards it doesn't really matter if you miss a day here or there to go do something else.

This is a cool catapult. We were subscribed to Aurora Lipper's Supercharged Science for a while. We saw this there. She hotglued a plastic spoon on the end instead of tacking on a bottlecap.

Hey-- La Tex! Good to see ya!


Yeah-- our method was a gentle wake-up, probably with piano practice in there somewhere, going for a walk, weeding or doing some household chores together, etc.

Then, about 9:30-11 AM, (sometime in there, anyway, we'd start) we would do school. Until it was done or until we had something else going on or we'd both had enough, I mean.

Typical outside-of-the-house activities that we engaged in during our homeschooling years:

a) piano (same teacher that my DD has almost nine years later-- a homeschooling mom herself, she is WAY supportive.)

b) going and listening to weekly, free "noon concerts" at the local university

c) various parks and rec classes (cheap-cheap-cheap and because they are PUBLIC-public, they have to meet the highest standards of ADA compliance... heheh.) We did pottery (a disaster with my sensory-issues preschooler), kinder-gym (awesome b/c of teacher), art (also great), ballet and tap classes (varied widely-- but mostly awesome), drawing, music (meh-- not really on-level for PG DD), swimming (AWESOME success), Tai Kwon Do, Tai Chi, literacy programs (where we were gloriously permitted to 'cheat' a bit on age restrictions, though-- sadly-- it needed to be by about 2y more than they allowed).

d) the library. OMG. I thought that at some point, our marvelous children's librarians were going to ambush me for an intervention. Not completely kidding about that. I regularly had 110-150 items checked out at any one time.

e) trying various homeschool co-op and indoor play spaces (never had luck-- but we did try)


I'd also-- if this is something that your family would like to foster-- encourage you to explore side-by-side opportunities for community service in your local area. A food bank, collecting supplies for a women's shelter, socializing animals at the animal shelter, helping at the library-- pretty much anything goes.

Hi, Phey. We have homeschooled all along. When my kids were five, we did almost no structured instruction of any kind. We took walks in the woods, we read lots of books, we visited libraries and museums, and we did some crafts. There was lots of free time for unstructured play.

Kids at five really learn by play. There is tons of research on this, and if you want to know more, Google “importance of play,” or read anything by Peter Gray. When we were five, kindergarten was all about play. Recently, schools have been pushing instruction down into younger and younger grades, and it is not good. When your son is trying to make a catapult, it is more about process than product. His playful, creative process is setting him up eventually to make great discoveries one day! I think kids know that they need to play to learn at that age, and that is why they resist direct instruction (which pretty much all five year olds do, especially bright ones).

When my kids were that age, they did do some “school.” We had subscriptions to places like dreambox.com, readingeggs.com, and time4 learning. (Neither of mine were reading at 5.) They would “play” on one of these sites for 15 or 20 minutes about four times per week. My son also loved practicing times tables with Timez Attack, and he played through all of the Fritz and Chesster chess CD’s that year. As they have gotten older, we have increased “school” time. By about fourth grade, they were doing 1 to 2 hours per day, three days per week. Finally in sixth grade, my DYS dd 11 will be doing considerably more than that.

How does that work, doing so little? When dd 11 took the Explore in 5th grade, she blew past the DYS cut, even getting a perfect score in English. I believe she ceilinged in English because she had read, and read, and read. Whenever she wanted, whatever she wanted. She had read much more than she would have if she had been in school, because she wouldn’t have had the time.

So much learning happens in informal ways. Kids learn a ton of math from crocheting, doing Legos, knitting, cooking, etc. They learn about science by observing the world around them, especially in nature. And they learn the mechanics and nuances of language through talking, asking questions, and reading.

I do understand about these huge ideas that totally outstrip ability! That must be one of the hardest things about being a little kid. When he was seven, my son decided that he wanted to be Shelob for Halloween. He didn’t want some cutesy spider costume. He wanted a five-foot high, animatronic, remote-controlled, fully operational walking giant spider that he could climb into and control from behind its glowing, red eyes. He could imagine it walking down on street, frightening all the little kids. He was really obsessed with it, and it took some time for him to realize it wasn’t going to happen. Yet. (Although maybe someday, he will work in movie special effects, who knows!) I always find it difficult to know what my role as a parent ought to be when one of these grandiose ideas comes up. Should I help him execute it in and “adult” way, by maybe buying a kit to build a catapult? Should I merely encourage him to think about the project by asking open-ended questions? Leave implementation totally up to him? I will tell you that my son drew many schematics and drawing for his Shelob costume, and I am certain that he learned a lot doing those!

