Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional New and Confused about My Child - Updates & New Q

I know this is probably early to be posting, but I received yesterday the initial evaluation of my daughter's cognitive testing from the district psychologist and need some help before we have the meeting to discuss her needs.

DAS-2, her scores were presented 2 ways - one "standard," the other an "nonstandard" administration. The scores vary significantly, with the "nonstandard" all being in the 90s, notably 99+% on the Nonverbal reasoning cluster.

The nonstandard was given because of the psychologist observations of my daughter in her math class and answering "challenge" questions correctly.

However, on the test my daughter was unable to answer "easy" questions, but able to answer the more difficult nonverbal reasoning questions. There are several notes included that differences in scores of a magnitude such as these are seen in only 0.5% of samples and another one was only seen in 5%.

Does this mean that she suffers from a learning disability, such as dyslexia that holds her back?

My hunch is that she is very smart as sort of born out by this test, but that some area of deficiency is holding her back in other areas. In school, she is "grade level" in reading, but the school is concerned because her spelling is so bad, and follows none of the rules being learned. She is "the best in the class" at verbally picking up phenomes, but can seem to translate them on paper.

Any thoughts?

I have a meeting June 3 to discuss results and intervention, but am just sort of confused at this point about what to advocate for.

The end of the evaluation suggests a vision and visual-motor evaluation -- and to visit this site for parents of "those whose cognitive skills are significantly more well developed of most children their age."

I would suggest an evaluation by a neuropsychologist and possibly a developmental optometrist to check for visual processing issues. See www.covd.org

Inconsistencies in ability and achievement can indicate LD or vision issues.

I'd suggest going to the meeting on June 3 and seeing what the district has to say and offer - and I would most likely also follow up with a private neurospychologist eval. I might wait on the developmental optometrist until you find out whether or not the school district will adminster the visual-motor integration test - and I'd also want to see the subtest scores (if you can get them) on her DAS-2 to see if there appear to be significant discrepancies on that that could be caused by a vision challenge. If the numbers point in the direction of a challenge with visual tasks, I'd follow up with a developmental optometrist eval.

I also wouldn't panic if it seems like a ton of things to research all at once - it does sound like she has some type of potential LD-ish challenge (or if it's vision, it might only be that!)... but sorting through everything often takes time.

Re dyslexia, there are additional tests beyond standard ability vs achievement testing that are run to determine if a child's reading challenges are due to dyslexia. If you'd like, I can post a list later today of the tests my dd was given in her dyslexia screening. If you get to the meeting and dyslexia or a reading challenge is suggested, I'd ask for a thorough battery of testing to get to the root of it before a curriculum is recommended.

This is also just my impression, but poor spelling can come with what seem like a lot of different challenges. My dysgraphic ds is a horrible speller - when he's writing, but he is able to easily memorize words for spelling tests and he can recall the spelling for a spelling test later in time. My dd who has a challenge that impacts reading ability (difficulty retaining sound-symbol association) can also ace spelling tests *IF* she studies really really really hard - and then within a few days time she forgets how to spell the words. Her spelling also breaks down significantly when she's writing.

Last thing, back to the neuropsych eval - having two children with LD challenges and one child who struggled significantly with reading in early elementary, only to discover she had a vision challenge - the private neuropsych eval was THE most helpful piece of anything we've done to understand my children's challenges. The evals we've had through school are filtered through school - they are looking at academics only, and are fitting what they find into what they have the ability to address. The neuropsych eval is going to take a detailed developmental history, give you a diagnosis (if there is one), make recommendations on therapies above and beyond what your child qualifies for at school, be able to give you specific recommendations re who to see or not see, give you advice about school, and give you advice looking forward in time (not just this school year) as well as advice looking at your child's *life* - not just school. We've advocated much more proactively and also pitched in much more ourselves for our kids with LDs because we had the neuropsych advice - and it's been really important for them - as much as it would have been nice to let the school take care of everything, they wouldn't have made as much progress as quickly as they did if we'd left it to the schools. And if you do find there is an LD or other issue, you'll be glad you discovered it early and began remediations/accommodations early - because kids who's LDs go undiagnosed and don't receive help begin to suffer blows to their self-esteem because *they* don't understand why they are or feel different than their peers.

Hope that made sense - let us know how your meeting goes.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Thank you for your responses.

I have to say this has already been a frustrating road.

She was evaluated by a neurodevelopmental pediatrician - who first suggested dyslexia, and suggested district testing.

She is actually in an All Kind of Minds private school, with a new dyslexia program, so I think her school is fairly well positioned to provide her with the kind of education she will need to stay engaged. She already thinks she's not that smart, despite some amazing things that she does/thinks. She is always focused on the negative - such as that she is not as good of a reader/speller as others in her class.

The school recommended private testing, but at a quote of $3500 just for the test, I wanted to wait to see what the public district testing revealed. (We are already paying so much for private school, and we are not wealthy!)

I talked to our health insurance and they said no therapies or diagnostic tests for LD are covered because of No Child Left Behind, which requires districts to provide all therapies and testing. Yet, the school district told me dyslexia is a medical diagnosis and one that they don't make. Then after hours talking to various people, I feel like I hit a brick wall, and decided to wait to see what the initial cognitive evaluation revealed.

So, yes, any guidance on particular tests to get to diagnose dyslexia would be helpful.

Her spatial subtest score was the lowest (39%), even on the standard scoring method she was not nearly that low on any other component, and that was a score that was not perceived as a gap between standard and nonstandard administration.

