Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Newbie here. What's next?

My son is six years old and was recently placed in our public schools gifted program.

He was given the COGAT and scored V 97%, Q 96%, NV 97%. His composite score was 99%. His spring MAP scores are 181 in math and 179 in reading. The gifted specialist tells me it is unusual for a child to get these scores on the COGAT, although I'm sure that's not the case for the viewers of this forum!

I'm new to all of this and I'm not sure what to do for my son. I was frustrated all year with kindergarten with countless coloring pages. Now with first grade, I'm trying to be patient, but his homework today was making tally marks, simple addition and counting. The second page required him to read color words as fast as he could. This was clearly not a challenge for him at all.

I don't think my son is ready for algebra, but I'm certain he's capable of more than what he is bringing home. The fact is, I don't know what he's capable of and I don't where to start.

Do I have additional testing done? If so, what tests? Do I meet with his teacher? What is reasonable for me to ask of her? I know that it's impossible for her to meet the needs of every student, but I hate the idea of him spending the day counting to 200 at school when he's asking me about adding negative numbers at home.

Thanks for your insight.

Hello NikiHarp,
Welcome to the board! The national norms for the NWEA MAP test are in Appendix B here: RIT Scale Norms Your DS6 (dear son on this board) did very well, 96th percentile for reading and 95th for math for kindergartners. His CogAT scores seem to back up his achievement scores. Hard to say if that's unusual for the folks on this board - the CogAT sometimes has troubles identifying GT kids!

So your son is currently in the gifted program? What does that mean at your school? Is it fulltime with other kids working at his level? Or is it a pullout? Is your son complaining about things being too easy?

If he's in the fulltime GT program, and you feel he's not getting the chance to learn new things the majority of the time, it might be a good idea to meet with the teacher just to let her know how your son is feeling about the work, and ask what sort of material is coming up. Is this the start of the school year? It may be that she's getting to know where all the kids fit, and there may be some grouping later. (You should ask that too.) She may be doing some in-class assessments that you aren't aware of. I would start with the teacher, then move up if nothing comes of that.

Thanks for your help. The gifted program at our school is a pull-out program, about 40 minutes a day.

We are entering our second full week of school here. Perhaps I need to be patient and let the teacher get her bearings and then meet with her to gain a better understanding of what he will be learning in her classroom.

My son has the same problem with homework. Do check before you object though that the homework is indicative of class work level. Some teachers have this theory that doing easy homework includes fluency and confidence.

Hmmm. If it's only a pullout, then I will add more. First grade can be dreadfully horrible for kids who already know how to read and do basic math, as that is usually what they teach in first. Can you volunteer or otherwise go observe in the classroom to get a feel for what's going on?

The GT teacher may be a helpful advocate too. Maybe you can ask the GT teacher if there is additional stuff going on in the classroom for the GT kids (e.g., differentiation, clustering).

As for how long to wait for the teacher to get to know your kiddo, that depends on what type of kid you have. Mine would have hidden his abilities to blend in. He doesn't like to stand out and does not like to speak in class. So the teacher wouldn't have know about his abilities until much later. Also depends on how much your kiddo is complaining. If he complains every day, that's a big problem and I'd want to meet with the teacher sooner rather than later.

When/if you meet with the teacher, you will want specific examples of why you think your kiddo might need some more challenging work. E.g., what sort of math have you seen him doing, what books is he reading. Is he allowed to pick out his own books for free reading? Check out the classroom library, too -- if there's nothing at his level, ask the teacher if she minds if you donate some books.


These are just random ideas, as you haven't yet described in particular you would like. Before you meet with the teacher, have a clear view of what exactly you are hoping for. Can you give more details about what you'd like here? Then we can try to help you brainstorm. Lots of us have been there/done that. (In our story, we ended up getting a grade skip for our DS, using the Iowa Acceleration Scales to give the school objective evidence as to why the skip was a good idea.)

Thank you both for your help.

I've just completed volunteer training and I'm working with the teacher now to get on a regular schedule for volunteering, so that's in the works.