By the way, if you do want to go back to the catapult, I remember us using these instructions one day. http://spaghettiboxkids.com/blog/easy-to-make-catapult/. It worked great! We spent a long time hurling cotton balls toward a bowl that day. If you want to do something slightly more involved, but still easy, google “spoon catapult.” There are many variations online.

If I were you, I would enjoy these last lovely days of summer, and the cool fall weather to come. I would wake up without an alarm and allow your son to do the same. Linger over breakfast, and see what questions come up. My kids ask the most amazing questions at breakfast. (Yesterday, my daughter had this whole thing about Schroedinger’s cat, and how you could know if the cat were dead and alive if you used a Geiger counter, but then quantum objects behave differently than non-quantum objects, because the cat can’t really be both dead and alive, but a particle can simultaneously exist in two states at once, so really the question is, how does the quantum world interact with the non-quantum world? Me, on my first cup of coffee: “Hmmmm.”) I would scour local meadows for migrating monarchs. Download a mushroom ID app on my iphone, and go for a walk in the woods to see how many species we could identify. Look up some historical recipes and do some baking. (Did you know you can easily make hard tack, staple food of pirates?) Grow crystals in the kitchen from alum, salt, and baking soda. Watch videos about topics that interest him on Brain Pop. Browse http://papertoys.com/ and download some projects to cut and fold.

The GREAT thing about homeschooling is that it can be driven by pleasure and passion. I had a great homeschooling moment this week. I was at my daughter’s choir, and there was a thirteen or fourteen year old girl sitting reading Les Miserables. She wasn’t very far through the book. Next to her was a copy of the Hunchback of Notre Dame. My first thought was, how great that the local schools are assigning actual literature. I pictured this poor girl having waited until the end of August to begin her reading, and needing slog through it with only weeks to go. Because I am that type of person (to the endless annoyance of my children) I started talking to her, asking if that were her summer reading. “No,” she said. “This is my second time reading it.” A little while later, her mom came in, and I put it together that this was one of the homeschooled kids in choir. She was reading Victor Hugo purely.for.pleasure.

THAT is why I homeschool.

As for screens, that is a tough one. I know some homeschooling families that allow unfettered access to all screens, and some families that don’t even have a TV (fewer of those). I believe every family has to come up with the solution that works for them. Over the years, what has evolved for us is a fairly limited use of screens. When my son was younger, I had a half an hour of TV per day rule. But I didn’t always apply it consistently. Some days, I would be enjoying the quiet so much, one half hour show would become two. And sometimes even three. And it wasn’t always the same half hour. It was usually when he asked, or when I had something I needed to do. Behavioral psych teaches us that the most reinforcing kind of reward is an intermittent one, and that is exactly what I was doing. I was intermittently rewarding him for asking for TV. So what did he do? Asked for TV all.the.time. He didn’t learn to self-occupy at all, because there was always the tantalizing possibility that he might get some TV. So I eventually went cold turkey on TV. Amazingly, it worked great, and he started getting better at playing by himself.

These days, (kids are 9 and 11), no TV is allowed during the day, except for the occasional educational documentary. They watch an hour of fun TV each night with me and my husband. Computers are for school. My kids both take online classes (CTY, Athena’s Advanced Academy, OnlineG3, EPGY, etc.). My son takes a video game design course online too. They can check e-mail or surf youtube for a limited time each day only. We don’t have time limits on that activity, just a common-sense limitation. Of course, sometimes we all need to rot a few brain cells, and there are times when one of the plays some computer game for fun. But if anything starts taking too much time, or it seems like someone is getting obsessed with something (myself included), I know we need to reevaluate. I finally downloaded Mineccraft onto the Ipad, but use is strictly limited to things like the long wait between games at chess tournaments. But that is just what works for us. You might strike a different balance.
Sorry this has been so long! I hope some of it has been helpful.