She is in 2nd grade and 8. She learned to count and verbally spell and picked up everything pretty quickly. She was biting letters out of toast and building words/letters out of cheese sticks, cereal, brooms, and other found objects at 2, and I really thought she would read early as I did. But she hit a wall and just stayed there until the formal instruction when she reached school age, and now at her school where there are many high achievers, since she is only grade level, she is in more of a remedial reading group doing the Orton-Gillingham method.

The most heartbreaking part is having a child who has so many strengths and gifts, but beats herself up over the ones she does not have. She is super analytical and really harps on these issues.

I cross posted this on testing, but didn't get any responses, so maybe this previous thread is a better fit.


First, the test scores, then my questions.
DAS II
GCA 122 93% NON STANDARD
GCA – 109 – 78% STANDARD
Non Verbal Composite – 120 – 91% - NON STANDARD
Non Verbal Composite – 103 – 58% - STANDARD
Cluster
Verbal 120 – 91%
Non-Verbal – 138 - 99% - NON STANDARD AMINISTRATION
Verbal - 107 – 68% - STANDARD ADMINISTRATION
Spatial – 96 – 39%
Subtest & Quantitative Reasoning T-Score – 90 (no idea what %)

WRMT III
Reading Skills
Automatic naming – 141 – 99%
Letter Identification – 120 – 99%
ALL Other scores 101-120 – 50-80%

My DD was evaluated by public school system for suspicion of dyslexia by her private school and a neurophysician. Some results above.

They ended up doing a partial non-standard administration of DAS II due to observations of her abilities. On some of the other skill-based tests - they observed she had a few very high scores and her working memory was pretty high according to them 141, and much above grade level, but fails at some simpler tasks. As you can see, the results vary significantly.

I met to go over the results with the team yesterday. The bottom line is that DD8, is performing at or above averages on all skill assessment tests – they did math, speech/language/hearing, reading, and cognitive ability, so she does not qualify as LD, and no specialized services will be offered, and no further evaluation recommended except private developmental optometrist.
Private school says get her reading tutoring over the summer – she is performing just below level they’d like for an entering 3rd grader, and don’t worry about getting more tests.

The thing is based on the variance on the DAS and clear abilities in some areas, isn’t this a clear sign of LD or something holding her back? Why would her scores be so varied? I think it looks like a different kid might be taking on the tests. What should I do next for testing, besides developmental vision exam? She is feeling very stupid – and I just want to help her to get on the right path, and the best way for her to learn and shine.

What was in the neuro's report? Typically they will give you a very thorough report with suggested next steps and referrals...

It was a psychologist through the school system and the report said that her tests results were unusual, and to seek a developmental vision assessment, but it was frustrating that they would not give me more detail beyond the results of the test, which did have some narrative, mainly about the differences between standard and non-standard administration - and that she was "bright" and should not have difficulty in her current curriculum. It was a special needs assessment, so it was focused on whether she needed specialized instruction.

Ah, I would seek a private evaluation then. You need a proper full report by someone who understands both giftedness and what a LD looks like in a gifted kid.

Tara, I think that the reason you didn't get many responses on your other post is that not many of us here are familiar with the DAS-II. I personally still think that if there is any way you can get a private neuropsych eval that would be the thing to do next. We were able to have our neuropsych eval covered through our insurance - I think you can frame this as medical, the trick is for you not to make the diagnosis yourself - as in, you're asking (I think) right now for an eval for reading difficulties (since you suspect dyslexia). We had a medical referral from our dr to the neuropsych because of anxiety etc - the issues were perceived, by our dr, to be medical, even though ultimately the anxiety was clearly due to an undiagnosed LD.

Next thing, about dyslexia - from what I've seen of most school districts and most reading specialists, there is a very clear definition of what defines dyslexia and it does depend on being below a low bar (here it's something like 25th percentile) on certain types of testing. That said, that doesn't mean that an EG child who has an average score on a specific reading skill isn't challenged with reading, just as it doesn't mean that a typical kid who is scoring at the 26th percentile in whatever skill it is isn't also dyslexic. The percentile bars are used by schools to determine eligibility for services (and even those can be argued, if you have a clear idea re the way your child is challenged. The more important thing perhaps is that there are *many* types of reading challenges, not just traditional dyslexia.

Would you mind posting the other WRMT-II subtest scores? I'm curious where she scored 50th percentile.

Also, would you mind reminding us what challenges you see your dd having with academics? Why was she tested to begin with? I'm sorry if you've posted that already and I've forgotten!

Best wishes,

polarbear

Thank you so much for replying! I feel utterly alone in this! I can't talk to friends or anyone to ask advice because I feel like it's bragging, and the district wasn't much help! DH love him so - but feels like we are overanalyzing her - and is basically saying to me she's bright - I knew that!

She was tested for
- letter reversals
- abysmal spelling, but inconsistent, she'll spell a difficult word correctly on a spelling test, but spell something like "done" as "don" or "dun". Also, she doesn't consistently remember how to spell a learned word.
- Phonemic awareness orally, but inability to translate to writing
- Poor sense of punctuation and syntax
- Below expectation achievement in reading (again not exactly where they want her to be, but in actuality "grade level")

WRMTIII Test subscores:

Phonological Awareness - 114 - 82%
Rapid Automatic Naming - 141 - 99%
Letter Identification - 120 - 99%
Word Attack - 105 - 63%
Word Identification - 103 - 58% - it notes she could read amazement and spectacular, but not mechanic, prudent, wounded
Word Comprehension - 110 - 75%
Passage comprehension - 102 - 55%
Word identification - 103 - 58%
Oral fluency - 109 - 73%
Listening - 101 - 53%