Gifted Bulletin Board

Welcome to the Gifted Issues Discussion Forum.

We invite you to share your experiences and to post information about advocacy, research and other gifted education issues on this free public discussion forum.
CLICK HERE to Log In. Click here for the Board Rules.

Links


Learn about Davidson Academy Online - for profoundly gifted students living anywhere in the U.S. & Canada.

The Davidson Institute is a national nonprofit dedicated to supporting profoundly gifted students through the following programs:

  • Fellows Scholarship
  • Young Scholars
  • Davidson Academy
  • THINK Summer Institute

  • Subscribe to the Davidson Institute's eNews-Update Newsletter >

    Free Gifted Resources & Guides >

    Who's Online Now
    0 members (), 375 guests, and 16 robots.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
    Newest Members
    jkeller, Alex Hoxdson, JPH, Alex011, Scotmicky12
    11,444 Registered Users
    June
    S M T W T F S
    1
    2 3 4 5 6 7 8
    9 10 11 12 13 14 15
    16 17 18 19 20 21 22
    23 24 25 26 27 28 29
    30
    Previous Thread
    Next Thread
    Print Thread
    Page 1 of 2 1 2
    #164587 08/16/13 03:28 PM
    Joined: Oct 2012
    Posts: 178
    M
    moomin Offline OP
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    M
    Joined: Oct 2012
    Posts: 178
    gone

    Last edited by moomin; 08/09/14 09:41 AM. Reason: gone
    Joined: Aug 2010
    Posts: 3,428
    U
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    U
    Joined: Aug 2010
    Posts: 3,428
    I think it sounds like a pretty good conversation EXCEPT for the bit about an immersion program not being workable for a child with anxiety. I don't like that, because of what it indicates about someone who would say that.

    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 2,035
    P
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    P
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 2,035
    It is wonderful that you can be there for her so much but I can't see any teacher I have ever met agreeing to that. I don't know your circumstances but might it not be better to keep her at home and homes hook her after your morning class? 27 kids and no aide sounds less than ideal though 30-35 kids with volunteer parent help was the norm when I was at school and it can be done, though an extra language must make it more complex.


    Joined: Apr 2010
    Posts: 2,498
    D
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    D
    Joined: Apr 2010
    Posts: 2,498
    Originally Posted by moomin
    Then the principal slowly said, I think I'm going to have to reconsider what I was going to advise you to do.

    That's already good. Listening is good.

    Originally Posted by moomin
    She then pivoted, and took me totally by surprise and asked, is your daughter explosive, or oppositional?...

    The principal then surprised me again and asked, does she have any sensory issues?...

    The principal indicated that DD's Kindergarten class would have 27 students in it, and no aid.

    That last bit is the part where it goes wrong IMO. FIRST you determine needs, then services. If your DD needs an aide to function in the LRE, that need determines services, not the staff that the principal happens to have on hand.

    Of course, you have to do the school's eval process and write an IEP to decide appropriate services and get them in place. Or does DD already have an IEP?

    Originally Posted by moomin
    I indicated that I was willing to be on campus for the last 3 hours and 45 minutes of each day, after I finish teaching my own morning classes.

    In your shoes, I wouldn't want to do that. (a) it's the school's obligation to provide an appropriate education; (b) you don't want your DD or the school to be depending on you for that.

    FWIW, I found that my occasional volunteering in the kindergarten was *more* dysregulating for my DS-now-11 than just being in there himself.

    Originally Posted by moomin
    The principal then replied that she was going to have to reconsider her teacher assignment for my daughter, and continued by suggesting that we set up a student support team in the first weeks of school to address differentiation and DD's special needs.

    I think that's sensible.

    Originally Posted by moomin
    To me, the above reads as boilerplate. To my mother, also a teacher with three decades of experience, it sounded like boilerplate as well. Mind you, it's a good response, but nobody on this campus has worked with my daughter, and there's lots of room for them to say that they can't serve her needs.

    Is this a public school? Again, she's entitled to FAPE.

    To me, it doesn't sound like boilerplate-- it sounds like the beginning of a process. It sounds as though the principal was listening and gathering information to think with. To me, that's promising.

    Originally Posted by moomin
    Meanwhile, my wife is doing the happy dance because she somehow expected our first conversation to go horribly wrong and for DD to be booted out of school in September.