THIS is exactly why we've decided to take up the homeschooling challenge. over the summer, i realized that DD5 is now a super-competent reader (ps. HK - i think i remember you saying your girl really took off all in one go - and whoa, is it ever stunning to see it in person!) and is comfortably cruising through Gr. 3 math. so, uh... there's probably not too much i need to really worry about, curriculum-wise for a long, long time. so she picked The 15th Century as her Big Idea for the year and we're going to do a ton of stuff around that - we will do all the curriculum stuff, but given how quickly that stuff goes, even if it gets bumped a day or two like HK was saying, it'll get done.

long story short, i realized that because our kids learn so fast... we just have so much time: time to explore and make mistakes and have fun and detour and follow tangents - which is probably the true beauty of homeschooling, regardless of the kid!

if it takes a while to hit your stride, i think that's probably normal - i'll be willing to bet i'm right back here on this thread at the end of our first week in September! and fwiw, i do remember my mother, who was a brilliant teacher, coming home at the end of the first few weeks totally exhausted and kind of terrified - and it was like that every single year!

Thanks for all the great ideas, and thoughts. I feel better already (maybe because it is the weekend)! I will write more specific details and what works when I get some more time. But I especially like gabalyn's comments.

And I just want to reiterate, that I am not trying to do too much structure with him 1-2 hours a day, with everything else free play/explore time (it's just that so much of that turned into electronics time). I love the idea's of more kind of unschooling, BUT, I worry that if I don't get some structure into his life, that it will never take. For instance - our day has NEVER EVER had a alarm clock on it - it has always been wake up when you are ready, take plenty of time at breakfast, drop everything and go for a hike, etc. That is already how we are living - so I sense that I need to introduce structure, or he will never learn these skills and end up like me (which is rather oblivious to time and free wheeling). Needless to say, my husband, thinks I need to at least introduce him to a more structured life! So while I love all these unschooling ideas, and I agree that kids learn by play, and man oh man, the stuff that he has learned already in that mode makes me only think that if we just keep free wheeling, he will only be so much more ahead.... But if I don't apply a little more structure, he is never going to learn it.

That makes sense, but against that background, maybe even one hour of structured work feels like a lot? Two is as much as many homeschoolers ever seem to need to go to, at least in the "planned by a parent" stages! So maybe a gentle ramp up would be better, starting with ten minutes or a single task and increasing the regular daily amount by a few minutes every few weeks until you get to where you're comfortable? You have time, after all.

Phey, did you always plan to HS, or are you choosing it because school settings would be a rough fit for this particular child (e.g. he has behavioral quirks that would make that so)?

Especially if the latter, you may need to work through the issues you see (as you noted, following instructions, self-control around glowing boxes, etc.) one by one as you step into schooling. Working through issues is also teaching, so if progress on the behavioral pieces is all you get done for a while, that would seem fine.

DeeDee

Colinsmom, we have been attempting to work up to it since Jan with this in mind. We took a break for summer.

DeeDee- we always planned to HS no matter what. But I was open to other options. With food allergies at hand though, I know I personally couldn't send him to K and stay mentally sane. I also KNOW he would be insanely board and cause trouble. Though socially I think he would be fine and love it. But I don't think there is a possible decent placement for him. He would need multiple grade skips off the bat. I think he would struggle with adult authority if they were insisting he do way below level work. He would likely take on the role of class clown. He would also see himself able to take on adult choices. I don't think he is too quirky. Very social... But typical gifted quirky... Sensitive, argumentive, intense, but he's pretty socially smart. Most his school problems would be with authority and his challenging it as he would see himself as the superior reasoner.


PArt of issue I think is mentally he is ready for work at least four grade levels up. So my brain thinks he ought be ready for more formal type study... When reality is that he is five and somehow I need to present things that are usually presented in a more structured way, in a five to twelve year old way at the same time.
Pardon typing, hate anroid algorithms!

Phey are you also coming up against an asynchrony gap between his data input needs and his output ability? My DD is skipped, she's out putting near the top of her class by she really needs to be receiving input 1-2 grades ahead of that, she seems to learn best by for example receiving instruction on how to write that is well in advance of how she is capable of writing right now. She can't output at that level yet but she assimilates what she hears way faster than normal so that lesson won't be output today by maybe next quarter instead of a few years away. However focusing purely on the details she needs to correct right now just drives her nuts. I find this tricky to deal with myself and impossible to convey to her school.