I emailed the GT teacher for additional information on his CogAT scores. I've only received the percentiles and I'd like the raw data, although I'm not sure if that information would be helpful or not. I asked her if an IQ test had been done and she replied that the CogAT was an IQ test. This gives me pause because everything I've read says the CogAT is not an IQ test.

The GT kids receive two enrichment activities in the regular classroom daily. What I'm learning now is that enrichment and acceleration are two very different things. I'd like to see him challenged with second grade math and reading if that is his instructional level.

My son is very social and loves school. He is enthusiastic about answering questions in class and got in "trouble" last year for answering out-of-turn. I don't think he complains about any of it because he likes being right and it's easy to be right when everything you encounter is easy. At some point, he has to bump up against a challenge and learn how to navigate that.

St Pauli Girl, thanks for asking questions. You've helped me clarify what I actually want.

Hi NikiHarp,
Welcome! I am new here too, and have a DD6 that just started 1st grade.
We are in similar situations, so I'll share a bit about what we did and are trying to do.

I too wasn't sure that DD was being challenged. She started reading in Pre-K, so she had a pretty good foundation to build on. Our DD was in pull-out ELP for 30 minutes a week for reading with a few others. I began to do more reading about giftedness and decided to see if we could get her tested. The school gave her the CoGAT as well. After we received the results (on the last day of school). We had the GoGAT and her reading level, but not much else to help with a plan.

We finally a wonderful child psychologist who works with the local school districts and is well versed in GT education. She gave her the WISC-IV. Her results were good, especially the verbal (which was also her highest category on the CoGAT). The psychologist went over the results with us and talked a bit about what sort of educational setting (project based learning or IB) might be best for our DD.

While the WISC highlighted what we already suspected, I think that it will help us with future education planning. I don't think anyone took us seriously last year....ELP doesn't formally start until 3rd grade, and no one seemed to be concerned about where DD was at other than me. I am hopeful that this year will be better. We have yet to meet with the Principal, teacher and ELP teacher. I'm anxious about this year already because they've changed literacy programs and now are required to have 90 minutes "in classroom" reading time. Thus, ELP pullout may not be in the cards. However, I'm not sure how they can meet the needs of DD who left Kindergarten reading at level "T".

We are in the process of applying to the Davidson Young Scholars program in hopes that it offers additional support/information and insight.

Sorry to be so wordy:-)

Yes, enrichment is a disappointment in so many ways. Sure, it's usually fun, but if so, why can't all the kids do it? It seems to me there is no way to avoid bitterness from others whose kids are not in GT if you go the enrichment way.


Although your son's personality sounds quite the opposite of mine (mine won't speak up in class), their issues sound the same. We started our journey with advocacy because we also felt that our kiddo should learn how to be challenged, even fail, so he could learn how to learn -- before college. I think you need to ask about more achievement testing at this point (unless your school relies strongly on the MAP scores for placement, which is unlikely), to see what level your son is working at. If it turns out that most his academic peers are a grade up, I would ask if your kiddo could move up a grade.

It's harder when the kids appear happy and don't complain at school. You have to walk a fine line so you don't insult the teacher. They really don't see what you see -- you need to help them. What convinced our DS's local school was a combo of MAP and achievement tests the school psychologist gave. We had private IQ testing done before school, which opened the door to discussions, but most teachers have no idea what IQ scores mean and they want to get to know your kid on their own.

The CogAT is not an IQ test. It is a sort of OK predictor of how well a kid will do in a GT program.

This is so helpful to me. My husband very graciously pointed out yesterday that I need to stop being apologetic about our son's abilities. I'm very anxious about approaching the teacher or administration. Part of that is because I respect what they do so much and the other part is because of the stories I've heard from others.

The bottom line is that my son needs more at school and, as his parent, it's my job to work toward that on his behalf.

Thank you all for sharing your experiences. It helps to hear from people farther down the road.

Here is a helpful advocacy book that Davidson created. http://print.ditd.org/young_scholars/Guidebooks/Davidson_Guidebook_Advocating.pdf

I think if you go into advocacy with the idea that you are part of a team with the school, asking for help and offering help, you can advocate more smoothly. If don't have much time right now, but I'll try to post some more resources later.