    Booting a kid with a documented disability (anxiety should count) is harder than booting a non-disabled kid. Search "manifestation determination" on wrightslaw.com.

    DeeDee

    Joined: Apr 2010
    Posts: 2,498
    D
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    D
    Joined: Apr 2010
    Posts: 2,498
    Originally Posted by moomin
    They cast the ED net comically broadly:

    The student exhibits any of the following characteristics to a degree that adversely affects the child's educational experience.
    Any inability to learn which cannot be explained by intellectual factors.
    Any inability to build or maintain satisfactory relationships with peers or teacher.
    Any inappropriate types of behavior or feelings under normal circumstances.
    A general mood of unhappiness or depression.
    A tendency to develop anxieties or fears associated with school.

    The student is then designated ED and removed entirely from their campus and placed in a "behavior" program. There are no "behavior" related services available outside these designated SDCs... so while an IEP might prevent DD from being booted from the DISTRICT it would immediately cause her the be booted from her SCHOOL.

    Moomin, where on earth are you? (rhetorical question if you don't want to answer).

    Yes, that list is inappropriate in the extreme. Taking a child who is not ED and lumping them into an ED placement is very damaging.

    If you are in the US, your child is entitled to an APPROPRIATE educational placement-- i.e. meeting her needs. You can bring your private professionals to bear on the question of what is appropriate; it has to take all strengths and weaknesses into account. They are not allowed to place her in an inappropriate setting.

    In your shoes, I'd find and engage an educational advocate. It helps to have someone who knows the ins and outs to advise you.

    Sheesh.

    DeeDee

    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 882
    M
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    M
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 882
    Originally Posted by moomin
    They cast the ED net comically broadly:

    The student exhibits any of the following characteristics to a degree that adversely affects the child's educational experience.
    Any inability to learn which cannot be explained by intellectual factors.
    Any inability to build or maintain satisfactory relationships with peers or teacher.
    Any inappropriate types of behavior or feelings under normal circumstances.
    A general mood of unhappiness or depression.
    A tendency to develop anxieties or fears associated with school.

    That's not your district's doing though; that's straight out of IDEA's definition of emotional disturbance:

    idea


    Last edited by Mana; 08/16/13 06:49 PM. Reason: fixing link
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 882
    M
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    M
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 882
    Originally Posted by moomin
    We're just trying to ensure DD is not transfered out of her current school.

    Moomin, is her current Spanish immersion school a charter school?

    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 2,035
    P
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    P
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 2,035
    Sounds like a nightmare scenario. I would do every thing I could to home school. There are two of you and you seem to have free time so can you juggle your work and other committments?

    Joined: Aug 2010
    Posts: 3,428
    U
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    U
    Joined: Aug 2010
    Posts: 3,428
    How is that least restrictive environment?? I mean, I'm no expert here, but wow!

    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 882
    M
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    M
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 882
    ED fully self-contained classroom often becomes the default placement for children with IEP who pose danger to others. However, parents have the right to disagree with district's proposed change of placement and until the dispute is resolved, the stay-put provision is in effect. The only way she could land in the ED setting over her parents' objection is through due process except for a few extreme exceptions including serious bodily harm to others. This is why the recent downward spiral in the K readiness class was worrisome. Threatening another student with a pair of scissors is just one of those things that raises a red flag.

    I personally believe that IDEA gives parents a lot of power and tools to seek out FAPE for their child. It's been a while since I've sat down and read the relevant case law and regulations so by all means, don't take my words for it

    For more details:

    IDEA discipline

    IDEA discipline Q & A

    more on discipline


    Last edited by Mana; 08/16/13 10:25 PM. Reason: clarity
    Page 1 of 2 1 2

    Moderated by  M-Moderator, Mark D. 

    Link Copied to Clipboard
    Recent Posts
    11-year-old earns associate degree
    by indigo - 05/27/24 08:02 PM
    psat questions and some griping :)
    by SaturnFan - 05/22/24 08:50 AM
    2e & long MAP testing
    by aeh - 05/16/24 04:30 PM
    Classroom support for advanced reader
    by Xtydell - 05/15/24 02:28 PM
    Employers less likely to hire from IVYs
    by mithawk - 05/13/24 06:50 PM
    Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5