Not much advice, as we start our homeschool adventure next week. But I already know that DS will be resistant to too much structure or teaching. He loves to learn. He does not always love to be taught. You have my sympathy!

HK, I love the idea of small notes, later pasted into a comp book. I will try this.

Something that has been successful (more or less) this summer is to post a summer-camp-style schedule for the week. Big piece of paper, divided into 5 columns. Lots of pictures, funny writing styles, multiple colors, stars, exclamation points, etc. Even if the content isn't the most exciting, at least the kids know what is happening during the week, and can look forward to something like a trip to a museum or playground. Granted, this wasn't school, but I plan to continue it into the school year and see how it goes.

I'm trying to figure this out as I go so I have no real advice to offer. We're not radical unschoolers who believe in no structure but if your son is learning well on his own, I wouldn't try to change that by insisting upon top-down learning when he is only five.

As for instilling structure in his life, I think the best way to do that is to live a structured life as a family. Easier said than done, I know but I think life becomes more manageable once it is well organized.

Last year when DS was 5 and in a play based K we homeschooled/afterschooled just for writing in order to keep him at grade level in that. It was a real struggle. We actually started off with more subjects and realized early on that being at a 4th grade level in some subject did not mean that he could be cajoled to become interested in a 5th grade level.

I don't have a lot of advice about other subjects but with the learning to write our OT (DS is very below average in fine motor skills) recommended at a K level that a single HWT page one to two days a week was plenty and that given how frustrating pencil use was for him that the other days be made more fun, such as forming letters with wood pieces, playdoh, drawing them in or with shaving foam, making them from food, etc. Even if he really already knew the shape that the consistency of daily exposure would be good in the long run. DS progressed very slowly it seemed and each day's work which ought to take about 5 minutes would range between 10 and 40 minutes for him. But now a year later he can write legible short words if he absolutely has to, meaning he's at an acceptable level from my perspective. Unless your DS has as poor motor skills as mine I would assume with a similar very small actual effort per week they would progress more quickly.

As DS progressed past the HWT K curriculum we've moved on to crosswords in his areas of interest... just google the interest and kids crossword. So that he was printing just a few words per day. Or I'd have him print out a label for his latest invention "Time machine" for example, and help him tape it on, and have that be the writing practice for the day.

We never got past battles about how long he had to work for or how much whining he was allowed to do before a time out. I hate to say there were almost as many meltdowns and tearful moments at the end of the year as at the beginning. We were firm and clear from the beginning and he resented it from the beginning. At least for my child there wasn't a period of testing or adjusting to the system that he got through after a few weeks.

With a child who really is bucking that hard against homeschool I would perhaps go more informal except in any areas that are truly deficient for age. Saving the seated time for those areas. And then also have one or two official activities a week that they must attend that you know they will find fun. For example perhaps there's a two hour block monday am and you do make a catapult that day. Something so that the anguish of the very small amount of forced labor the other days is balanced.

And then if you are going light on official homeschool time, additionally have an out of home goal oriented experience a couple of times a week: a group class of some kind where there are high expectations for them to behave well. A sport like karate, a language, a kids yoga class could work, etc.

Now at 6 I actually think my DS could handle a little more than the 10 or so minutes of unpleasant work he had to do last year.

I wouldn't worry that however much obedient seated time they are capable of at 5 is just going to be how it will be forever.

