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"Because I can" seems to be a reasonable explanation.

I would likely act that way in a room full of psychologists, too.

Hmmm...

this is the child that you have suspected is manipulating the adults around her, yes?

I might let her "overhear" a conversation between you and her other parent... one which LAMENTS the fact that she still has so much to learn from Kindergarten readiness....{sigh} clearly, more time-- maybe even MUCH more time is going to be spent in this environment... until she can gain mastery over her responses in that environment. Because, of course, she still has so much.to.learn.from.it. If you like, add in your distress that your other specialists don't seem to understand how to help her... but emphasize again that until she can better "master" this setting, you're not going to be moving her to a "more challenging" environment any time soon. After all, if she can't manage this... it seems that she still has much to learn-- best to do it now before increasing the demands on her, certainly. The trick is HELPING her to do that. Right?


Then see if she reins in the behavior on her own or not.

I'm guessing that if your hunch is right, it's at least partially voluntary/discretionary behavior. She's turning it on and off situationally. Freaky, isn't it? (Yeah-- my DD can do this, too. I have learned to just ignore her initial outbursts or she'll suck me in. I'm matter-of-fact with her, and a little cool, even... detached. Which strikes unwitting observers-- sometimes even DH-- as cruel. But anything else plays into the drama, I've learned. The key is for the behavior to have NEGATIVE-- actively NEGATIVE/counterproductive-- consequences.)

It's not really about manipulating HER-- it's about seeing what she does if you change your response to her.


Why is it that they are saying this? Do they give a reason?

I'm just throwing this out there, but--the CBT and OT work with her one on one, right? And they probably instinctively adjust to and respond to her ability. K Readiness is a group environment, and one that is obviously not tailored to what she can do.

Ive already volunteered my inexpert opinion that the kindy readiness is counter productive and to pull her out - basically because of what Nautigal said. She's doing it "because I can" because she's the smartest person in the room and running rings around them.

BUT I am intrigued to hear what might come of HKs suggestion.

Yes, the K readiness class has been counterproductive to say the least but I'm with HM on this. I'll make her earn her way out. If you pull her out because she escalated, next time she wants to get out of something, she'll think defiance, aggression, and acting crazy would do the trick and she might keep on pushing until she or someone else gets hurt.

Based on what you've shared here, her behaviors do not sound like a cry for help to me. If they did, I'd say pull her out immediately but honestly, she sounds very much in control.

What is interesting is that your DD seems highly capable of meeting behavioral expectations in all contexts; she was happy at her previous preschool for a little while and she lasted six months (?) in this K readiness class before she deteriorated. Any clues to what the trigger(s) might have been?

Re: HK's idea-- what if she's doing this because she's anxious about kindergarten? IMO you can't assume an anxious kid-- even a PG one-- wants to "move ahead."

Any weird behavior that happens this close to a transition may be about the transition. She may be trying to derail the transition to K. I'd talk with the private professionals who know her best (not the school staff, who clearly don't have a good read on DD) before making any move as a result of the behavior.

DeeDee

MON's insights are great. As usual...

DeeDee

I have totally BTDT on this. My DS was extremely (extremely!) difficult at that age. What I can say (from my new place 5 years further down the road) is that children grow and change, and you must count on yourself and DD-- it is not going to be this way forever. Yes, there are problems to solve here, but being terrified is going to cost you energy without helping DD. My recommendation: accept what it is today and consistently choose ways of responding that maximize DD's learning.

Can you call the school where she will be doing K, and schedule an emergency meeting, preferably with your private therapy staff in attendance? These school folks need preparation on how to respond to whatever comes. They may be able to do a good job with it if you prepare them.


What would constitute "real trouble" from her POV?

It took my DS a long time to grasp that he was scaring the heck out of other kids, and that it was affecting his ability to have friends. That's real trouble, but not something a kindergarten-age person can grasp right away.

The principal's office felt like respite to him-- so that was no help. One has to design the consequences carefully so that the results of good or bad behavior are real TO HER.


How does she talk about it? Positively? Anxiously? What are *her* expectations?

With our DS, we have often been able to leverage these milestone/transitional life moments into positive behavior change. "Here's how kindergartners behave." "Now you're a Scout, here are the new rules." "We're going to do it this way in 2013." For him, the "new era" feeling can help him rethink his patterns-- if we provide lots of positive support for that.

Hang in there.

DeeDee

Yup-- all very familiar here, too.

Especially the part where you kind of have to trust your gut, and not all of the so-called "experts" (and boy, OH BOY, does everyone have an opinion about parenting a difficult/stubborn child).

Even DH listened in disbelief at some of the things that those earnest conversations with DD revealed when she was this age. It made me doubt my sanity that my 4yo could very calmly and rationally point out how easy it was to manipulate adults.

Do I think that scared her? Maybe. I'm not really sure.


I do know that kids like this basically have to solve their OWN behavioral problems (which can be legion)-- the key is learning that parents are seriously immovable forces. Well, at least it was for my DD.

I also agree with DeeDee, though-- it won't help to spend your energy being scared for her, as natural as that response is.

I think that I probably would nag her to open up and come clean, though. That did really help ME when I thought I was going to lose my mind. It made ME way less scared to know that the behaviors were completely under DD's control.

I had to rely on my gut, though, to KNOW when DD was not being truthful with me, and to gently but firmly say "Hmmmm-- that's interesting, but are you sure that's actually true? Seems like {evidence/anecdote/or just gut feeling} says otherwise. What do you think about that?"

Pick the parent that can get inside her head best. That's my advice.