Bedtime math and this blog http://letsplaymath.net/2009/04/06/buddy-math/
both make a neat point about reading vs. other subjects. They say math, but I guess it applies to writing and everything else. Everybody loves reading, but many people hate math. They guess the reason this is might be that reading is relaxed and you do it in front of them way more than you ask them to do it. When you get to other subjects you kinda tell them, this is what you do- now do it and I'll tell you if you're wrong (although some people don't believe in telling kids they're wrong if they're trying). They suggest "you do a problem and I'll do a problem". I pre-homeschooled my kid for a few years. That's why I have more ideas than a kinder homeschooler usually would. I ask my kid and my husband bedtime math word problems when we're sitting around. He asks me word problems that he makes up. I do a lot of writing that he tells me to do, I also do the writing for the homework I assign while he just answers the questions. I know a lot of this can be done orally more easily, but I want him to see that the answers have to be written down, someone has to write the answers. I like how "The Well Trained Mind" and "Writing with Ease" by the same author says to take it easy on expecting the kids to write their answers through the second grade, unless the assignment is handwriting. Let them answer orally and you write it down. Only make them write it down sometimes for the practice. So for the seat time for Singapore math he sits with me and answers a few pages and I write it down. I write pretty slow so he's still sitting there getting his fifteen minutes of seat time in math. Sometimes he says, "You answer the questions and I'll write it down." That's fine too. If they were in a classroom they would not be answering every single question. Their classmates would answer some questions and that would be considered learning too.
Excuse typeos and lack of grammer, breaks, and formatting. Phone's out of battery so I'm going to hit post before editing for clarity.

Honestly-- parental instinct isn't just the most important thing here-- IMO, it's the ONLY thing.



I had that same sense with my own little termagant. Who is-- to be clear-- NOT a morning person.

Her resistance to instruction and authority has always been evident. "Oh, sure you can always tell {DD}. You just can't tell her much," as the saying goes around here.

She's still a nightmare for most teachers in a traditional setting. If I'd allowed an unschooling structure with her-- NO WAY could she go to college. And she needs to go to college, because her inclinations and interests (and dare I say-- her vocation) lie toward the hard sciences. That's not 'self-study' territory in a larger sense of wanting her to become independent and self-supporting as an adult.

Anyway. I think that if your gut is telling you that he needs an hour or two of externally imposed structure each day-- DO IT.

Agree with HK. I think of this like driving-- keep one eye on what's immediately in front of you, but one eye on what's further up the road toward the horizon. 5 years from now, your DS will need the skills to follow instructions and work within some structure in order to have access to the full range of opportunities he might want. Start building now the skills he'll need... and he'll get there.

DeeDee

ABSOLUTELY. I am so confused as to how to teach to his level and his age at the same time. I don't even know where to start in subjects such as Language Arts, where he is so wildly advanced, but I have to imagine he has holes somewhere. For example, somehow he learned phonics and usually can spell better than I can:), but there are some words he needs help with (rarely). Do I even bother doing spelling, or do I just figure that he spells as well as most 4-6th graders, so by the time he is actually that age, he will have probably got all the kinks out as well? His reading took off this year, stamina wise...and now he can read (latest Percy Jackson) no problem. But is he ready to really analyze it, or write a paper on it - no. So what do I do with it? We tried talking about it, took an online mult choice test to test comprehension. Do I move onto diagramming sentences - that doesn't sound like fun to me, will it to a 5 year old? I think the asynchronous age vs ability vs output is really mentally throwing me off. I am lost as what to teach let alone how to teach it. Math is easier to tackle for me, as it is just a list you can go down fairly orderly - but LA can spawn off in so many different directions, and you can be doing stuff much more advanced in it, but have bigger holes, so it seems.



Yes, this is what my gut (and my husband) is telling me! He needs structure and he needs to learn that just because he is intellectually gifted does not mean that he is the authority.

Someone else also said (Mana) that just implementing more family structure- bed time, meal time, bath time, etc. might be enough to start this process. I reluctantly agree, and DH wholeheartedly agrees! I know I need to do this - it is just a very weak area of mine. Just adding this structure to our home will make it so we can be more flexible with schooling. So thank you so much for this insight; DH double thanks you.

I really feel like I have received such thoughtful advice here, and it has helped me start really thinking through what the real issues are.
My game plan going forward is that I need to be MORE engaged, give more undivided attention, read to him more (I quit this year when he really took off reading chapter books on his own- but just bringing that back for the past three nights has been a big help). Realize that most learning in the past and in the future will likely be less formal, but that is okay, because he learns by play, and we don't have to be working down a checklist of math skills in order to be learning math. But we as parents should be modeling doing math and enjoying it as a mental game (I think we have been fairly good at this, but I really loved that suggestion and want to keep it forefront in my mind). And I really need to reel in the computer time, replace it with more outside time, and get a grip on this now, instead of waiting for 10 more years of ugly habit to sink in. This is going to be the hardest, as it will mean that I need to have less time to myself, and that I need to get more organized and more engaged! The challenge really seems to me now to be framed that I need to somehow teach myself structure! Looks like I am the one here in need of that lesson.

I haven't looked at any of the catapult links yet, but I will. So thanks for those as well. Well, time to get off the computer and get engaged with this wonderful kid!

You already have a lot of wonderful advice here... We are just entering our second HS year with a 6 year old with many of the issues you mentioned, a 4 year old who has my same learning style, loves to do stuff and sit and learn and a very very busy 2 year old who just likes to explore and break stuff.

I have found with Aiden (6) that then more I try push for hardcore structure the worse it got. I decided to do more unschooling and allowed him to choose what he wants to work on. He currently has 4 daily things he chose to work on (violin, maths, spelling, writing) and 2 other "just for fun things" (genetics and rock strata) and 1 lifeskill (rollerblading - don't ask, I didn't understand his answer! lol)

We mix with a LOT of unschoolers and from what I see of the older kids, they are great with setting their own routine. They will order their own time automatically simply because they are doing the things they really really want to be doing. And I can see as I have let Aiden do this, that in the first 5 months he had epic meltdowns because he forgot to do x or was too busy playing to do y. And I kept saying that it's okay, it's your choice how to spend your day - with a hug and a smile. (Even though inside I was screaming with a little "told ya so")... Now he is starting to realise and self-regulate already. Not every day, not all the time, but he is only 6 and I recon that if he can figure out on his own how to manage his own time to get everything done that needs to be, then he will OWN that for always. We have work periods in our day where I will say, okay Nathan wants to do maths now, which of yours do you want to do? WE work for about 15 minutes at a time and then have at least an hour break for lego, baking, walking, riding bikes and climbing trees, swimming, building puzzles, reading stories whatever. So our day is spread out and feels lazy and relaxing and I get some of my own work done inbetween as well as basic tidying up.

It works well for us.

best of luck as you find your feet!

If he is really having a rough day I help him make a list of what he wants to do that day and he ticks it off as we go (including brushing teeth and watching specific shows)

Screen time - I limit to 40-60 minutes per day only. 50% of that is "learning screen time" and the rest is whatever they want to do on the PC. They have subscriptions to reading eggs, dreambox, a typing program and timez attack and a variety of learning based games. They have city builder series games, plants vs. zombies and wizard 101 for "fun time". Sometimes they google their current favourite show and play those games.

They can watch one mythbusters or "how its made" with DH or the occasional national geographic type documentary. Friday nights is family movie night.

If it's hard to get going in the morning then start the morning slowly - that's the joy of homeschooling. I have come to realise that there is no right or wrong way to do this: all that matters is that we are having fun and laughing together, because that means learning will happen.

The million-dollar question here is, "Have you read it?"

I began teaching literary comprehension/analysis to DD when she was 5, and I was still reading Harry Potter to her. I'd stop and ask a lot of questions... "Why do you think he's doing this? How is this different from the movie?" In this way, I was leading her into comprehension and analysis, even though she didn't know it. To her, it just seemed we were talking about the book, which she was more than happy to do.

So, my advice is, read the book, and then talk about it with him.


Assuming you've already covered the various parts of speech (noun, verb, adjective, article, preposition, etc.), then yes, because it's a necessary skill to understanding the language.

My DD did it when she was six, and she enjoyed it.

Sigh. Sitting at work feeling so jealous. While I completely get that homeschooling would be very challenging (for the parent) it also sounds so lovely to have so much time for playing and building and exploring and just being with the kids. Of course as I imagine it I am picturing being able delve into things at DD6 level of interest but I can't picture how you all do this if you have a younger child at home. I could see DD2 (almost 3) making homeschool very challenging indeed. Of course the biggest challenge for homeschooling would be living without my paycheck and unfortunately I can't get past that one. Oh well. We will just make the best of what we can do.

Dude, I guess I get a million bucks! Yes, I preread it to make sure it was appropriate.
Coveln, yes it is wonderful, but taxing it its own way too. But I wouldn't change it for the world.

me too, Phey. i feel so lucky i transitioned to freelancing years ago - i'd never have been able to consider homeschooling otherwise, given the hours i was working. ha - but i guess if i'd kept my old job, i'd never even have been able to have the kid in the first place!